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[Artiste]

SoulEspresso and GrandmaNettie:

I'm happy that you have come over from BSDA to join us on this forum...

But, I feel things could be more productive.  I'm not so happy that you both feel the need to continually criticize and attack the actions and motives of Bob and Gailon.  They have enough to concern themselves with what they are currently working on. 

I feel that you both have an agenda and that it is not a positive one.

Perhaps you could confine further attacks and criticisms to the "other" forum...i.e. BSDA... 

[SoulEspresso]

Thanks for the welcome.  I am sorry if you thought I was making a personal attack (Bob, Gailon ... sorry if that's what you thought).   

Just because a person supports them doesn't mean supporting everything they do.  That's a herd mentality, and it's irresponsible.  Don't they also have a responsibility to the "stockholders in the pews" they're standing up for? 

I mean, I'd love to see Danny & Co. out on the streets tomorrow, and 3ABN under control of responsible people.  I'd love to see honest answers to all the financial questions, a broadcast apology to Linda, admission that Tommy never should have been at 3ABN, and a clearing of all questions of accountability.

But I hope that doesn't mean I have to support unnecessary speculation and veiled character attacks. 

Bob and Gailon have taken on the public task of cleaning up 3ABN; since whatever they post is thus open to public scrutiny, everything had better be on the highest road they can climb to.  I miss the days of gathering eyewitnesses and original documents.  I understand if they can't do that specifically for now, but if it were me, I'd hold off on anything that wasn't completely verifiable.  If that meant not posting for awhile and letting people wonder, so be it. 

The truth is worth telling; forgive me for thinking there's a right way and a wrong way to tell it.   

[Snoopy]

SoulEspresso and GrandmaNettie:

I'm happy that you have come over from BSDA to join us on this forum...

But, I feel things could be more productive.  I'm not so happy that you both feel the need to continually criticize and attack the actions and motives of Bob and Gailon.  They have enough to concern themselves with what they are currently working on. 

I feel that you both have an agenda and that it is not a positive one.

Perhaps you could confine further attacks and criticisms to the "other" forum...i.e. BSDA... 

Very well said, Artiste!!  I had similar sentiments but you articulated the thought much better than I ever could!!

[Bob Pickle]

SE,

I want to personally thank you for the support you have given over these many months. It is much appreciated.

One challenge we do face is that if we did not touch everything that someone doesn't want us to touch for what they consider valid reasons, we would never be able to defend ourselves.

There are certainly people out there who would get all up at arms if we started asking questions about why my application for membership has twice now been denied by ASI, and the second time without explanation. I received positive recommendations from every level, and yet was voted down by the executive committee. Why?

Has the ASI executive committee added a new membership requirement that you can't speak out against child molestation, private inurement, tax fraud, and corruption? If not, what's the problem?

Has the ASI executive committee disciplined Harold Lance in any way for his role in the debacle one year ago? If not, then why, pray tell, am I being discriminated against? And why is the executive committee apparently scared to tell me what the reasons were for denying my membership a second time?

Now is my asking such questions vengeful or spiteful? Or is it simply something I have to do since 3ABN and Danny Shelton made the stupid mistake of putting into this stupid lawsuit the allegation that we have alleged that there is some sort of conspiracy between 3ABN and ASI leadership, and thus I am left in the awkward position of having to investigate questions that I would very much rather leave alone since ASI is an organization I have had great respect for and have supported?

Going to ASI in 2006 was a huge expense for our family. I wouldn't have done it if I didn't believe in the organization.

If we had to cater to all the wishes of various ones out there, we truly would not be able to defend ourselves.

[SoulEspresso]

I want to personally thank you for the support you have given over these many months. It is much appreciated.

One challenge we do face is that if we did not touch everything that someone doesn't want us to touch for what they consider valid reasons, we would never be able to defend ourselves.

If we had to cater to all the wishes of various ones out there, we truly would not be able to defend ourselves.

This is absolutely true.  Until the Lord comes each of us has to live with ourselves viz what we can and cannot do.  What I say should only matter to you if it rings a gong in your conscience.  For my conscience, I have to support you when I think you are right, and tell you when I think you are not. 

Vice versa, too.    I know for me, if I don't have people calling me on stuff, even if I'm in Scripture and prayer, there are things I don't always realize.  If unity meant uniformity we'd be in real trouble. 

As for ASI, it was wrong and unfair, but not a bit surprising, alas.  Would that blood were not thicker than ethics.    While ASI may have many fine members, it looks to me like certain leaders are not above being influenced behind-the-scenes.  Maybe they need a housecleaning as well?

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

"Gailon, I have highlighted this portion of on of your recent posts that needs addressing.

You make pointed claims that many of FHB's statements in recent weeks have crossed the line and constitute libel and defamation.  Please post links and the text to clearly show this. " GrandmaNettie

In the event you have a need to know. I would refer you to BSDA and I am sure you could find the same ones I have copied as exhibits from FHB and Ian.

Rather than try and fuel the flames further, Ms Nettie, why don't you complete your most important calling and find out what the basis is for their misconception? It may lead to a reconciliation and avoid the need to seriously expand the pending litigation. Now how much better that role would be!!! Conciliation...a novel idea that could leave one bewildered in their search for peace! But one that should be the goal, nevertheless.

Gailon Arthur Joy

[inga]

Soul, I do appreciate your post below. It seems a little more clear-eyed than previous ones. (I thought you were being harder on Gailon than necessary, but then we must take into consideration that you usually express yourself vigorously.  )

I do agree that Gailon and Bob need to follow a higher standard than that set by the Danny defenders. (I've often wished that the statements tying together the evidence on http://www.save-3abn.com/ were a little more subdued. Understatement is often much more effective than more emphatic statements. The latter arouse opposition, whereas the former persuade folks that they arrived at their own conclusions. )

Having thought about it a bit more, let me add this to clarify my post just above: 

Their private motivations for suing you, Gailon, may not seem peripheral, since it would explain such clear violations of SOP counsel, not to mention other sacred writings like, oh ... say ... The Bible.  But most of us realize that private motives are often unknown to the individual, much less other people.  And it looks to me like speculation in an unkind, accusatory spirit. 

Put another way:  IMO continuing this thread in this manner will undermine your aims.  Telling us what lies they told about you behind the scenes doesn't help you.  It just digs us all further into the mud. 

[SoulEspresso]

Rather than try and fuel the flames further, Ms Nettie, why don't you complete your most important calling and find out what the basis is for their misconception? It may lead to a reconciliation and avoid the need to seriously expand the pending litigation. Now how much better that role would be!!! Conciliation...a novel idea that could leave one bewildered in their search for peace! But one that should be the goal, nevertheless.

Is this really necessary?      Do you realize how this sounds to others?



Perhaps I was being too hard on Gailon, Inga ... though you and I agree that the truth doesn't need to shout. 

I spoke (wrote) the way I did because, many times, we don't know how we're coming across unless someone else tells us.

[Artiste]

...I am left in the awkward position of having to investigate questions that I would very much rather leave alone since ASI is an organization I have had great respect for and have supported?

Going to ASI in 2006 was a huge expense for our family. I wouldn't have done it if I didn't believe in the organization.

Bob, I also had great respect and appreciation for ASI in the past and used to attend faithfully each year. 

It has been difficult to realize that the ASI I knew and loved could be capable of unfair actions such as those you have described.

 

[Bob Pickle]

Rather than try and fuel the flames further, Ms Nettie, why don't you complete your most important calling and find out what the basis is for their misconception? It may lead to a reconciliation and avoid the need to seriously expand the pending litigation. Now how much better that role would be!!! Conciliation...a novel idea that could leave one bewildered in their search for peace! But one that should be the goal, nevertheless.

Is this really necessary?      Do you realize how this sounds to others?

The fact that we have thus far not expanded the litigation has already been used by the other side as an excuse for our not being given certain information, in a status conference with the judge no less.

Get the idea? The other side is willing to take the position that we can't defend ourselves in the manner we see fit unless we expand the litigation.

[Artiste]

So it sounds like expanding the litigation might be necessary in order to get information that you need to defend yourselves?

Does "expanding the litigation" mean adding other people to the lawsuit?

Is that what Gailon was referring to when he mentioned expanding the litigation?  How many people?   

[SoulEspresso]

The fact that we have thus far not expanded the litigation has already been used by the other side as an excuse for our not being given certain information, in a status conference with the judge no less.

Get the idea? The other side is willing to take the position that we can't defend ourselves in the manner we see fit unless we expand the litigation.

You may well need to do this, I have no idea.  The "necessary" part I was concerned about was some word choices on Gailon's part. 

[Bob Pickle]

And I would be greatly surprised if no one ever again questioned any of Gailon's word choices.

Yet a big bulldog just may be what Danny and his attorneys need.

[Daryl Fawcett]

Inga, as someone who writes a lot, you have a good grasp of the English language, grammar and structure right?  Look carefully at what WT said in the paragraph that Bob quoted:

"Having said this, I wish to make it clear that I am proud of FHB's sense of justice and desire for truth to be told. Were it not for him and a few others who have often not been permitted to post 'sensitive' comments, many who read the forums would remain in the dark regarding the truth of the matters at hand. He has been one of the few who have been willing to sacrifice reputation, professional career, family, and whatever was needed to stand for truth - at the hand of some of you who have had no such conscience of right and wrong."

Decades ago I was an English major.  Even though some of my skills in the area have faded, just looking at some key parts of the paragraph Bob is referring to allow for a proper interpretation.

Taking the first few words of the bolded section, "He has been one of the few", this points to FHB being a part of a small group.
The next three words, "who have been", corroborate that WT was referring to a group.  "Have" is plural.  If he had been referring only to FHB he would have typed "has".  Finally, carefully look at the tense WT uses.  WT is saying that this small group of people have been willing to sacrifice all of the listed things, not that they have necessarily already done so, but that they are indeed willing to do so  to stand for truth.

Bob, Gailon, Artiste, Inga et al: There is certainly vengence going on, and it isn't coming from a young man who has posted his perspective and opinions in an intelligent manner most of the time.  This whole thread is nothing more than a vendetta by two angry men with axes to grind, lashing out and using Satan's very tools to fight what used to be God's battle.  What is the point in all of this innuendo and the bringing up of allegations?  Is FHB connected to 3abn other than by being WT's son?  Will attempting to destroy him help your defense in the law suit?  

Only those with blindfolds on will be fooled by this hideous thing you are doing.  Others will see it for what it is - revenge for FHB bringing forward Gailon's embezzlement conviction and for daring to speak his mind in a clear and thoughtful way over on BlackSDA.com.  Ever since then steps have been taken, first to out him as WT's son and now to destroy him.  

Do you really think Linda Shelton will feel it is appropriate to do this to this young man?  Seems to me you are doing just what you claim Danny Shelton has done to those who have crossed him.  

What has happened to the battle for truth?  When did you all lose sight of God's will in all of this?  How can you possibly think you are on a righteous path?  Bob, Gailon, I believe that you have now fully purchased your defeat.... not only in the law suit but also in the court of public opinion.

Daryl,  as I read through the posts that Gailon, Bob and others have made on this thread, your forum rules came to mind.  What is rule number one?

1 - You agree not to post any material which is knowingly false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, adult material, or otherwise in violation of any International or United States Federal law.

Sir, my advice is to read this thread carefully and see how many of the points of rule #1 are in violation.  

I sent you a PM regarding this.

[Fran]

And I would be greatly surprised if no one ever again questioned any of Gailon's word choices.

Yet a big bulldog just may be what Danny and his attorneys need.

Bob;

I believe your statement to be true.  Sometimes you just spin your wheels talking to certain people.  It is necessary to be a bull dog to get the peoples attention!  I have used that approach several times.  I believe that there are times you have to talk on the level of those you are speaking to!  Danny is a bull dog; totally and completely!  He boldly and brazenly continues his actions as if he has done nothing wrong.  I have documentation, and so do you, that this is not the case.  Yet, he boldly lies and just acts as if the problems do not exist. 

You can make calm, politically correct statements and nothing changes.  However, if you step out and tell it like it is, people will get mad at you or the one/thing you are speaking of.  I call it, "Shock and Awe."  I have been called a "bull dog".  When I read that description of me, I smiled and thought, finally someone is paying attention!

Attention to the 3ABN/Danny Shelton would probably have died on the vine had only calm talk had continues.  I used that approach to get people to think about what was happening.  The Lord knew I needed a rest and sent Gailon.  Praise God!  His words may not be politically correct at all times.  However, no one can deny that this causes thought about what is happening.

Which is worse; listening to a "Bull Dog,"  or listening to politically correct statements that allows the church to be shamed and open sin to abound?  I will take the "Bull Dog" any day of the week; especially when it works as Gailon's many statements have done.  The church is listening; 3ABN is listening; the members in the pews are listening; and if his statements seem crash and mean, I see you are not only listening, but hearing.