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[Jise]

The bible counsels one not to even "eat" with people who are sexually immoral, slanders, swindlers, etc. But Bill KNott's essay seems to say otherwise as does the Adventist Church which is lax on discipline and verifying allegations of wrongdoing.

I've seen the repercussions of "failing" to expel the wicked - immoral one - and of even "eating" with sexually immoral, or slanderous, or etc. people.

If you associate with these people - they are wicked - they will lie about you.  This yeast also spoils the bunch - because of the tolerance for this evil and the self selective, self serving lack of discipline within the Adventist Church - much of Adventist Fellowship has  been spoiled by this wicked yeast - and is unholy - simply by fellowshipping with certain Adventists you risk being slandered, cheated, lied about, approached in an unchristian manner - and you risk the GC defending this.  I've not encountered this in other christian denominations.  The Adventist Church is characterized by a malice and wicked backbiting and malicious witnesses and a dishonesty that many of the "conservatives" are only too glad to fan.

This particular "michigan" conference campus "leader" - while he claims to have much support in the SDA Church especially from the conservatives, many I know in my neighborhood and other Churches don't look up to him but view him as a buffoon if they even know of him at all and rightfully view themselves on a higher level than him and an object of his scorn because of such.  It's pretty sad when you have to take out 100% financing for a house worth around $300,000 which falls in value and is only worth around $232,000   

The man is jealous and envy and jealousy are what drives his "conservative" campus "leadership in Michigan.  This Michigan "campus" "leader" applauds "fraud", untruth and insincerity in violation of 1 Cor 5:8.  I was so surprised to see that in this section of Corinthians - when the Bible talks about expelling the immoral brother  - that is a person who calls themselves saved and christian, yet they fornicate, or swindle or slanders others - this same section talks about the need to expel this person from fellowship and to fellowship in sincerity and truth.

Interesting the focus on sincerity and truth. Yet, this "michigan" "campus" leader applauds insincerity and truth with his endorsements and his slanderous innuendo.
This leader comes accross as low , low class and willing to seek to all depths of being low in terms of the manner of immorality that he would support - he claims to love Ellen G. White - but he even supports tenets that violate what she says on certain subjects.

Fraud is wrong - but not so if you listen to his "michigan" campus leader.  

What I can say with this particular "Michigan" "campus" - so-called leader - while he tries to cloak his attacks as being driven by morality and being against "apostasy", his rhetoric is really driven by tribalism and by his envy of people from particular cultures and ethnicities being wealthier than him - this is his religion as well as the religion of some he's chosen to defend - and many who've now latched on to his writings. He's a false prophet - and has a philosophy of demons.

The problem is not so much the behavior - that is objectionable to him- to him it's the ethnicity and the wealth that is objectionable- this is what draws his ire and that of many of the persons in this particular conference who support him - case in point - many of the persons from this same conference, support a "catholic" - who bragged about fornicating with a married person, and never objected to her objectionable lifestyle.

 

[tinka]

Seems to be a simple situation to evaluate since I do not know who you are talking about for sure but..the value here is -either you please God or please man that I see folding up the SDA "organization".  It seems so big that I doubt it will turn the other way and now eventually it comes down to an individual choices with the loud cry led by Holy Spirit,   one to one basis and God and this group called the Remnant still attending the "organized" end church. I recall reading very few Adventists in the end will comply. and the organized church along with the same views of Zionists will suffer the same surprise. These are the "unjust". They will be in horror.

The "Just" will be raised before the 3 Angels message was given. Vol. 5 Testimonies. (Miller as example). The Holy ( that follow the lamb) will be those who led some of the redeemed with no "guile" or false doctrine in their mouth and the "wicked" who were totally wrapped in "self" and no other desire but self that equal being in line of either Righteous and Unrighteous. All sealed from different "generations" different tribulations from all era s.   Like Mrs. Hastings who helped give sounding to 3 angels message, (with the 144,000, symbolic and literal as first are the noted messangers that "were sent" that will multiply in the earth) some will be raised in the "special" Resurrection in a living state just before the "Coming of Jesus" and soon all will know who they are. Yes, and many churches will be hindered in getting new members because of their backslidding views that will only cost souls from Heaven. check it out, its there.

[princessdi]

Really.  That's interesting. 

Now, is the issue that they simply present/teach it in the schools(because I know the mere mention of evolution besides to call it wrong is enough to send some into a tizzy), or that is it taught by some as the preferred belief?

Disbelieving the 6-day creation in favor of what other belief?

Traditional evolution.

[Bob Pickle]

Di, one of the professors at La Sierra accused of teaching evolution was quoted by a secular periodical as calling creation science a vulgar term, and of calling Adventist creationists a lunatic fringe.

The issue was teaching evolution as fact and truth, not as a theory preferred by skeptics.

[Bob Pickle]

Jise,

I for one do not care for the mere vague accusations you are making. If you have solid information against a particular individual and feel it best to make it public, then please do more than make mere accusations that no one can properly and adequately evaluate.

I could venture a guess as to the "leader" you refer to, but in doing so I cannot help but recall the marked humility that individual manifested when some minor mistakes they had made were pointed out.

[princessdi]

Aaaahhhh.  Yes well, then he is really supposed to teach at UCLA, USC....anywhere but a christian educational institution.  For me, it is more a condition of his employment.  He knew at La Sierra, he would be expected to teach according to church doctrine.  Was he fired?

Di, one of the professors at La Sierra accused of teaching evolution was quoted by a secular periodical as calling creation science a vulgar term, and of calling Adventist creationists a lunatic fringe.

The issue was teaching evolution as fact and truth, not as a theory preferred by skeptics.

[Bob Pickle]

Di,

This has been going on for years, and nothing has been done about it. That's why the big uproar.

When the LSU president first responded to the concern, he twisted the concern into being an accusation that LSU was teaching atheistic evolution, and then denied that they were teaching atheistic evolution, something that they had never been accused of doing. Some of the material the LSU president has put out there suggests that he has trouble with the idea that God created the world in 6 actual days, and throughout this controversy, I have yet to see him come out and say that that is what he believes.

Perhaps you've heard the name Billie Burdick before. On SDAnet she has repeatedly undermined the idea that God created the world in 6 actual days about 6 thousand years ago. Some of felt that she was promoting theistic evolution, though she, I think, prefers the term progressive creation. She likes to philosophize, but avoids discussing actual scientific data.

I was quite surprised to learn that she was actually a board member of SDAnet. So I asked the moderators why she was a board member when she was at war with Adventist beliefs, creation being just one of several of her issues. Steve Timm responded in part saying that he wasn't going to discuss the orthodoxy or lack thereof of any of the board members. I then asked to speak directly with the board. He then replied that I already had, since each board member had already gotten my emails.

During that dialog Steve shared with me the rules of SDAnet, one of which is that intend to foster an atmosphere that is supportive of Adventist beliefs and church leaders. I then raised the issue of why Bille was allowed to post derogatory comments about the General Conference president.

The end result was that I was banned permanently, I am still waiting after months for Steve to get back to me about when I can bring the super serious issue directly to the board about one of their board members undermining Seventh-day Adventist beliefs, and Bille still posts away.

So this evolution problem is bigger than just LSU.

[princessdi]

So is SDAnet an official church discussion website?  If so, i can understand your concern.  But then, not really.  I mea,if it is a site such as this, how long does it last with everyone agreeing about everything.  I have known discussion sites to die a quick death that way

[Bob Pickle]

SDAnet isn't official. But it's on Andrews' servers, I believe.

When they say they are going to have a supportive and affirming atmosphere regarding Adventist beliefs and leaders, and then one of their own board members promotes what Ellen White called a most dangerous form of infidelity (the idea that the days of creation weren't days), I see a problem.

Sure, you have all kinds who come to forums and sound off. But I would think that the leadership shouldn't be on some sort of ego trip where they think they are smarter than God in that they routinely declare what He inspired His prophets to write to be wrong. Otherwise, they really ought to remove "SDA" out of their name.

One incident was where Bille was criticizing the idea Ted Wilson has promoted, that by spreading the message Christ's coming can be hastened. She went so far as to call Ellen White's statement to that effect "unfortunate."

She likes the idea that Ellen White grew. So I tried to see when Ellen White wrote those kind of statements, and discovered that those statements represented Ellen White's mature, late view of the subject.

So, since Bille rejects some of Ellen White's early statements on the basis that Ellen White later grew, one should expect her to accept as truth late statements that spreading the message will hasten Christ's return. But such was not the case. As it turned out, whether Ellen White grew or not wasn't the issue.

Differences of opinion are one thing. Favoritism is quite another, and favoritism is what I saw.

The administration demanded that I take the position that Ellen White's identification of a most dangerous form of infidelity is merely my opinion, not a divinely inspired truth. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to abandon Seventh-day Adventist beliefs simply to satisfy SDAnet administration. I'm not going to apostatize because they want me to.

It isn't my opinion that the idea that the days of creation weren't days is a most dangerous form of infidelity. I'm not the one who said it. Ellen White said it, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Jesus testified that through her. It's not my opinion, and I'm not going to post as if it is.

[Fran]

I have gone to the site and check it out.  I met Billie about 6 year ago online.  Bob is correct.  I never went back. 

The Adventist are prone to cover up.  They make a plan, prepositioned a chosen person to take over is in the right place at the right time.  Even years earlier, just waiting and talking to individuals speaking innuendo against the one they need to have removed is not voted in.  All the chosen ones and the chosen one just waits for the preplanned to open the doors for the chosen one to take charge.  

I sat and watched this happen to some one I dearly love.  The #1 president felt he was a to be voted in forever. He was mentoring the #1 pastor and got him a call to become president of another conference.  I was on the nominating committee and got to listen to individuals come in telling about things that that this #1 president was doing   I knew many of the things already.  The vote was taken.  #1 president came in and spoke about those disgruntled members were lying.  He left and was not voted back in.  I did not nominate my friend.  I did vote for him though.  So we had a #2 president, a #1 past president!  Praise God.  I knew he was a Godly and a great man of prayer.  A little time passes and #1 ex president started the ball rolling with the #1 pastor now. The # 1 past  president made a plan #2 president out, the clock started.

#2 p got a call from the pastor/president who was asking to come back and pastor.  #2 President gave him a church.   Red flags were waving all over I sent my warning.  P 2 believed God was in charge and he was waiting for the process. He is a Godly man. however he was voted  out after years of devoted service.  Years ago I heard that the person lt came back to being a church pastor in a church not even 1/4 the size he previously pastored.  While he was pastoring in maybe the largest church in the conference.  He got a call to be president and took it.

The then president probably got him the call to the conference was. Then he steps down as president and asks to come pastor in the conference area.  He is very well liked.  Years came and went, then the evil hit him in the face.   When the previous president came back I called and gave him a heads up.  He reminded me that this is a process.  He had faith that the Lord was in charge of him, and whatever God allowed he would accept it.  And the Godly man that he was/is was not voted back in.  He is excited about what is to come.  He, his wife, and I studied the 21 Laws of Leadership as presented by John C Maxwell.  See all of his material he offers at Amazon. We studied it all.   His web is www.injoy.com.

What Jise is saying is one aspect of the Adventist Church culture.  It is just one aspect of the problems.  May Jesus get out the message that God loves you and me!  He died to give us all the opportunity to live with Him eternally!  Therefore I wait for the process to be finished.  He has so many more to gather into his arms!

[Bob Pickle]

Back to Jise and his vague accusations.

I would like to know, Jise, how you feel about Samuel Koranteng-Pipim's stance on creation and against evolution: Do you believe that Pipim has taken the right stance? Do you support Pipim's exposing who among us have been promoting evolution?

[Fran]

WOW!  Here is another threat.   Say-mo-say-mo.  I believe what God says and don't worry about the small stuff.  What is wrong with people just accepting what the Bible says?  Having a relationship with the trinity is as good as it gets.  Jesus is my all and all.  All this stuff just doesn't matter.  If he had wanted us to know how he did what he did and all He would have told us! What would we need to study through eternity?

Give me the Bible, Jesus, and Dr Derek Morris'  Sabbath School lessons 3 hours a day,  Then I am more blessed and happier than I have ever been!  Go to www.forestlakechurch.com.  Download Sabbath School lessons as far back as 2008, his Southern College class, The Life and teachings of Christ.  They also have his sermons listed.  You can also get bible study Sabbath School lessons from HopeTV  I asked God to forgive me for listening to 3ABN for as long as I did.

HopeTV is Adventist all the way.  They have to deal with all the wheelers and dealers.  Derek Morris sits right in the pit of vipers.  I am praying that as he has moved to the GC that he will not get bitten by others at the GC.  It is a process that must happen so Jesus can come!  Folk, Jesus wants to come!  Wake up and find the only personal Savior, Jesus!


Many thanks to Dr. Derek Morris for filling my heart with Jesus!  My cup overfloweth!

[Jise]

The GC Vice President who's house dropped in value around $100,000 and who took out approximately 100% financing according to public records, hails from originally from an adventist conference wherein the country likes to think of itself as a "christian" nation.  But according to Deuteronomy - is this really true?  Like the US, the country is not a loaner, but has been a borrower, borrowing from the US and monetary institutions.  According to Deuteronomy, this is not the mark of a blessed, Godly nation. 

[christined]

[

WOW!  Here is another threat.   Say-mo-say-mo.  I believe what God says and don't worry about the small stuff.  What is wrong with people just accepting what the Bible says?  Having a relationship with the trinity is as good as it gets.  Jesus is my all and all.  All this stuff just doesn't matter.  If he had wanted us to know how he did what he did and all He would have told us! What would we need to study through eternity?

Give me the Bible, Jesus, and Dr Derek Morris'  Sabbath School lessons 3 hours a day,  Then I am more blessed and happier than I have ever been!  Go to www.forestlakechurch.com.  Download Sabbath School lessons as far back as 2008, his Southern College class, The Life and teachings of Christ.  They also have his sermons listed.  You can also get bible study Sabbath School lessons from HopeTV  I asked God to forgive me for listening to 3ABN for as long as I did.

HopeTV is Adventist all the way.  They have to deal with all the wheelers and dealers.  Derek Morris sits right in the pit of vipers.  I am praying that as he has moved to the GC that he will not get bitten by others at the GC.  It is a process that must happen so Jesus can come!  Folk, Jesus wants to come!  Wake up and find the only personal Savior, Jesus!


Many thanks to Dr. Derek Morris for filling my heart with Jesus!  My cup overfloweth!

 

[Johann]

We need to stay close to Jesus!

WOW!  Here is another threat.   Say-mo-say-mo.  I believe what God says and don't worry about the small stuff.  What is wrong with people just accepting what the Bible says?  Having a relationship with the trinity is as good as it gets.  Jesus is my all and all.  All this stuff just doesn't matter.  If he had wanted us to know how he did what he did and all He would have told us! What would we need to study through eternity?

Give me the Bible, Jesus, and Dr Derek Morris'  Sabbath School lessons 3 hours a day,  Then I am more blessed and happier than I have ever been!  Go to www.forestlakechurch.com.  Download Sabbath School lessons as far back as 2008, his Southern College class, The Life and teachings of Christ.  They also have his sermons listed.  You can also get bible study Sabbath School lessons from HopeTV  I asked God to forgive me for listening to 3ABN for as long as I did.

HopeTV is Adventist all the way.  They have to deal with all the wheelers and dealers.  Derek Morris sits right in the pit of vipers.  I am praying that as he has moved to the GC that he will not get bitten by others at the GC.  It is a process that must happen so Jesus can come!  Folk, Jesus wants to come!  Wake up and find the only personal Savior, Jesus!


Many thanks to Dr. Derek Morris for filling my heart with Jesus!  My cup overfloweth!