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This statement is true

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This statement is false

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This statement is true and I know of specific examples of conservatives being guilty of this in the SDA Church

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Total Members Voted: 2

[mrst53]

Jise,
 I am sorry that you have apparently run into alot of "bad" representatives of the SDA Church. If you have been reading long,than you know that I have posted that I have run into many in the other churches as well. I am sorry that these men have disappointed you. but then MEN will. Apparently you have been in situations that others of us have not been in, and if I may say so, hope not to be in. You have seen things that you will never forget and no one should have seen or been thru. I am sorry that you have been thru this and I pray that the Lord will help you forget. You must be in a situation where you come into contact with these ministers of the SDA, that many of the others on this site don't, so therefore you also see the the inner workings of the church and also the failings of these ministers.  These men don't need to be in their positions, but convincing others above them is very hard, when they don't want to listen. The most we can do is tell those above the problem and then turn the rest over to the Lord. The Bible says"Vengence is Mine" God will take care of it, in the end, even tho we get impatient...

[Johann]

....an then they hired one.....E. E. Cleveland by the time the 60's rolled around. 

It must have been around 1960 when  I sat at a dining table in a private home with E. E. Cleveland. Our family was invited because we had met him before. What a lovely person!

Lo! some we loved, the loveliest and best
That Time and Fate of all their Vintage prest,
Have drunk their Cup a Round or two before,
And one by one crept silently to Rest.
Edward Fitzgerald

[tinka]

tinka,
If the Lord convicted me, that wearing my wedding ring or my earings was a sin, I would take them off. Also, if He convicted me that wearing them was causing someone else from coming to Him, I would also take them off. So far, He has not done that. I do not dress plain, like the Amish or Mennonites because the Lord has not convicted me to do that, nor has He convicted me to live as a vegetarian as you do. WHEN AND IF He does I will change my diet. What the Lord tells you to do, is different than me. The scripture says to work out our own salvation before the Lord. Each of us is different. Each one of us have different gifts and God uses us in different ways. For you to wear jewely is wrong, because the Lord has told you it is wrong. I would not try to tell you different. My walk with Jesus is personal and I listen to Him. Sometimes He has to knock me up beside the head, but He gets His point accross.

Di, and Mrst53 who is not SDA to review our stance on Jewelry although some SDA's do not take this of value for their own "vanities sake".
In case you have not read this thought I would insert here the connection or stance to Bible reference from EGW. So therefore it is very strange for me to see how SDA people can make their own justifications of wearing jewelry, rings and things here in a free country of choice and not traditional heathen customs.


"Were our sisters conscientious Bible Christians, seeking to improve every opportunity to enlighten others, we should see scores of souls embracing the truth through their self-sacrificing endeavors alone. Sisters, in the day when the accounts of all are balanced, will you feel a pleasure in reviewing your life, or will you feel that the beauty of the outward man was sought, while the inward beauty of the soul was almost entirely neglected?  {4T 629.4}
     Have not our sisters sufficient zeal and moral courage to place themselves without excuse upon the Bible platform? The apostle has given most explicit directions on this point: I will therefore . . . that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; but (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works." Here the Lord, through His apostle, speaks expressly against the wearing of gold. Let those who have had experience see to it that they do not lead others astray on this point by their example. That ring encircling your finger may be very plain, but it is useless, and the wearing of it has a wrong influence upon others.  {4T 630.1}
     Especially should the wives of our ministers be careful not to depart from the plain teachings of the Bible on the point of dress. Many look upon these injunctions as too old-fashioned to be worthy of notice; but He who gave them to His disciples understood the dangers from the love of dress in our time and sent to us the note of warning. Will we heed the warning and be wise? Extravagance in dress is continually increasing. The end is not yet. Fashion is constantly changing,
                                                                            631
and our sisters follow in its wake, regardless of time or expense. There is a great amount of means expended upon dress, when it should be returned to God the giver.  {4T 630.2}
     The plain, neat dress of the poorer class often appears in marked contrast with the attire of their more wealthy sisters, and this difference frequently causes a feeling of embarrassment on the part of the poor. Some try to imitate their more wealthy sisters, and frill and ruffle and trim goods of an inferior quality so as to approach as nearly as possible to them in dress. Poor girls, receiving but two dollars a week for their work, will expend every cent to dress like others who are not obliged to earn their own living. These youth have nothing to put into the treasury of God. And their time is so thoroughly occupied in making their dress as fashionable as that of their sisters that they have no time for the improvement of the mind, for the study of God's word, for secret prayer, or for the prayer meeting. The mind is entirely taken up with planning how to appear as well as their sisters. To accomplish this end, physical, mental, and moral health is sacrificed. Happiness and the favor of God are laid upon the altar of fashion.  {4T 631.1}
     Many will not attend the service of God upon the Sabbath because their dress would appear so unlike that of their Christian sisters in style and adornment. Will my sisters consider these things as they are, and will they fully realize the weight of their influence upon others? By walking in a forbidden path themselves, they lead others in the same way of disobedience and backsliding. Christian simplicity is sacrificed to outward display. My sisters, how shall we change all this? How shall we recover ourselves from the snare of Satan and break the chains that have bound us in slavery to fashion? How shall we recover our wasted opportunities? how bring our powers into healthful, vigorous action? There is only one way, and that is to make the Bible our rule of life. All should work earnestly to do good to others, watch unto prayer, take up the long-neglected cross, and heed the warnings and injunctions of Him who has said: "Whosoever will come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me."
                                                                            632
 {4T 631.2}
     My Christian sisters, face the mirror, the law of God, and test your course of action by the first four commandments. These explicitly define our duty to God. He claims the undivided affections; and anything which tends to absorb the mind and divert it from God assumes the form of an idol. The true and living God is crowded out of the thoughts and heart, and the soul-temple is defiled by the worship of other gods before the Lord. "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me," says the commandment. Let us search the heart, compare the life and character with the statutes and precepts of Jehovah, and then seek diligently to correct our errors.  {4T 632.1}"

[Johann]

In my childhood I regarded my mother as one of the few church females who would make it to heaven because of her modesty and wearing no jewelry. At the age of 15 I moved to Norway and there I found that most women in the church were just as fit for heaven as my mother.

At the age of 19 I moved to the United States and what did I discover there? With red books in one hand and a black one in the other people in our churches were raging against jewelry, and yet in my estimation they were so deluded that they had no chance for heaven. Why?

Most of those women raging against jewelry were using fake "jewelry" painted all over their faces, nails, and toenails. I wondered what kind of heaven was their destiny? And then their dresses in various hues and colors. I started wondered if solid gold wasn't preferable to perishable paint?

How about the men? It seemed to me like they understood Ellen White as verbally inspired. The rules agains jewelry applied only to females and not to males. They exhibited their costly golden watches, cuff links, tie clips, (not to mention their new cars) - as long as the gold was not around the finger!!! And they still held the books in their hands reading loudly the condemnation on all of those not following the Spirit of Prophecy.

Where is consistency? Where is godliness? Is it all connected with the exterior?

[mrst53]

tinka,
I am not going to argue with you, but I do have one question, do you wear a watch?

[tinka]

Actually Mrst, I don't, and not because I am against having a watch. They are all decorated into bracelets by now anyway. I have had a couple of cheapies that my daughter got me for mothers day a year or two but could not get used to wearing it. The reason I do not even wear a plain band or the cheapy is because in busy ness of working it always seemed to bother me to have something tagged on to my wrist. Making bread, pies or cooking gardening or whatever would only get messed up anyway. I have a clock in every room in the direction of working. Having a big family and business ----always time was of essence and on time for everything was a way of getting all done. Dr's & Nurses and I think pastors must wear a watch and many other type of situations and work out of necessity. It was never necessary for me. Actually, cooking everyday for big family keeps the time for you as the oven directs your time into habit. I wasn't trying to argue, just wanted Di to read what she committed to in her belief of SDA. and thought maybe you might understand SDA if I brought out the Bible stance in clear tones and Mrs. Whites' inspired writing giving a reasonable reason behind why we should follow the Biblical scripture in our manner of stewardship of ones self in money, dress and vanity.  I conclude and understand that most people do not consider the finer details in everyday living and most believe that the only thing you have to do is believe there is God and the rest comes. But usually an SDA believes in everyday study to learn the walk in the footsteps of Jesus. It brings truth where we are not guessing such as surmising about deep details. It was so sad as you probably seen the little girl that was shot in Arizona. I was amazed to think that anyone could come up with such a statement when her mother stated over national TV that she was much more needed in heaven!
Could anyone possibly give a reason for what?? How could she be happy in heaven and look down in sadness of all the sorrow here? That is against scripture and people do not even fathom it is wrong belief. as scripture is right up front and direct plain as day word for word on this. I just don't like living everyday to my own needs and wants and forget there is much to learn if I am interested in eternity and if I can help anyone to make it too, I want to be sure it is truth and not just like the people that lost their daughter, which was so horrible and sad. Will we be held accountable for false doctrine?? sure will! The "Word" is plentiful and everywhere in a time of freedom which is now slipping quickly. I have no right to think of Eternity unless I search for the one that Gives it and His will.....then do it. (smile) and that takes help from Him. (smile)

[Jise]

http://news.adventist.org/2011/01/-the-growth-rate-of.html

This link from Adventist News is an example of how condescending some Adventists can be to contemporary forms of worship - without presenting any biblical basis for their assertions that "contemporary" worship waters down the message- what many adventists fail to admit is -that their anti-communitarian ethos here in the US - and their conservative political "theology" is laden with moral compromise.  I read somewhere that a prominent Adventist was quoted in a newspaper this week as defending the Adventist stance on non-condemnation for abortions in being supported in Ellen. W's teaching and in the assertion that the bible is silent on abortion - I don't know if this is true- but the bible is silent on whether or not Gospel music, but particularly, clapping, dancing and drumming are wrong in terms of Church worship.  Interesting that adventists can "make up" rules- rather than make their conservative members adhere to the actual 10 commandments.  The bible actually encourages dancing and clapping in worship but is clear about dishonesty, killing, murder, etc.

[Jise]

The Adventist church which has a high abundance of its pastors implicated in genocides -is interesting for the fact, that it is more of a crime to listen to Walter Hawkins or KirK Franklin, that it is to fornicate, bear false witness against others, exploit others or be an adventist Pastor implicated in genocides if one is conservative.  I never met such moral hypocrisy until I came to the SDA Church.  In the Baptist churches and other Church denominations, these denominations may not have had all of the adventist creeds correct, or all of bibiblical doctrine correct (the SDA Church does not have all biblical doctrine correct) but the people were genuine in their christianity -and genuine period.  In my view, Ted Wilson really seems to be celebrating moral compromise.

[christined]

Jise, I realize that you have the privilege of writing what you want on this forum, but I am really tired of reading the same negative thoughts hashed over again and again.  Do you think you could find something positive to say. 

[Bob Pickle]

Jise,

The grass looks greener over on the other side, till you actually become better acquainted with it. Sometimes I've thought that certain other groups looked like they really had it together, only to be disappointed.

[Johann]

Jise, I realize that you have the privilege of writing what you want on this forum, but I am really tired of reading the same negative thoughts hashed over again and again.  Do you think you could find something positive to say. 

 



 

[Jise]

Some of the Conservatives- like William Johnsson - who was affiliated with the Adventist Review - have been promoting moral compromise - in that they have essentially pointed to sectors of Adventism that are little different than peoples in the bible - whose culture and way of life were defined by sexual immorality and debauchery - as a good example to the rest of the Church - particularly the Western Church - where Adventism is declining.  Many Conservatives such as William Johnnson in my opinion, seem to have quite a tolerance for moral compromise as long as this compromise involves "conservatism" which on some level - this conservatism has always approved of sexual immorality - exploitation of others, slavery, bigotry, etc.

But in the Bible - God - did not want his people mixing with other cultures where sexual debauchery was a way of life - yet and still - this is what Adventism to a great extent has become.  Suddenly - listenining to Kirk Franklin is more of a crime than sexual immorality, bearing false witness, or exploitation.  In fact, promoting this moral compromise seems to be essential for employees within Adventist Conferences who want to get promoted.  Much of Adventism is built on a great lie.

[Jise]

Illicitness and illicit behavior have become the currency of some societies that form the belt where in there is a high preponderance of HIV/AIDS fueled by breaking God's 10 commandments.

Is it fair or right when a Campus Director in the SDA Church who supports the concept of illicitness and immorality -advocates for Church members and others to uncritically give AID to countries wherein much of the citizenry including SDA church members support this concept of immorality and illiticit behavior that fuels such epidemics as HIV/AIDS?  Is such mission AID only fueling a lack of accountability?

[Bob Pickle]

Many Conservatives such as William Johnnson in my opinion, seem to have quite a tolerance for moral compromise as long as this compromise involves "conservatism" which on some level - this conservatism has always approved of sexual immorality - exploitation of others, slavery, bigotry, etc.

I believe your statement to be false. Produce one single statement from Bill Johnnson in which he states that he approves of sexual immorality, slavery, or bigotry. Either back up your statements or don't make them, out of Christian courtesy.

[christined]

Many Conservatives such as William Johnnson in my opinion, seem to have quite a tolerance for moral compromise as long as this compromise involves "conservatism" which on some level - this conservatism has always approved of sexual immorality - exploitation of others, slavery, bigotry, etc.

I believe your statement to be false. Produce one single statement from Bill Johnnson in which he states that he approves of sexual immorality, slavery, or bigotry. Either back up your statements or don't make them, out of Christian courtesy.

    My thoughts exactly!