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[Avidwalker]

Inga,

The information on Black SDA was originally posted by Sonshineonme -   

Jan 6 2008, 11:06 PM 

In the thread -  Factually Challenged?, Has Walt Thompson got the inside track or outside dilusion?

It was responded to by a number of posters.

AW

[GrandmaNettie]

Why, Grandma Nettie, thank you for the affirmation and the English lesson. 
[But where are those smilies we've become addicted to on BlackSDA??]

I will let others reply to some of the astonishing statements you make in your post and restrict myself to just one...

Inga, as someone who writes a lot, you have a good grasp of the English language, grammar and structure right? <snip>

What is the point in all of this innuendo and the bringing up of allegations?  Is FHB connected to 3abn other than by being WT's son?  Will attempting to destroy him help your defense in the law suit? <snip>

Ever since then steps have been taken, first to out him as WT's son and now to destroy him.  

First of all, the most hurtful thing I've said about Greg Thompson/ aka FHB is that he seems to have an axe to grind, and that has clouded his judgment. He posted relatively reasonably on BlackSDA, compared to certain others, but I always thought he seemed to have an axe to grind, which clouded his judgment.

Now Gailon and Bob's posts give a little history, and that explains it.

There's a terrrible misunderstanding somewhere in the past, I'm sure, but your allegations are clearly "over the top."

I was wondering what you meant by "innuendo" until I saw this statement by Gailon regarding history more than 15 years old: "that Greg was off limits and we have never told anyone anything of what we learned." I don't know what you read into that, but I didn't read more into it than he said. Gailon and Bob must have wondered why Greg was so persistently attacking them, and they must both have had an <aha> moment when it became clear that the reasons lay way in the past -- in what appears involve a misunderstanding.

And who is/has been trying "to destroy" whom?

It is clear that Dan Shelton has been trying to destroy Bob and Gailon for reasons that are fairly transparent. Unfortunately Greg T. got into the fray in defense of Dan. Getting so close to someone slinging so much mud doubtless got Greg a little spattered.

And now you characterize our posts as an "attempting to destroy him"?!

And, regarding your concern of Greg being "outed" -- the only persons who have anything to fear for being "outed" in these fora are those who cross Dan Shelton, because Dan has a known history of retaliation.And, to put it in perspective, it was Walt Thompson who identified FHB as his own son.
 
Otoh, what kind of reprisal do you fear for Greg? That his posts should be attached to his name is hardly a "reprisal." We should all be willing to own up to what we wrote -- including you.

I'm having a really hard time understanding your reasoning here. Perhaps something is clouding your judgment too?

May God give you peace.

Inga

Inga,  I am only going to respond to the part of your post that I have bolded at this time.  It was only recently that Walt Thompson identified FHB as his son on BlackSDA.com  I realize that you don't spend a great deal of time over on that forum so you must have missed all of the other incidences.  I have done a quick search over on BlackSDA.com so that you and others will be able to see the truth of the matter.

1. April 8, 2007 Bob Pickle got a 2-week suspension on BlackSDA.com.  Why?  Because he made a post that contained a link to a MySpace page and accompanied that with statements that the owner of BlackSDA.com felt were a clear attempt to reveal FHB's identity.

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=9174&view=findpost&p=190441

Calvin said:
"NO IT IS NOT ALRIGHT. Just because you can find information on the net or have knowledge by any other means of a BSDA member’s identity or information that could lead to their identity does not make it right to post it here. It is still in violation of my privacy policy….and you knew that because I have warned you. You have been the most blatant violator of the policy than any member here with your constant attempt to expose FHB. You have been suspended for 14 days. If you come back and do it again, the suspension will be permanent."

2. So, they took the mission of revealing FHB's identity to save3abn.com:

http://www.save-3abn.com/danny-shelton-untruths-walt-admits-1.htm

"It all started with quite a different topic. According to various sources, a common Shelton tactic over the years has been to dig up dirt about anyone who raises questions and use it to silence them. Accordingly, one of Danny Shelton's apologists operating on BlackSDA.com, the son of 3ABN board chairman Dr. Walt Thompson posting under the name of fallible humanbeing, "fhb" for short, started alluding on November 20, 2006, to something he or someone else had found. The following day he got more specific."

On January 7, 2008, Calvin made a policy change:

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=18980&view=findpost&p=231616

Calvin said:

"I don’t have the time or the inclination to protect your identity. So much of this game is being played on both sides, so we are going to bring it out in the open. So you can go ahead and publicly challenge anothers identity.

Note: this does not give you a license for insulting name calling. "

The ramifications of this policy change led a forum member to launch a satirical thread that turned into quite an exercise of good will between both sides, even though it drew the contempt of some.  Interestingly, as members "revealed" themselves as various leaders of 3abn, the so-called dannyclones didn't rush in with anger and vengence.  Quite the opposite.  Two joined in.

3. On January 10, 2008, sister became insensed that FHB would claim to be Linda.  Pay special attention to the first sentence in the last paragraph of the part of her post that I have pasted in below(I have bolded it):

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=18985&view=findpost&p=232030

"The source of my information is not Linda S. (aka FHB), but I will reveal the true source of FHB's information: WALT THOMPSON. The reason all FHB information has such a strong "Danny spin" is because it come from Danny, through Walt, directly to FHB. FHB's family relationship and source of information at 3ABN is Dr. Walter Thompson.

How do I know this is true? I check my facts before I post...

Funny, if FHB had not claimed to be Linda, I probably would not have outed him yet. It was simply the extreme poor taste he exhibited in claiming to be Linda, after all the cruel and false accusations he has made regarding her, that saddened me."

4. January 13, 2008, Walter Thompson's email, in which he said FHB was his son and that you refer to in your post was posted by sonshineonme on BlackSDA.com:

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=18959&view=findpost&p=232617

You will notice that this was after all of the above documented attempts by Bob and the final reveals by  save3abn and sister.

Just so you know the truth of the matter...

GrandmaNettie

[inga]

Grandma, I have been paying less attention to the identity of the folks online than to the content of their posts.

Let me tell you, though, that Walt Thompson's testimony re the identity of FHB was far more persuasive than anyone else's.

[SoulEspresso]

Bob, Gailon, Artiste, Inga et al: There is certainly vengence going on, and it isn't coming from a young man who has posted his perspective and opinions in an intelligent manner most of the time.  This whole thread is nothing more than a vendetta by two angry men with axes to grind, lashing out and using Satan's very tools to fight what used to be God's battle.  What is the point in all of this innuendo and the bringing up of allegations?  Is FHB connected to 3abn other than by being WT's son?  Will attempting to destroy him help your defense in the law suit? 

Only those with blindfolds on will be fooled by this hideous thing you are doing.  Others will see it for what it is - revenge for FHB bringing forward Gailon's embezzlement conviction and for daring to speak his mind in a clear and thoughtful way over on BlackSDA.com.  Ever since then steps have been taken, first to out him as WT's son and now to destroy him. 

What has happened to the battle for truth?  When did you all lose sight of God's will in all of this?  How can you possibly think you are on a righteous path?  Bob, Gailon, I believe that you have now fully purchased your defeat.... not only in the law suit but also in the court of public opinion. 

GrandmaNettie, I feel quite sorry for you as this has obviously hit a raw nerve with you. You sound rather irrational, bitter, vindictive and ready to grasp at straws and 'BLAME' Gailon and Bob for every perceived wrong, whether it be logical or not. Maybe, you need to stand aside, re-read what you have written and in the clear light of day, assess just what is going on in your head.

It was WT's allegations alone which alerted any of us to the fact the FHB was his son. Otherwise, none would have been any the wiser. Is this too close to home for you, that you retaliate with such venom and with little regard for facts?

No, GrandmaNettie is right.  I don't find her to be angry at all. 

From what we know, what happened at AUC in the early 1990s is totally irrelevant to Danny Shelton's shenanigans at 3ABN.  If this discussion about FHB brings up some dirt on his past, it had better be directly and incontrovertibly connected.  If all this is, is sharing how terrible a person he supposedly is, it will be a real Shame with a capital S ... Shame to Bob and Gailon, Shame to the church, and Shame to those of us who want to see cleanup done in a transparent, Christlike manner. 

From all I see, FHB is as wrong as the day is long about 3ABN, Danny Shelton, and his father.  Moreover, Gailon's embezzlement conviction was irrelevant and it was wrong -- a sin -- for him to bring it up (especially if one understands the technicalities of that case).   Frankly, he owes Mr. Joy an apology. 

But if Bob and Gailon decided FHB was off-limits awhile back, why the change, if not anger and revenge?  What does a situation in a local school in the early 1990s have to do with Danny Shelton's shenanigans at 3ABN?  If the answer is NOTHING (which it sure looks like), then the topic needs to be dropped.  Now.

I've made no secret of my support for Pickle/Joy's goals.  3ABN needs a new board, a new constituency, transparency ... justice needs to be worked on Danny, whatever form that takes and whomever it comes from.  The truth has to come out, and Pickle/Joy deserve the thanks of the church for standing up publicly to the powers at the channel. 

But right things have to be done in the right ways.  The ends do not justify the means, because the ends are up to God.  Using the wrong means, is also a sin.  All we have are means.  If Gailon had a run-in with Greg Thompsen in years past, years past is where it needs to stay, regardless of whether Walt is the one who brought it up.  Walt is wrong about many things, and what he says should not dictate this conversation.

I would have had no inkling of past history if this thread hadn't begun to exegete a sentence in Walt's e-mail alluding to some old bitterness.  Bringing it up was unnecessary and irrelevant.

Greg is not a player, by Walt's own statement.  Gailon's anger at him is understandable and justifiable, but striking back is not. 

[Bob Pickle]

GrandmaNettie,

I think I have been quite clear to a number of folks that I was not trying to out FHB in my post. There were a number of folks who read what I wrote and never thought I was doing that. Only some of those who already knew his identity thought I was doing so. I have yet to hear from one person who figured out who FHB was because of what I wrote.

Remember, it was Panama Pete that talked about earthquakes on a date that happened to be FHB's birthday, not me, and who cryptically suggested that FHB lived in Wisconsin. But unless you knew who FHB was, you didn't catch what he was talking about.

SoulEspresso,

Both Ronnie Shelton and Walt Thompson made very explicit claims regarding thinking we had something to do with Gregory's loss of job, and Ronnie did so in some sort of connection to the present lawsuit. Why the plaintiffs filed suit is a question that must be addressed, and it has nothing to do with being unkind or angry.

Especially is this so when I do not believe Gailon even knew Walt had a son when Ronnie said what he did. In other words, Gailon did not have a run in with Gregory years ago, from what we can tell.

[GrandmaNettie]

No, GrandmaNettie is right.  I don't find her to be angry at all. 

From what we know, what happened at AUC in the early 1990s is totally irrelevant to Danny Shelton's shenanigans at 3ABN.  If this discussion about FHB brings up some dirt on his past, it had better be directly and incontrovertibly connected.  If all this is, is sharing how terrible a person he supposedly is, it will be a real Shame with a capital S ... Shame to Bob and Gailon, Shame to the church, and Shame to those of us who want to see cleanup done in a transparent, Christlike manner. 

I did a bit of digging this morning and found that FHB had spent a grand total of 2 weeks of intensive in class time for an online course he was taking.  His being there was coincidental and had nothing whatsoever to do with any of the shenanigans.

From all I see, FHB is as wrong as the day is long about 3ABN, Danny Shelton, and his father.  Moreover, Gailon's embezzlement conviction was irrelevant and it was wrong -- a sin -- for him to bring it up (especially if one understands the technicalities of that case).   Frankly, he owes Mr. Joy an apology. 

But if Bob and Gailon decided FHB was off-limits awhile back, why the change, if not anger and revenge?  What does a situation in a local school in the early 1990s have to do with Danny Shelton's shenanigans at 3ABN?  If the answer is NOTHING (which it sure looks like), then the topic needs to be dropped.  Now.


I've made no secret of my support for Pickle/Joy's goals.  3ABN needs a new board, a new constituency, transparency ... justice needs to be worked on Danny, whatever form that takes and whomever it comes from.  The truth has to come out, and Pickle/Joy deserve the thanks of the church for standing up publicly to the powers at the channel. 

But right things have to be done in the right ways.  The ends do not justify the means, because the ends are up to God.  Using the wrong means, is also a sin.  All we have are means.  If Gailon had a run-in with Greg Thompsen in years past, years past is where it needs to stay, regardless of whether Walt is the one who brought it up.  Walt is wrong about many things, and what he says should not dictate this conversation.

I have also seen that there are strong indications of things amiss at 3abn, most specifically the allegations of pastoral abuse and possible cover-ups.  I hope to see the truth come out and praise some of the ground work that Bob and Gailon  have done in this area.  But things do have to be done in the right way.  Unfortunately, at times they have shown a willingness to practice the ends justifies the means in this battle as was shown by the Nick Miller incident. 

I would have had no inkling of past history if this thread hadn't begun to exegete a sentence in Walt's e-mail alluding to some old bitterness.  Bringing it up was unnecessary and irrelevant.

Greg is not a player, by Walt's own statement.  Gailon's anger at him is understandable and justifiable, but striking back is not. 

Whether this attempted smear of FHB is due to revenge or is a desperate diversionary tactic, it is wrong.

[Chrissie]

Whether this attempted smear of FHB is due to revenge or is a desperate diversionary tactic, it is wrong.

I did not see this as an attempt to smear, nor revenge nor as a desperate diversionary tactic.  I honestly do not see anger in Gailon's comments - rather explanation about a situation referred to by WT, which was rather confusing, as WT seemed to be tying it in with 3abn's situation.

What I did see though was a combatant and mean-spirited attack on Bob and Gailon, as well as a very heavy handed approach by you GrandmaNettie as you addressed Daryl as 'Sir' and advised him to re-read Rule 1. I felt that your reaction was way 'over the top'.

That being said, I realise that individuals take different slants on a position to what another sees. The explanation has been given. You have stated how you felt. Others have given their 'take' on what has been stated. Maybe, it does now need to be laid to rest.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

This is Great news- a partial search for truth:

"I did a bit of digging this morning and found that FHB had spent a grand total of 2 weeks of intensive in class time for an online course he was taking.  His being there was coincidental and had nothing whatsoever to do with any of the shenanigans." GrandmaNettie:

Then is is time for you dig some more and explain just what is the basis for their belief that I was ever told anything by any student 16 years ago that I could have divulged to his employer and cost Greg his job last year?.

The point of this discussion is that it is not clear to either Bob or myself why Greg and Dr Thompson believe we had anything to do with the
1)Loss of his Family
2)Loss of his job.

Since you have the ability to "dig" then you have a DUTY to "dig" some more and come up with a real explanation that fits the very clear and accusatory statements.

And, for the record, many of Gregs statements of recent weeks have clearly crossed the line and constitute libel and defamation. WHY? Is he really that anxious to become a party to to this litigation?

His statements are clearly more than the rhetoric of a simple debate...his analysis is clearly erroneous, incomplete, blind to the truth and it is clearly venomous with a motive. WHY?

I await your report back so we can all better understand the mind of the prosecutor.
There is light in the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!!!

Expectantly....

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Ozzie]

This is Great news- a partial search for truth:

Then is is time for you dig some more and explain just what is the basis for their belief that I was ever told anything by any student 16 years ago that I could have divulged to his employer and cost Greg his job last year?.

The point of this discussion is that it is not clear to either Bob or myself why Greg and Dr Thompson believe we had anything to do with the
1)Loss of his Family
2)Loss of his job.

There is light in the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!!!

Expectantly....

Gailon Arthur Joy

What I am seeing more and more is the truth, the whole truth and NOTHING like the truth Gailon. Unfortunately, this is what I have seen presented so much from the proponents of 3abn and anything to do with 3abn side. 

On the other hand, that which you and Bob have presented, has been backed up with documentation.

[SoulEspresso]

This is Great news- a partial search for truth:

"I did a bit of digging this morning and found that FHB had spent a grand total of 2 weeks of intensive in class time for an online course he was taking.  His being there was coincidental and had nothing whatsoever to do with any of the shenanigans." GrandmaNettie:

Then is is time for you dig some more and explain just what is the basis for their belief that I was ever told anything by any student 16 years ago that I could have divulged to his employer and cost Greg his job last year?.

The point of this discussion is that it is not clear to either Bob or myself why Greg and Dr Thompson believe we had anything to do with the
1)Loss of his Family
2)Loss of his job.

Since you have the ability to "dig" then you have a DUTY to "dig" some more and come up with a real explanation that fits the very clear and accusatory statements.

And, for the record, many of Gregs statements of recent weeks have clearly crossed the line and constitute libel and defamation. WHY? Is he really that anxious to become a party to to this litigation?

His statements are clearly more than the rhetoric of a simple debate...his analysis is clearly erroneous, incomplete, blind to the truth and it is clearly venomous with a motive. WHY?

Gailon,

If you had nothing to do with Greg's loss of family or job, then you had nothing to do with it.  My point is that you don't have to take the bait; it certainly doesn't raise the tone of the discussion. 

Soul

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

"From what we know, what happened at AUC in the early 1990s is totally irrelevant to Danny Shelton's shenanigans at 3ABN.  If this discussion about FHB brings up some dirt on his past, it had better be directly and incontrovertibly connected.  If all this is, is sharing how terrible a person he supposedly is, it will be a real Shame with a capital S ... Shame to Bob and Gailon, Shame to the church, and Shame to those of us who want to see cleanup done in a transparent, Christlike manner." Soul Espresso

Frankly, we do not have any idea what happened 16 years ago at AUC, and we do not know what it is that they have alleged variously that we have done to cost this man his family and his job???

To the very best of our knowledge, I have never spoken to a student about Gregory at any time, let alone 16 years ago. I did not know him then or now!!!

I simply answered AvidWalkers question and trust that the answer stands on it's own.

However, this does not erase the fact that Danny's Brother and the good Doctor Thompson, have posted to the world very clear allegations that I cost this man his
family and his job. THAT IS A FACTUALLY CHALLENGED STATEMENT!!!

We deserve an explanation, a foundation for such outrageous claims...was the foundational source a fabrication designed to ignite the Chairman of the Board to
cross the line and lead 3ABN down the trail of frivolous litigation??? Was the litigation retaliation for the allegations against Tommy and the Loss of a Job by Greg???
How else does one explain twelve SDA Board Members, all SOP Conservatives, crossing the line and hiring a team in Minnesota to conduct a frivolous lawsuite against those calling for reformation???

We search for and deserve answers;

Gailon Arthur Joy

[GrandmaNettie]

"From what we know, what happened at AUC in the early 1990s is totally irrelevant to Danny Shelton's shenanigans at 3ABN.  If this discussion about FHB brings up some dirt on his past, it had better be directly and incontrovertibly connected.  If all this is, is sharing how terrible a person he supposedly is, it will be a real Shame with a capital S ... Shame to Bob and Gailon, Shame to the church, and Shame to those of us who want to see cleanup done in a transparent, Christlike manner." Soul Espresso

Frankly, we do not have any idea what happened 16 years ago at AUC, and we do not know what it is that they have alleged variously that we have done to cost this man his family and his job???

To the very best of our knowledge, I have never spoken to a student about Gregory at any time, let alone 16 years ago. I did not know him then or now!!!

I simply answered AvidWalkers question and trust that the answer stands on it's own.

However, this does not erase the fact that Danny's Brother and the good Doctor Thompson, have posted to the world very clear allegations that I cost this man his
family and his job. THAT IS A FACTUALLY CHALLENGED STATEMENT!!!
We deserve an explanation, a foundation for such outrageous claims...was the foundational source a fabrication designed to ignite the Chairman of the Board to
cross the line and lead 3ABN down the trail of frivolous litigation??? Was the litigation retaliation for the allegations against Tommy and the Loss of a Job by Greg???
How else does one explain twelve SDA Board Members, all SOP Conservatives, crossing the line and hiring a team in Minnesota to conduct a frivolous lawsuite against those calling for reformation???

We search for and deserve answers;

Gailon Arthur Joy

Gailon, I have more information from my "digging" that I will present at the appropriate time, once all involved have given the go-ahead to use it.  In the meantime, I have bolded and adjusted the font size of the part of your post that needs to be addressed.

Please post any links along with the specific text of the "very clear allegations that" you "cost this man his family and his job".  This is a charge that merits showing such documentation.

Chrissie, I'm sorry that you interpreted my calling Daryl "Sir" as heavy handed.  I meant it as respect for his position as owner.

[SoulEspresso]

As I've been working on this post, GrandmaNettie has asked for a link to clear allegations, but I'll go ahead and post this anyway. 

Those "very clear allegations" ... don't look so clear when one examines the grammar of Dr. Walt's original note. 

Taking the first few words of the bolded section, "He has been one of the few", this points to FHB being a part of a small group.
The next three words, "who have been", corroborate that WT was referring to a group.  "Have" is plural.  If he had been referring only to FHB he would have typed "has".  Finally, carefully look at the tense WT uses.  WT is saying that this small group of people have been willing to sacrifice all of the listed things, not that they have necessarily already done so, but that they are indeed willing to do so to stand for truth.

I do beg your pardon if I missed something, but wasn't the correspondence about Ronnie Shelton's allegations private?  If it was private, how can you say they published it to the world?  Your posts, and Bob's, were the first places I read about it.  But I do welcome correction.

We know from a communique we were given nearly a year ago that Danny's brother had claimed that we had cost Greg his job.

A friend wrote the following to me on February 13, 2007, just two days before Danny, Walt, and company announced to the world that they were going to sue:

"[Ronnie Shelton] also said that somehow – he believes that Joy got (I think this is what he said) but got W. Thomson’s son fired from a teaching job because of something he said to a student 15 or so years ago."

I want you to win against 3ABN's lawsuit, and I hope the board meeting today leads to numerous positive changes for the ministry.  But I'm afraid if you keep looking for opportunities to post peripheral issues, especially with this attitude, you'll further damage your own cause, at least in the court of public opinion.  I hope you don't want to become the issue yourself, no offense. 

[GrandmaNettie]

snip

And, for the record, many of Gregs statements of recent weeks have clearly crossed the line and constitute libel and defamation. WHY? Is he really that anxious to become a party to to this litigation?

His statements are clearly more than the rhetoric of a simple debate...his analysis is clearly erroneous, incomplete, blind to the truth and it is clearly venomous with a motive. WHY?

I await your report back so we can all better understand the mind of the prosecutor.
There is light in the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!!!

Expectantly....

Gailon Arthur Joy

Gailon, I have highlighted this portion of on of your recent posts that needs addressing.

You make pointed claims that many of FHB's statements in recent weeks have crossed the line and constitute libel and defamation.  Please post links and the text to clearly show this.

[SoulEspresso]

Having thought about it a bit more, let me add this to clarify my post just above: 

Their private motivations for suing you, Gailon, may not seem peripheral, since it would explain such clear violations of SOP counsel, not to mention other sacred writings like, oh ... say ... The Bible.  But most of us realize that private motives are often unknown to the individual, much less other people.  And it looks to me like speculation in an unkind, accusatory spirit. 

Put another way:  IMO continuing this thread in this manner will undermine your aims.  Telling us what lies they told about you behind the scenes doesn't help you.  It just digs us all further into the mud.