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[guide4him]

Sister.....

[Johann]

Did Linda and Danny not also travel together to Florida during this period? What happened then - to Danny?

What about the trips that Danny made to Florida without Linda? Brandy lived in Florida...

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Do I not recall that Linda and Brenda et al, went with the 3ABN team to Florida and DLS was a late comer showing up in the afternoon on Saturday?

Out of curiosity, anyone recall where that rally was held? Any chance it was close to Tampa area?

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReorter

[Bob Pickle]

The visit that began Brenda’s roving tale was in December of 2003 to visit her son who was being detoxed at a clinic in Norway run by Dr. Arild Abrahamsen.  It was at this visit that the invitation went to both Brenda and Linda to have they and their husbands join Arild at his Florida Condo the week of the Orthodox Easter.

I think it was in Dec. 2003 that Arild visited 3ABN. The trip to Norway ended on Feb. 6, 2004. See http://www.save-3abn.com/danny-shelton-demise-of-marriage-1.htm.

So there aren't many weekends available for running off to Florida, especially since the tickets Brenda had 3ABN buy were for a trip on April 4. Any hypothetical alter trip would have to be after April 4 but before late May, and preferably a couple weeks before Danny found the pregnancy test.

[childoftheking]

http://web.archive.org/web/20040208170940/www.3abn.org/

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Wow, Child, should have read my own archived story!!!

Thanks for the Link.

No response regarding the new visit hypothesis, huh???

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

[Johann]

No response regarding the new visit hypothesis, huh???

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

If they had it they would have produced it several years back. So here we have a document that they are lying, but just are not ready to admit it yet. Right, Cindy?

[Nosir Myzing]

No response regarding the new visit hypothesis, huh???

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

If they had it they would have produced it several years back. So here we have a document that they are lying, but just are not ready to admit it yet. Right, Cindy?

You may be waiting awhile, Joy. It appears that the place and conditions of a dialogue with you were removed from a post here and possibly even the poster if "toodles" from Snoopy means what I am presuming it does.

Cindy, did post something in reply to you earlier, Johann. It's below, since you keep claiming not to read there while replying to things said there. Possibly there may be more from myself or others as I see all kinds of errors in Joy's account and no documentation at all.

quote="Cynthia" in " New lies? Same ole lies..."
 I was reading on Adventtalk, in the thread Johann started there entitled "New lies" and there are so many things on that forum that make you go hmmm...

Johan posted:« on: March 02, 2011, 04:24:33 PM »
my first wife, Irmgard, and I, spent all the time during the spring of 2004 with Dr. Arild Abrahamsen that a certain Danny Shelton claimed in his writings to me that Linda was together with the Doctor in Florida. When I refused to verify his claims and thereby doubting his universal knowledge of everything he got so angry that he had Walt Thompson fire me.

[Note:That is NOT why Johann was fired - quite obviously he couldn't be 3ABNs representative and promote them in Europe as he was hired to do while he was acting with bias and partiality against them and had become their accuser and refused to even listen to them or put the ministry first as he was repeatedly asked to do.]


Then he claimed that again:

Re: NEW LIES
Johan posted:« Reply #21 on: Yesterday at 07:22:34 AM »
  Not only that, but Irmgard and I were staying with Dr. Arild Abrhamsen in Norway during all of that time Danny Shelton insisted he was in Florida together with Linda.

So Pat asked him a simple question, when was it that he was claiming that Danny insisted to him that Linda was in Florida? He should know, right? Since he is claiming that isn't possible because he was with the Doctor in Norway at that same time.

Re: NEW LIES
« Reply #23 on: Yesterday at 07:39:36 AM »
See? This is one of those issues. What time was it when Danny insisted, according to you, that Linda was in Florida with the Doctor? Can you document that? For the earlier planned trip was canceled and didn't take place according to all, ON BOTH SIDES.(including DS, who wrote to you about that, and others, many times,certainly he never claimed Linda was there then, for he said he had found out about and foiled that trip) And according to Dr A,in his public letter, you and your wife were there during easter vacation week during that cancelled trip... There was reportedly more than one trip planned to Florida, and there was reportedly only one time that Linda was gone and unaccounted for and unresponsive and that was the time when her mother called and left a message for Linda on DS and LS's answering machine regarding her being in Florida. Were you and Irmgard with the Doctor then, Johann? When was that? Tell everyone, please as it is documented.

But, instead of answering, Johann asks Pat to tell him when it was, and says he'll check on it. What?!? He shouldn't have to ask . He has always claimed to know when it was! He's been posting for years now saying Danny insisted she went to Florida to see Arild Abrahamsson but she couldn't have because he was with the Doctor then.
 

Re: NEW LIES
Johan posted: « Reply #26 on: Yesterday at 11:59:54 AM »   
Very easy, Pat. Until now there has never been a document for any trip by both Arild and Linda to anywhere before the divorce. You give the time Linda is suposed to be gone, and we will check it. Is that fair enough?

No, that is not fair enough. Either Johann is her alibi or he is NOT her alibi. How can he claim to have been her alibi and claim that's how he knows Danny lied for all these years if he doesn't even know when it was supposed to have been?

It is Johann who owes an answer here before he has the right to ask questions of others. Johann claimed:

"my first wife, Irmgard, and I, spent all the time during the spring of 2004 with Dr. Arild Abrahamsen that a certain Danny Shelton claimed in his writings to me that Linda was together with the Doctor in Florida"

What would be fair is for Johann to produce those writings he is making claims about, and answer the question he was asked instead of ignoring the question and avoiding that by asking his own and pretending that's reasonable and fair. It's not. Nor is this tactic new.../quote




 

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Sir Mizer:

We quite adequately addressed the issue in production of documents (3ABNvJoy.com) and in releases on Save-3ABN.net. Of course we had originally had done this timeline in anticipation of the ASI Hearing, but Danny simply didn't have the guts to face it on a level playing field!!! And even produced evidence of the tickets!!! Ain't it great???

If you missed them, give it a careful read...then see if you can fit in this belated new hypothesis of a new date, before the Campmeeting of May 2004...let your imagination go absolutely wild...but you must produce the ticket proof...BEST OF LUCK!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

[childoftheking]

Wow, Child, should have read my own archived story!!!

Thanks for the Link.

No response regarding the new visit hypothesis, huh???

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

I would love to read your own archived story.

[Johann]

No response regarding the new visit hypothesis, huh???

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

If they had it they would have produced it several years back. So here we have a document that they are lying, but just are not ready to admit it yet. Right, Cindy?

You may be waiting awhile, Joy. It appears that the place and conditions of a dialogue with you were removed from a post here and possibly even the poster if "toodles" from Snoopy means what I am presuming it does.

Cindy, did post something in reply to you earlier, Johann. It's below, since you keep claiming not to read there while replying to things said there. Possibly there may be more from myself or others as I see all kinds of errors in Joy's account and no documentation at all.

quote="Cynthia" in " New lies? Same ole lies..."
 I was reading on Adventtalk, in the thread Johann started there entitled "New lies" and there are so many things on that forum that make you go hmmm...

Johan posted:« on: March 02, 2011, 04:24:33 PM »
my first wife, Irmgard, and I, spent all the time during the spring of 2004 with Dr. Arild Abrahamsen that a certain Danny Shelton claimed in his writings to me that Linda was together with the Doctor in Florida. When I refused to verify his claims and thereby doubting his universal knowledge of everything he got so angry that he had Walt Thompson fire me.

[Note:That is NOT why Johann was fired - quite obviously he couldn't be 3ABNs representative and promote them in Europe as he was hired to do while he was acting with bias and partiality against them and had become their accuser and refused to even listen to them or put the ministry first as he was repeatedly asked to do.]


Then he claimed that again:

Re: NEW LIES
Johan posted:« Reply #21 on: Yesterday at 07:22:34 AM »
  Not only that, but Irmgard and I were staying with Dr. Arild Abrhamsen in Norway during all of that time Danny Shelton insisted he was in Florida together with Linda.

So Pat asked him a simple question, when was it that he was claiming that Danny insisted to him that Linda was in Florida? He should know, right? Since he is claiming that isn't possible because he was with the Doctor in Norway at that same time.

Re: NEW LIES
« Reply #23 on: Yesterday at 07:39:36 AM »
See? This is one of those issues. What time was it when Danny insisted, according to you, that Linda was in Florida with the Doctor? Can you document that? For the earlier planned trip was canceled and didn't take place according to all, ON BOTH SIDES.(including DS, who wrote to you about that, and others, many times,certainly he never claimed Linda was there then, for he said he had found out about and foiled that trip) And according to Dr A,in his public letter, you and your wife were there during easter vacation week during that cancelled trip... There was reportedly more than one trip planned to Florida, and there was reportedly only one time that Linda was gone and unaccounted for and unresponsive and that was the time when her mother called and left a message for Linda on DS and LS's answering machine regarding her being in Florida. Were you and Irmgard with the Doctor then, Johann? When was that? Tell everyone, please as it is documented.

But, instead of answering, Johann asks Pat to tell him when it was, and says he'll check on it. What?!? He shouldn't have to ask . He has always claimed to know when it was! He's been posting for years now saying Danny insisted she went to Florida to see Arild Abrahamsson but she couldn't have because he was with the Doctor then.
 

Re: NEW LIES
Johan posted: « Reply #26 on: Yesterday at 11:59:54 AM »  
Very easy, Pat. Until now there has never been a document for any trip by both Arild and Linda to anywhere before the divorce. You give the time Linda is suposed to be gone, and we will check it. Is that fair enough?

No, that is not fair enough. Either Johann is her alibi or he is NOT her alibi. How can he claim to have been her alibi and claim that's how he knows Danny lied for all these years if he doesn't even know when it was supposed to have been?

It is Johann who owes an answer here before he has the right to ask questions of others. Johann claimed:

"my first wife, Irmgard, and I, spent all the time during the spring of 2004 with Dr. Arild Abrahamsen that a certain Danny Shelton claimed in his writings to me that Linda was together with the Doctor in Florida"

What would be fair is for Johann to produce those writings he is making claims about, and answer the question he was asked instead of ignoring the question and avoiding that by asking his own and pretending that's reasonable and fair. It's not. Nor is this tactic new.../quote




 

What would you do with Danny's message?

There is absolutely no response in anythng you write. Same method as you people have been doing right from the beginning. Avoiding the real issue.

Dr. Arild Abrhamsen makes the claim that he has never been to Florida since some time before his wife died in August of 2003.  Now you claim he has. You are guilty of making a false statement unless you can substantiate your claim.

Your attempt at throwing dust in the eyes of your readers by mentioning that Linda's mother had talked into the phone answering machine. But you did not give the date of that recording because that would foil your attempt at indicating there is some sense left in your claims.

Or do none of the people who were close enough to see "everything" notice the huge discrepancies in the information they are handing over to you? Is it easier to see that at a great distance?

Get down to business and verify some of your claims.

[Nosir Myzing]

That's not working, Johann. You are accusing another of what you yourself are doing and is the "Same method as you people have been doing right from the beginning. Avoiding the real issue."

First you answer the initial question asked of you, then you get to ask your follow up question and get an answer. So, to quote you again: "Get down to business and verify some of your claims."

Your claims here, were these:

Johan posted:« on: March 02, 2011, 04:24:33 PM »
"my first wife, Irmgard, and I, spent all the time during the spring of 2004 with Dr. Arild Abrahamsen that a certain Danny Shelton claimed in his writings to me that Linda was together with the Doctor in Florida.

Johan posted:« Reply #21 on: Yesterday at 07:22:34 AM »
 " Not only that, but Irmgard and I were staying with Dr. Arild Abrhamsen in Norway during all of that time Danny Shelton insisted he was in Florida together with Linda."

You were asked When? what was the date you claim Danny insisted Linda was in Florida with the Doctor? What was that date you are claiming you were with the Doctor instead and so are the alibi for Arild Abrahamsson and Linda? and you were asked for the documentation you claim exists in the writings of Danny Shelton concerning that date.

For years you have called Danny a liar because of this, and for years you have caused others to call him a liar because of your personal testimony about this, so again, you are being asked to "Get down to business and verify some of your claims."

edited to fix quotes

[Bob Pickle]

There was reportedly more than one trip planned to Florida, and there was reportedly only one time that Linda was gone and unaccounted for and unresponsive and that was the time when her mother called and left a message for Linda on DS and LS's answering machine regarding her being in Florida.

Please date this alleged second planned trip to Florida. When was it? When did Linda's mother leave that alleged message?

Your failure to respond with a concrete date will be taken as firm evidence that you have none.

I certainly have never been able to find any other date for an alleged trip to Florida.

Yesir Myzing,

Would you care to answer the question that Pat Williams thus far refuses to answer? Hint: It would have to be between April 6 and the end of May, but could not fall on dates that Linda is known to have been elsewhere than Florida.

[Nosir Myzing]

No response regarding the new visit hypothesis, huh???

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

    
A start, quoting:
Re: New lies? Same ole lies...
Postby Jamie » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:21 pm UTC

Joy's post over there is full of errors as I said, and it starts with the very first paragraph of the yarn he is spinning and continues from there with more errors or falsehoods.

I am rather busy but would at least like to address that first part briefly right now.

He posted:

Obviously, it is important to revisit the first five months of 2004 and let her know how we came to the conclusion that we have published in some detail, including documentation.

The visit that began Brenda’s roving tale was in December of 2003 to visit her son who was being detoxed at a clinic in Norway run by Dr. Arild Abrahamsen.  It was at this visit that the invitation went to both Brenda and Linda to have they and their husbands join Arild at his Florida Condo the week of the Orthodox Easter. We have documented that it was Brenda who was obviously quite excited about the vacation option and is the party that actually ordered the tickets. We have also documented that Linda’s ticket was not used. Both facts clearly refute the tall tales of Brenda Walsh and demonstrate her clear capacity to stretch the truth

Noticeably he does not include any documentation with his post, and even though he boasts they have already done so elsewhere he doesn't cite it or quote where, and that's simply not good enough, and perhaps that is why he is in error here from the get go.

1. The visit to Norway when Nathan went for treatment was the first week in February 2004, not in December 2003
2. It was NOT during that visit that the invitation for the first Florida trip was made by the Doctor.
3. The invitation was NOT to Linda, and to Brenda and their spouses. It was originally to Linda only, and she never even told Danny about it.
4. Brenda was invited by Linda afterwords, and it was Brenda who was instrumental in the trip being canceled.

Linda Shelton can rebut Joy's story all by herself. Here is just one letter doing so , documentation which Pickle and Joy and Johann have, as she was writing to Johann at the time, back in April of 2004

The invitation was made to Linda only in February, who later added Brenda, according to both Linda and Brenda:

-----Original Message-----
From: Linda Shelton
Sent: 16. april 2004 16:18
To: Johann Thorvaldsson
Subject: Re: Greetings
Hi Johann & Irmgard,
This is the partial story of the events I told you I was going to record. I think it helps clear up alot of
problems...

It was a miracle when I was able to convince Nathan to go and see Dr. Abrahamsen while he was here.
He tested Nathan and, of course, discovered that he was in a terrible physical condition. He said, "I think
I can help you but you would need to come to Norway." Somewhere in the conversation he offered
Nathan a place to stay and also treatments which would help him physically...and Nathan actually agreed
to go. It was scheduled for Nathan and his girlfriend, Dava, to go about January 21. I talked to this doctor
only a couple of times making the arrangements for this trip. Dan’s opinion was that the doctor sounded
like a "quack" but he thought just a month away from his friends would help.

Next, my best friend (of two years), Brenda and I flew to Norway to give Nathan support. We arrived
on Monday night February 2 and we left Friday morning, February 6. I was amazed at the difference in
Nathan’s appearance in only 10 days. He was gaining weight, his scars were healing and his attitude was
100% improved. I praised God that finally my miracle had come for my son. Afterwards, when home
again, I called to check on Nathan about twice a week...

Brenda and I had a pleasant visit with the doctor while we stayed in his home. He had lost his wife just
last August, and when he got home from work, in the evenings we were able to make him laugh and get
his mind off of his sorrows. He invited Brenda to come back in June for treatments, since she was in a
bad physical condition...he even offered to pay for her plane ticket. When Brenda and I left Norway, we
both felt we had gained a friend...

"At some point in February I was sharing with the doctor about how busy we were at 3ABN with
traveling and schedules and he said, "You know, I’m going to Florida over spring break, and you ought to
think about going down there to get some rest." I just changed the subject because I thought it would
never fit into my schedule anyway.... A week later when the doctor returned from
Africa, I mentioned to him that Brenda and I thought we’d go to Florida. He had totally forgotten
anything about it. But he agreed to go and he offered to provide his condominium as a place for us to
stay...Additionally, at the time of scheduling our tickets, Dan was not in a good mood, so I did not
mention to him that the doctor would be in Florida at the same time. However about two weeks later
after Brenda talked with Dan, she came to me and said "Dan is getting pretty irate about you talking to
the doctor. We better cancel him." I immediately agreed. However, he offered the condo for us to stay in
although he wouldn’t be there."

From a Notorized statement by Ida Smith recounting her "alleged" conversation with Brenda Walsh, in Pickle and Joy's possession and filed in court by them:

She said, yes she was Linda's friend who went to Norway to see Nathan but Linda had only used her. When they got off the plane the Doctor and Nathan was there to meet them. Linda took off running and ran right into the Doctors arms and threw her arms around his neck and he lifted Linda up in the air and swung her around in the air. They went to the Doctors house to stay. It had 2 bedrooms and Brenda and  Linda shared a bed in the one bedroom. At 2:00 AM Brenda got awoke and  realized Linda was gone. Soon she (Brenda) heard Linda and the Doctor in the next bedroom laughing and having fun. Brenda was very hurt and sad and began to cry and pray for Linda until 5:00 AM. Brenda said Linda paid Nathan $500.00 just so Linda could go to Norway to see the Dr.

When they got home Linda wanted Brenda to go to Florida and take their lap-top computers so they could get alot of work done on the books they were both writing. Then Brenda found out  Dr Abrahamsson was going to be there also and Brenda asked Linda what Dan thought about the Dr going to be there. Linda hadn't told Dan. ...Brenda thought Dan had a right to know these things so Brenda told him.

More to come... end of quote

[Bob Pickle]

There was reportedly more than one trip planned to Florida, and there was reportedly only one time that Linda was gone and unaccounted for and unresponsive and that was the time when her mother called and left a message for Linda on DS and LS's answering machine regarding her being in Florida.

Please date this alleged second planned trip to Florida. When was it? When did Linda's mother leave that alleged message?

Your failure to respond with a concrete date will be taken as firm evidence that you have none.

I certainly have never been able to find any other date for an alleged trip to Florida.

Yesir Myzing,

Would you care to answer the question that Pat Williams thus far refuses to answer? Hint: It would have to be between April 6 and the end of May, but could not fall on dates that Linda is known to have been elsewhere than Florida.

Yesir Myzing,

It looks like a distraction tactic on your part to be pointing out where Gailon has forgotten some details, while neglecting the all important point of when Pat William's alleged second trip to Florida was.

PLEASE, tell us when the alleged second trip took place. Without an actual second trip, Brenda's tale is a lie.