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This statement is true

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This statement is false

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This statement is somewhat true

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This statement is true and I know of specific examples of conservatives being guilty of this in the SDA Church

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Total Members Voted: 2

[christian]

I use to have this crushing feeling that compelled me to tell, no battle others, on the merits of not wearing jewelry or listening to worldly music etc... But now I say to you do what you want, only God will be the judge. Either Ellen White is right or she is wrong. The problem I have is the confusion that is brought about by people who profess one thing and then do another. Or, they find it necessary to change the fundamental doctrines of the church because they have a taste for some luxury that they have labeled not all that bad. The fact of the matter is that the Adventist Church was founded on the principles of modesty of dress, diet, and the belief in the Spirit of Prophecy as revealed through Ellen. G. White. What happens is that they from the inside try to conform the church to the image that is exceptable to them in in so doing Aline the church with a more worldly exceptable stand. The problem is that the church like the ark is suppose to be built with only one type of wood to stand the coming flood.

The admonishment given on dress, music and the like were given to prepare the individual for the coming storm that is in the very near future. And for the minor storms that we are facing now. The admonishment on diet, worldly music, jewelry etc.. were never given as an option based on personal likes or dislikes they were given to buffet us from the rain and apostasy that is to come. So here is my warning to whoever might listen. God spoke through Ellen G. White on the issues of modesty, jewelry, music etc... do not think that if you disregard her writings you will be able to withstand the coming storm because like the flood that swept the antediluvian away, you will like wise meet the same fate. Rebellion takes many forms, and sometimes it is not even recognized by the ones rebelling until it is to late. Better that you went and started your own religion than to try and make the truth a lie by action or words of mouth. Either Ellen G. White is a liar or you are in that you are fooling yourself.

Now that's what I'm talkin' 'bout, Murcielago!

Tinka, I was putting that out there for folks who don't me.  We have already had this discussionand gree to disagree.   

[christian]

I just don't want anyone to misunderstand, I have speculated that everyone knows the Adventist major cornerstone is Jesus and the bible is the bases for all of the revelations concerning the pillars of the church.

I use to have this crushing feeling that compelled me to tell, no battle others, on the merits of not wearing jewelry or listening to worldly music etc... But now I say to you do what you want, only God will be the judge. Either Ellen White is right or she is wrong. The problem I have is the confusion that is brought about by people who profess one thing and then do another. Or, they find it necessary to change the fundamental doctrines of the church because they have a taste for some luxury that they have labeled not all that bad. The fact of the matter is that the Adventist Church was founded on the principles of modesty of dress, diet, and the belief in the Spirit of Prophecy as revealed through Ellen. G. White. What happens is that they from the inside try to conform the church to the image that is exceptable to them in in so doing Aline the church with a more worldly exceptable stand. The problem is that the church like the ark is suppose to be built with only one type of wood to stand the coming flood.

The admonishment given on dress, music and the like were given to prepare the individual for the coming storm that is in the very near future. And for the minor storms that we are facing now. The admonishment on diet, worldly music, jewelry etc.. were never given as an option based on personal likes or dislikes they were given to buffet us from the rain and apostasy that is to come. So here is my warning to whoever might listen. God spoke through Ellen G. White on the issues of modesty, jewelry, music etc... do not think that if you disregard her writings you will be able to withstand the coming storm because like the flood that swept the antediluvian away, you will like wise meet the same fate. Rebellion takes many forms, and sometimes it is not even recognized by the ones rebelling until it is to late. Better that you went and started your own religion than to try and make the truth a lie by action or words of mouth. Either Ellen G. White is a liar or you are in that you are fooling yourself.

Now that's what I'm talkin' 'bout, Murcielago!

Tinka, I was putting that out there for folks who don't me.  We have already had this discussionand gree to disagree.   

[tinka]

My reasoning too is that it would totally undue me to ever put a peice of jewelry on to deck my body in "vanity" from whom it was created in his likeness (from His love)and for Him while he wore a crown of thorns dripping in blood and rings on my fingers while his hands with nails dripping to cover my behind.... No way. Yes, my views are conservative to the knowledge of this.

Jesus is even too HOly for us to even mention what his supposidly being liberal or conservative coming from a human standpoint. These are men's words meaning of different characteristics no matter what history we want to compare too. It makes no difference nor does the color of skin. I can only look in awe at his earth and people, his creations and be at the same time angry at the devils tricks and feel dismay at the people that fall to it including my shortcomings too. I only know the sadness it brings and know that sadness is also an emotion so intense for the Creator.  He has tears I know because we do. We are like HIm only because He wanted to be loved back in the same realm of beings as He.

[Jise]

I agree with what I believe Mr. Ted Wilson is saying from his inaugural - that some of the outside churches have a different approach to christianity than some of the conservative SDAs - but I differ in the reasons.  Too often "conservative" SDAs have equated support for George Bush or conservative political candidates and "issues" as being the same thing as morality and christian ethics - when this is not so - but in fact moral compromise.  Look at many of the conservative SDAs - they are no more honest, purer, or more beholden to the 10 commandments than the next person.

When I think of a Christian - I think of someone who is beholden to a certain level of conduct - the 10 commandments and other things specified in the bible.  But what I found in the Adventist Church is that listenining to "gospel" music has been more a crime, rather htan whether or not one bears false witness or not, fornicates or does not, exploits others etc.  Dishonesty and deception also play a crucial role in painting progressives and progressivism in a dishonest light as necessarily more immoral than the conservative movement.  

When SDA Pastors are involved in Genocides, I think it is a fallacy to perpetuate the notion that the threat to Adventism is not within the church from what has come to be an Adventist ethos and way of life, but is only primarily from the outside from persons who support progressive issues such as morality concerning issues such  ethnic groups, etc.  I find it interesting how some conservative "adventists" who call themselves leaders are so determined to coursen the religious discourse with political terminology and insist on rubbisshing progressivism although progressivism has been conserned with many good ideals, while estolling conservativism although conservatism has been affiliated with promoting injustice and disparities in the way persons from different ethnic groups have been treated.

[Jise]

Adventist Pastor Ntihanabayo was sentenced for life imprisonment for his role in the Rwandan genocide in 2010.  I wonder did he not listen to emotional music, did he keep the sabbath, was he against women's ordination and against the other standard issues such as homosexuality and teaching of evolution?  Are there any other issues than these - the article entitled "Rwandan Adventist pastor gets life for genocide"  at the link below says that several Adventist and Catholic Clerics have been tried for their implication in the Rwandan genocide.  
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ieIfP_R8A-6wk-kh0HS-fFnw7gfQ

In many non-SDA Churches, you may rub shoulders with someone who listens to emotional music that is not to Mr. Ted Wilson's liking.  In the adventist Church, unfortunately, there is a chance that you could rub shoulders with a Cleric implicated in the Rwandan Genocide or someone with this ethos - and that this may be a "jarring" experience to yes -"christians" coming into the Adventist faith from other denominations.

[Jise]

I've read from the link below that Ellen White stated that "coloreds" should not seek equality with whites.  Ted Wilson is reported to have stated that adventists should believe every word of Ellen White.  Did Ms. White make this statement and if so, is Mr. Wilson asking others  to believe these words?  In my opinion, Mr. Wilson seems to act as if he believes these words, which is in part explained by his attack on "emotional worship." This also explains the actions of other ministry "leaders" hired by the Church.

http://www.oakwood.edu/goldmine/hdoc/blacksda/champ/

[Johann]

I once stopped my mother when she in her prayer asked God to make her good.

- You don't need to ask God for that, I said, because you are good!

I knew she was a saint because

1. she was always neatly dressed with no ornaments, no jewelry.
2. she read the Spirit of Phropecy
3. she was a vegetarian
4. she understood Justification by Faith
5. she never cared for worldly music

I wondered how some of the good ladies in Church managed to be so good and kind and Christian since they wore jewelry, but someone suggested the devil made them good to make people think it was all right to wear some jewelry.

Was anything wrong that kind of thinking?

[Murcielago]

Branson continues by placing that comment in the context of the time and many other statements by the same author. In that context her statement might make more sense, but that also establishes the premise that what she said was not always universally applicable outside of certain context, some of which may not exist in other times and places. It also implies that certain matters that cultures of one time or place hold as universal truth, may not apply to cultures of another time or place. (This would be based on the assumed premise that one adheres to Mrs. White as a prophet.)

On the topic of music, it has been my experience that in taking issue with emotion in worship and music people almost invariably abandon the Bible in favour of other sources to establish the bona fides of their point. Could it be because the Bible clearly and unequivocally supports emotional worship and music?

[Murcielago]

Jesus himself answers the question of what makes a person good in Matthew 25.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

   37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

   40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

I once stopped my mother when she in her prayer asked God to make her good.

- You don't need to ask God for that, I said, because you are good!

I knew she was a saint because

1. she was always neatly dressed with no ornaments, no jewelry.
2. she read the Spirit of Phropecy
3. she was a vegetarian
4. she understood Justification by Faith
5. she never cared for worldly music

I wondered how some of the good ladies in Church managed to be so good and kind and Christian since they wore jewelry, but someone suggested the devil made them good to make people think it was all right to wear some jewelry.

Was anything wrong that kind of thinking?

[christian]

No one has every said that wearing jewelry makes you bad it makes you disobedient. The problem is that people want things the way they want them. The problem is many people will be lost because they chose to be disobediant. When Eve took a look at the fruit she new it could make her wise, but God said don't do it. Even the men who wrote the bible were just that MEN or human beings the same as Ellen G. White yet we admonish people to follow the God of the bible or they will be lost. Now I know pleanty of people who are sweet and kind but have rejected the Sabbath knowing full well what God has said. Either Ellen G. White is the truth or she is a liar but she cannot be both. As I have said many times if you don't agree with what the principles of and organization is founded upon, build your own. Why is it necessary for you to try and change something you don't believe in? 

I once stopped my mother when she in her prayer asked God to make her good.

- You don't need to ask God for that, I said, because you are good!

I knew she was a saint because

1. she was always neatly dressed with no ornaments, no jewelry.
2. she read the Spirit of Phropecy
3. she was a vegetarian
4. she understood Justification by Faith
5. she never cared for worldly music

I wondered how some of the good ladies in Church managed to be so good and kind and Christian since they wore jewelry, but someone suggested the devil made them good to make people think it was all right to wear some jewelry.

Was anything wrong that kind of thinking?

[princessdi]

I am(because I fall into this category) disobedient to whom?  Within my own personal relationship with God(which is the only one that counts), I don't believe that I am disobedient to Him. 

No one has every said that wearing jewelry makes you bad it makes you disobedient. The problem is that people want things the way they want them. The problem is many people will be lost because they chose to be disobediant. When Eve took a look at the fruit she new it could make her wise, but God said don't do it. Even the men who wrote the bible were just that MEN or human beings the same as Ellen G. White yet we admonish people to follow the God of the bible or they will be lost. Now I know pleanty of people who are sweet and kind but have rejected the Sabbath knowing full well what God has said. Either Ellen G. White is the truth or she is a liar but she cannot be both. As I have said many times if you don't agree with what the principles of and organization is founded upon, build your own. Why is it necessary for you to try and change something you don't believe in? 

I once stopped my mother when she in her prayer asked God to make her good.

- You don't need to ask God for that, I said, because you are good!

I knew she was a saint because

1. she was always neatly dressed with no ornaments, no jewelry.
2. she read the Spirit of Phropecy
3. she was a vegetarian
4. she understood Justification by Faith
5. she never cared for worldly music

I wondered how some of the good ladies in Church managed to be so good and kind and Christian since they wore jewelry, but someone suggested the devil made them good to make people think it was all right to wear some jewelry.

Was anything wrong that kind of thinking?

[Murcielago]

Very true. If the Bible doesn't forbid jewelry, emotional worship and music, and so forth, find something else that does.

No one has every said that wearing jewelry makes you bad it makes you disobedient. The problem is that people want things the way they want them. The problem is many people will be lost because they chose to be disobediant. When Eve took a look at the fruit she new it could make her wise, but God said don't do it. Even the men who wrote the bible were just that MEN or human beings the same as Ellen G. White yet we admonish people to follow the God of the bible or they will be lost. Now I know pleanty of people who are sweet and kind but have rejected the Sabbath knowing full well what God has said. Either Ellen G. White is the truth or she is a liar but she cannot be both. As I have said many times if you don't agree with what the principles of and organization is founded upon, build your own. Why is it necessary for you to try and change something you don't believe in? 

[princessdi]

Well, I hurriedly responded to one part of this post, and now that I have mroe time, I will respond to the bolded portion.

Christian, SDAs(and every other christian denom) go to great lengths to to prove their doctrines, even their very existence is biblical. 

SDAs, have claimed that some of their doctrines were biblical, when in fact, they were just basic corporate policies.  The "policy" of not wearing jewelry, in particular weddign bands was never, ever, enforced by the church in countries where the wearing of wedding bands was law, and not just tradition.  This means, it could not have been biblical........ever.  It if was, like every other doctrine, such as the Sabbath, IJ, etc. it would have been unshakeable , but instead it was clearly flexible.  Enforcement would only really work well here in the US, where they could effectively apply salvific value to them.  The problem came in whent hey really started sending missionaries to these countries and the missionaries had to wear themt o comply, and then they refused to remove them once back in the US.......why?  Because they then knew it was not biblical.  GC had no answer to their challenge.  EGW didn't even want the church to make doctrine from her words alone.  Her words/writings are not extensions of the Bible, only point to what is already there.  If it was not expressly mentioned in the Bible, then she more that likely had a very practical reason for a warning for the people of her time.  Those conditions may not still exist today. 

Next, if indeed this SDA church, is God's established Remnant church, then youc an't tell those of his children you feel are not adhereing to the rules that they should be be there.  God can place anybody, anywhere He wants while they work out their relationship with  Him.  We don't get to say who is ready to be a part of "us".  Once again, I ask why we are unwilling to allow God to work with others inHis time, just as he does with us?

No one has every said that wearing jewelry makes you bad it makes you disobedient. The problem is that people want things the way they want them. The problem is many people will be lost because they chose to be disobediant. When Eve took a look at the fruit she new it could make her wise, but God said don't do it. Even the men who wrote the bible were just that MEN or human beings the same as Ellen G. White yet we admonish people to follow the God of the bible or they will be lost. Now I know pleanty of people who are sweet and kind but have rejected the Sabbath knowing full well what God has said. Either Ellen G. White is the truth or she is a liar but she cannot be both. As I have said many times if you don't agree with what the principles of and organization is founded upon, build your own. Why is it necessary for you to try and change something you don't believe in? 

I once stopped my mother when she in her prayer asked God to make her good.

- You don't need to ask God for that, I said, because you are good!

I knew she was a saint because

1. she was always neatly dressed with no ornaments, no jewelry.
2. she read the Spirit of Phropecy
3. she was a vegetarian
4. she understood Justification by Faith
5. she never cared for worldly music

I wondered how some of the good ladies in Church managed to be so good and kind and Christian since they wore jewelry, but someone suggested the devil made them good to make people think it was all right to wear some jewelry.

Was anything wrong that kind of thinking?

[Johann]

I did not consider my father as great a saint as my mother because he did not have as much time to read the Testimonies. But I was certain he'd make his way to heaven through the great tribulation because he managed to detect the faults of some of the Church leaders. Years later, as I sat by his deathbed I witnessed how he confessed and asked some of those "imperfect" church leaders forgiveness for his former attitude.

When was he at his best in the sight of God?

[princessdi]

You know, Johann, I started to say when he was asking forgiveness from those he had judged, but you know, if we believe that God's sees us through the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ, the your father looked the same to God all the time.  He doesn't have to be convinced to see us in a good light, that was already accomplished.........while we were yet in our sins.

I did not consider my father as great a saint as my mother because he did not have as much time to read the Testimonies. But I was certain he'd make his way to heaven through the great tribulation because he managed to detect the faults of some of the Church leaders. Years later, as I sat by his deathbed I witnessed how he confessed and asked some of those "imperfect" church leaders forgiveness for his former attitude.

When was he at his best in the sight of God?