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[childoftheking]

I am glad you clarified that you were not making a racial slur Tinka. Because I was confused about your meaning too and if it had been a racial remark it would have been very offensive.

[amazinggrace]

Dr. Yvonne Lewis practices acupuncture and other Oriental medicine which are based on occult beliefs and practices.  Bottom line, she's involved with spiritualism, perhaps unknowingly.
 

[tinka]

I just hate those slang comparisons and my mind does not refer or think to those types of separating of races let alone to what was implied by the implyer. Pretty bad as far as I am concerned. He is the one that needs to be jumped on for his conotations of disgusting references.

[tinka]

amazinggrace,  I heard her speech on all that too.  I think I got it now....DS must have a mind and thoughts like Christian. They need  or maybe accupuncture on top of their heads.            

[Artiste]

Dr. Yvonne Lewis practices acupuncture and other Oriental medicine which are based on occult beliefs and practices.  Bottom line, she's involved with spiritualism, perhaps unknowingly.

Acupuncture is a scientifically validated medical treatment.

[Johann]

Dr. Yvonne Lewis practices acupuncture and other Oriental medicine which are based on occult beliefs and practices.  Bottom line, she's involved with spiritualism, perhaps unknowingly.
 

Seems like she said in her story that she discarded acupuncture.

[amazinggrace]

That's good if she has.  Acupuncture is based on Chinese occult beliefs.  Do some research on it.  One good book is Manuel Vasquez's The Mainstreaming of the New Age, chapter 10, "Traditional Chinese Medicine, Including Acupuncture."  Just because it may "work" does not make it safe.  Hypnotism "works" too, but it is highly dangerous and places the subject under the control of other forces.

[Artiste]

Not true, ag!  What are your scientific and research backgrounds for making such a statement?

It's been said, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

[amazinggrace]

Anyone who has done any reading on acupuncture knows that it is based on Chinese Taoist (pagan) belief of a universal energy force called the qi (chi) that permeates all nature and involves the yin (negative, dark, female) and the yang (positive, light, male) which are supposed to be balanced.  This yin/yang qi force is supposed to flow through the human body on meridians.  If there is a blockage or congestion of this force, then acupuncture is supposed to break the blockage and allow the chi force to flow and the yin/yang to balance. 

Artiste, do you seriously believe this?

Here are some quotes you can easily find on the web:

"The Nei-ching, which is to this day the classic text of acupuncture theory and practice, is based on Eastern religious theories concerning the nature of the universe.  All of nature and the universe (including man) is eternally existing as vibrations of impersonal, polarized energy called Yin and Yang.  The key to spiritual, mental, and physical well-being, according to this Taoist dualism, is to balance the positive and negative aspects of this energy.  Acupuncturist Dr. Stephen Thomas Chang, founder of theTao Foundation in San Francisco.... explains: 'The Nei Ching states that 'the entire universe is an oscillation of the forces of Yin and Yang.'... In terms of medicine, the interaction of Yin and Yang is the basis of the energy pervading and activating the body, and an imbalance in the relative amounts of Yin and Yang energy is seen as the root of all pathology.'   

"Acupuncture is based on Chinese religious theories, including Taoist philosophy and Yin Yang dualism.  Chinese practitioners speculated that this invisible energy flowed along unseen paths called meridians.  'For health to be maintained the 'ch'i must flow without hindrance and the skill of the acupuncturist lies in his ability to free the meridians so that there is an even energy flow.  This is done by the light insertion of needles of pure copper, silver or gold into the flesh at specific points along the lines of the meridians.' (The Encyclopedia of Alternative Medicine and Self-Help, p. 21)"


"The qi is an Eastern name for the universal energy supposedly flowing through the body.  A fact sheet on the meaning of the 108 moves in Tai Chi, put out by the Taoist Tai Chi Society in the U.S., states that the 36 major and minor yang channels in the body are the 'Celestial Deities' while the yin elements in the body are the '72 Terrestrial Deities.' ... The statement goes on to say that the 'full 108 symbolized the harmonious balance of the yin and the yang and therefore lead to health.  The union of all yin and yang elements represent the return to the holistic and undifferentiated state of the Tao."

Is any of this Biblical or Christian? Isn't it strange that God revealed a wealth of information about disease, its cause and cure to Ellen White, but made no mention of yin, yang, chi, meridians, acupuncture, etc.

Acupuncture and other Eastern alternative therapies are based on pagan occult beliefs and should be shunned by Christians.

[Johann]

Well, paganism has made use of many of the God-given powers in nature and in the human being. Does that void the wonderful creative powers which our Creator has bestowed in human nature?

Yes, it might be dangerous to use the ying and yang theories as formulated in some cultures, but does that invalidate the Great Controversy theme we see in the fight between good and evil as portrayed so vividly in the writings of Ellen White - and in Scripture?

Acupuncture activates the electric currents God has placed in our nerve system. If I'm not mistaken modern medicine makes use of the same nerves to send and measure currents through our bodies. Ellen White speaks vividly about those electric currents in our bodies which can be used to convey health and healing to our ailing limbs and organs. Does that mean we should discard her admonition to us?

The same parts of our bodies can be used to destoy us and lead us to depart from the divine or to heal us with divine power and bring us salvation through Jesus Christ to make our thinking more like His.

There are Christian physicians who have gained a greater knowledge of how these electric currents  travel through our nerve system by studying how they are influenced by the needles the Chinese have been using through many centuries, and they do this without having anything to do with pagan religion.  Neither the needles nor the nerves are pagan in themselves.

Did someone suggest Christians should never ride in a car because the pagans were the first ones who used the wheel?

[amazinggrace]

Johann, the yin and yang theory is not the "good vs. evil" worldview that Christians have.  It is that there is no evil, only opposites that need to work together in harmony.  The qi (chi) has nothing to do with the nervous system in our bodies.  It is a metaphysical energy force which pervades everything in the universe which is pantheism (remember Kellogg?). 

When Manuel Vasquez interviewed Professor Xinnong, a world-renowned acupuncturist professor at the International Acupuncture Center, Mr. Vasquez asked Professor Xinnong if "he could identify the meridians in western medical, physiological or anatomical terms.  He said No.  He said they were mystical and there was no way of identifying them in western medical terms."  The Mainstreaming of the New Age, p. 135

Anyone who believes that acupuncture is a valid and safe way of healing needs to do some serious study into this subject before defending it.  Go to Amazon.com and order the book The Mainstreaming of the New Age or just read some articles online. 

[princessdi]

Ok tinka, I am sure youare doing the very best you can here, to rectify the situation.  Just stay away from the analogies to other ethnicities and the color of rotting fruit and you will be alright.  this thing is so deep seeded in you at this point, you can't help yourself.  God bless you!

[amazinggrace]

"These Satanic agents claim to cure disease.  They attribute their power to electricity, magnetism, or the so-called 'sympathetic remedies,' while in truth they are but channels for Satan's electric currents.  By this means he casts his spell over the bodies and souls of men." Evangelism, p. 609

This is why acupuncture "works" - the patients are placing themselves under the power of spiritualism.

Even an old Life magazine article on acupuncture commented on a visit to an acupuncture center: "In a case are tonic tablets of Dr. Wu's own prescription - 'We only selected precious materials as deer's horn and seal's kidney.'  Somehow, the spell begins to work even on a stranger.  It sems less like a hospital than a visit to your friendly neighborhood sorcerer.  There is no antiseptic mystique to unsettle patients here, just the practical atmosphere of a working magic shop.  A life-size brass sentinel stands at the door, its frame pitted with 720 acupuncture points with such Chinese names as 'Heavenly Window' and 'Sea of Energy'.".......

The article continues: "  'You must understand, acupuncture comes from a different concept of life,' whispered Dr. Harel. 'The Chinese believe there is a universal energy, called chi, which travels through the human body in 12 pathways or meridians.  We believe that illness is caused by interruptions in that flow of energy.  Disease means imbalance, and the Chinese found the way to restore balance - by stimulating with needles.' "

God revealed to Ellen White that disease is caused by violating the laws of health and can be restored by proper diet, rest, exercise, use of water, temperance, sunshine, fresh air and trust in God.  This is based on true medical science, not Chinese mystical pagan concepts involving pantheism.  Just because some Christian doctors have been duped into becoming involved in acupuncture does not make it right or safe.  These doctors are deceived.  Dr. Kellogg, a highly intelligent man, was also deceived by pantheistic theories and eventually left the SDA church.

[Johann]

I was not saying that the philosophy used in connection with acupuncture is Christian, nor am I advocating acupuncture. Please don't say that I am saying what I am not.

I fully realize the danger if we follow in the footsteps of Dr. Kellogg and others. But does that mean we should dump ourselves in the ditch on the other side of the road. You are using quotations from the writings of Ellen White avoiding those where she says something quite different.

It seems to me the Seventh-day Adventist Church made a great mistake when some of their missionaries to China declared ancient Chinese values, knowledge, and traditions, as worthless trash in comparison with Western Capitalism, which to them seemed divine. I noticed the same thing when I came to West Africa as a missionary, that some of our ardent former missionaries had taught that Northern European traditions equaled Christian behavior. The natives bought the idea and were baptized because the Europeans were wealthy and cultivated, so they were certain they would achieve wealth as well if they joined our prosperous church. They soon discovered that my salary as a missionary of this wealthy SDA church was much higher than their earnings.

Some Christian missionaries carried the ideas to the third world that much of what the Westerners do is good because we put Christian labels on it. But whatever those people have associated with a "yin" or "yang" label is evil, especially if they use the terms their own people understand when they explain it.  

We are told that pagan Rome worshipped the sun. Is it advocating pagan theories that we should let the rays of the sun enter our homes? Does it  make us more devout Christians if we refuse to let the benefits of anything ever used or mentioned by unbelievers or pagans help us?

What does Jesus Christ say about this? Or the apostle Paul?

[Johann]

The brain nerves which communicate with the entire system are the only medium through which Heaven can communicate to man and affect his inmost life. Whatever disturbs the circulation of the electric  currents in the nervous system lessens the strength of the vital powers, and the result is a deadening of the sensibilities of the mind.
Testimonies For The Church 2:347.