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[Artiste]

Say, they have not given notice of Appeal to the Illinois Supreme Court. Someone want to check on that next week and see if 3ABN feels they have had enough yet? Given the standard operating procedure, I would expect them to appeal to the Illinois Supreme Court and then seek Certiorari to the US Supreme Court.

Then there is the other tax case that they also challenged.

Anyone know where we can get a copy of the D. Michael Riva letter to the former Mayor of Thompsonville?

Gailon Arthur Joy

Are there two 3ABN tax cases, Gailon?

[Ozzie]

Say, they have not given notice of Appeal to the Illinois Supreme Court. Someone want to check on that next week and see if 3ABN feels they have had enough yet? Given the standard operating procedure, I would expect them to appeal to the Illinois Supreme Court and then seek Certiorari to the US Supreme Court.

Then there is the other tax case that they also challenged.

Anyone know where we can get a copy of the D. Michael Riva letter to the former Mayor of Thompsonville?

Gailon Arthur Joy

Are there two 3ABN tax cases, Gailon?

    

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Say, they have not given notice of Appeal to the Illinois Supreme Court. Someone want to check on that next week and see if 3ABN feels they have had enough yet? Given the standard operating procedure, I would expect them to appeal to the Illinois Supreme Court and then seek Certiorari to the US Supreme Court.

Then there is the other tax case that they also challenged.

Anyone know where we can get a copy of the D. Michael Riva letter to the former Mayor of Thompsonville?

Gailon Arthur Joy

Are there two 3ABN tax cases, Gailon?

In fact there are two. This is the only one to move from the administrative law decision to the Illionois Circuit Court for findings and then De Novo to the Illinois Court of Appeals. The three decisions all clearly have similarities, each with some very specific emphasis on some issues versus the other.
Each decisively finds that 3ABN was a Shelton Business and each determined they did not qualify for tax exemption.

The Shelton Business assertions clearly support our findings and arguments regarding governance.

When will they ever learn...when will they-y-y ever learn!!!

Oh, I forgot to mention, remember that the auditors and those lawyers in Minnesota gave 3ABN a CLEAN BILL OF HEALTH...do you believe it if you saw the Illinois Circuit Court opinion???

I still think it is time for the GC Auditiing group to do an audit and I would love to see THEIR REPORT.

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Johann]

Each decisively finds that 3ABN was a Shelton Business and each determined they did not qualify for tax exemption.

The Shelton Business assertions clearly support our findings and arguments regarding governance.

When will they ever learn...when will they-y-y ever learn!!!

Oh, I forgot to mention, remember that the auditors and those lawyers in Minnesota gave 3ABN a CLEAN BILL OF HEALTH...do you believe it if you saw the Illinois Circuit Court opinion???

I still think it is time for the GC Auditiing group to do an audit and I would love to see THEIR REPORT.

Gailon Arthur Joy

People are asking if this will change the 3ABN status as recipients of tax deductible gifts. Is that a seperate issue?

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Each decisively finds that 3ABN was a Shelton Business and each determined they did not qualify for tax exemption.

The Shelton Business assertions clearly support our findings and arguments regarding governance.

When will they ever learn...when will they-y-y ever learn!!!

Oh, I forgot to mention, remember that the auditors and those lawyers in Minnesota gave 3ABN a CLEAN BILL OF HEALTH...do you believe it if you saw the Illinois Circuit Court opinion???

I still think it is time for the GC Auditiing group to do an audit and I would love to see THEIR REPORT.

Gailon Arthur Joy

People are asking if this will change the 3ABN status as recipients of tax deductible gifts. Is that a seperate issue?

It is a seperate issue, but the findings will most certainly get notice by the IRS/DOJ  investigators.
It may well be a major foundation for a challenge to 3ABN, even in a civil action.

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Snoopy]

Each decisively finds that 3ABN was a Shelton Business and each determined they did not qualify for tax exemption.

The Shelton Business assertions clearly support our findings and arguments regarding governance.

When will they ever learn...when will they-y-y ever learn!!!

Oh, I forgot to mention, remember that the auditors and those lawyers in Minnesota gave 3ABN a CLEAN BILL OF HEALTH...do you believe it if you saw the Illinois Circuit Court opinion???

I still think it is time for the GC Auditiing group to do an audit and I would love to see THEIR REPORT.

Gailon Arthur Joy

People are asking if this will change the 3ABN status as recipients of tax deductible gifts. Is that a seperate issue?

It is separate, but very related, Johann.  We'll have to wait for the IRS ruling to get that answer.  In the meantime, I'm not sending them a penny!!

[Daryl Fawcett]

Could it be that this is more the reason why their donations have dropped than what was placed on any of the save3abn websites and the forums?

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Could it be that this is more the reason why their donations have dropped than what was placed on any of the save3abn websites and the forums?

There is a growing body of evidense when compared to time lines that there were several events from 2000 on that were having serious impacts upon the giving at various times. Save3ABN was just another annoyance, and the most visible. To add insult to injury, we would not be intimidated. That meant we had to be exterminated. This was rebellion against the "annointed ones", notice the plural is no accident.

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Bob Pickle]

Anyone know where we can get a copy of the D. Michael Riva letter to the former Mayor of Thompsonville?

Riva doesn't just send nasty letters to non-Adventist pastors in order to silence their concerns about child molestation. He also frightens elderly mayors who claim to be just trying to do their job. Poor guy had to leave office early, I'm told.

I was told big bully Danny said he could buy the whole town of Thompsonville, but I was told he was told in response that the town isn't for sale.

Seems a couple Adventist investigators got a hold of that nasty Riva letter before Gailon and I came along.

[Chrissie]

Seems a couple Adventist investigators got a hold of that nasty Riva letter before Gailon and I came along.

Every dog will have its day! 

[reader]

What helps me is the belief that everything that the devil does can and will be turned by God into a blessing in the end. This is no excuse for doing wrong, but shows me what love can do and how much stronger love is than sin and satan. Satan is a looser. His selfishness has been overcome, and drowned by everlasting love.

[Ozzie]

What helps me is the belief that everything that the devil does can and will be turned by God into a blessing in the end. This is no excuse for doing wrong, but shows me what love can do and how much stronger love is than sin and satan. Satan is a looser. His selfishness has been overcome, and drowned by everlasting love.

This is the one fact that keeps many of us going Reader. Without that assurance, life would be just too hard.

[Johann]

What helps me is the belief that everything that the devil does can and will be turned by God into a blessing in the end. This is no excuse for doing wrong, but shows me what love can do and how much stronger love is than sin and satan. Satan is a looser. His selfishness has been overcome, and drowned by everlasting love.

Well stated Reader. This is the essence of the battle, and we'd better believe it.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

What helps me is the belief that everything that the devil does can and will be turned by God into a blessing in the end. This is no excuse for doing wrong, but shows me what love can do and how much stronger love is than sin and satan. Satan is a looser. His selfishness has been overcome, and drowned by everlasting love.

Keep in mind, Reader,


Love is a delicate balance between Mercy and Justiice. Yes, their is a justice side to Love, most particularly God's Love. And, Mercy is only available when Justice has been served. When one recognizes what he is really guilty of and recognizes the real penalty he should face, that is when
the guilty party gets to reach out and request Mercy.

One of the great problems in modern Adventism is that we have abrogated Justice and adopted
a false religion of unlimited Mercy. This is fatal and it's affects are clearly being felt by a church
that is racked by one mess after another. The book Who Watches? Who cares? reviews just seven of these examples but the lessons and their longterm impact still haunt us today.

In fact, I had one lady who reviewed the book and pointed out that so much of that history was similar to the history of 3ABN and the way these issues were dealt with had paved the way to allow Danny Lee Shelton to go undisciplined and unaccountable for so long. After all, if the miscreants of so many administrators went unpunished, why would Danny Lee Shelton not be able to get away with his actions, hopefully unnoticed.

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Artiste]

One of the great problems in modern Adventism is that we have abrogated Justice and adopted a false religion of unlimited Mercy. This is fatal and it's affects are clearly being felt by a church that is racked by one mess after another. The book Who Watches? Who cares? reviews just seven of these examples but the lessons and their longterm impact still haunt us today.

I have heard it said that attitudes and practices in the church swing like a pendulum historically between either too liberal or too legalistic. 

It is hard to find a happy medium.