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This statement is true and I know of specific examples of conservatives being guilty of this in the SDA Church

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Total Members Voted: 2

[princessdi]

See you aint' right Christian!  LOL!!!

Ok, but wasn't your statement saying the EGW was NOT black?  You were saying if Billclinton and EGW wre black then so was Ted Wilson.  We all know he would die before even thinking he might be one eighth of a drop black.  LOL!!!  That is what I got the five times I read it over after reading Tinka's post.  However.....there is a question, now.......personally as a hair stylist for 25, and jes a black woman who knows, those edges and that tight french braid always gave me pause........she could quite pulled them edges all the way straight.  Plus to looked toomuch like too many light, skinned black women I knew......but then again....it didn't realy matter to me. 

TInka, even you got black in you because Adam was black and Eve was white, so how is that sarcasm? That's why the saying started if you go black you can't go back. Obviously, down the line we are all kin to each other from Noah. So actually you are a distant relative to me and if your have .1% black blood you are black, so there you have the proof you need. Besides, I read some of your writing and I can see the sista coming out of you.









Okay, folks I am just kidding lighten up, laughter is a medicine.

Bring up your proof since you are spouting off your sarcasm of it. So what makes the difference if she was --that you seem to be dallying in. The person (his name slips my mind but seem to recall "Foy") before EGW with the same dream was mulatto and refused the task and this is her statement. So why was this not mentioned of her? Why would she hide it.  Need some documentation on this and not internet stuff from the "food for the worms."  I read it all and nowhere did that come across that I can recall. 

This is exactly what I mean, who would bring this up if it didn't make a difference to the beholder of this issue. It only makes a difference to a person who wants a difference because of their inner frustrations. I don't care if she was "butterscotch."  The Lord chose her and that proves my point. This recall, recall, recall, of sins of racism is never going to enter the gates.  Reality of history and now yes, but only to those who overcome will be in future. When things hit hard lets see if that still is all a racist can think of on the color line. Let me tell you there is going to be a lot more to worry about then the color code of past "devil operations". How about buying and selling, living, dying and standing alone and some will still be thinking about color of skin?  Not me! 

[christian]

Lets be real now okay? Ellen White in the end will be part Japanese if it gets tithe money, her eyes do look kinda slanted. Some people really do need certain things in order to identify with and except them. I don't think the lady was black and it really does not matter so long as what she was saying is the truth.

See you aint' right Christian!  LOL!!!

Ok, but wasn't your statement saying the EGW was NOT black?  You were saying if Billclinton and EGW wre black then so was Ted Wilson.  We all know he would die before even thinking he might be one eighth of a drop black.  LOL!!!  That is what I got the five times I read it over after reading Tinka's post.  However.....there is a question, now.......personally as a hair stylist for 25, and jes a black woman who knows, those edges and that tight french braid always gave me pause........she could quite pulled them edges all the way straight.  Plus to looked toomuch like too many light, skinned black women I knew......but then again....it didn't realy matter to me. 

TInka, even you got black in you because Adam was black and Eve was white, so how is that sarcasm? That's why the saying started if you go black you can't go back. Obviously, down the line we are all kin to each other from Noah. So actually you are a distant relative to me and if your have .1% black blood you are black, so there you have the proof you need. Besides, I read some of your writing and I can see the sista coming out of you.









Okay, folks I am just kidding lighten up, laughter is a medicine.

Bring up your proof since you are spouting off your sarcasm of it. So what makes the difference if she was --that you seem to be dallying in. The person (his name slips my mind but seem to recall "Foy") before EGW with the same dream was mulatto and refused the task and this is her statement. So why was this not mentioned of her? Why would she hide it.  Need some documentation on this and not internet stuff from the "food for the worms."  I read it all and nowhere did that come across that I can recall. 

This is exactly what I mean, who would bring this up if it didn't make a difference to the beholder of this issue. It only makes a difference to a person who wants a difference because of their inner frustrations. I don't care if she was "butterscotch."  The Lord chose her and that proves my point. This recall, recall, recall, of sins of racism is never going to enter the gates.  Reality of history and now yes, but only to those who overcome will be in future. When things hit hard lets see if that still is all a racist can think of on the color line. Let me tell you there is going to be a lot more to worry about then the color code of past "devil operations". How about buying and selling, living, dying and standing alone and some will still be thinking about color of skin?  Not me! 

[tinka]

Hmmmm

[Johann]

Hmmmm

 

[tinka]

(laugh)   just letting him say the last word but in great doubt of this scenario. I am not really a joker on things but love actual funny things that happen in reality.

I've read quite a bit and know how much has come into being and when and why Not as much in the know of history as much as some of you that live in all parts of the world where it comes much easier. If I am in the dark I usually go after the light of things and proof. I always have to know what possible truth is. I do not like to be in doubt that reflects how I should live and believe.

...and back to the music saga from above statements from Christian. I usually decide (for me) on the worship music by the use of story or words used within music. If it is all about worshiping God and praising Him in beautiful melody I think that is for real. But the songs that conclude all about you, I and testifying about your self and your story with clashing music that it might be in most times and places seem to pass but worship to God I feel should be entirely to Him on His day to Thank and praise Him. Those I, me, and you songs bring on the repetition, same notes over and over  clashing and totally uninteresting and take away any connection to Holy Spirit but the high spirit of ones self. Take note-more often of the words and then decide what is praising and what is not. Some songs are not so bad in testifying but true worship songs are chosen by melody, words and not performances for public view of every individual likes  of jazz, rock, balleds, or drumming beats of rock does not really give praise to God for his Love for us and all that he gives.  Also the reason I brought this up again is I do not believe in applause in the church for performances. I believe it is applauding ourselves for giving worship in our own manner to God. I may give some samples that EGW brought into mind why we should not do the hand clapping in church for different reasons. So why do we do it? I know I know, it is just another progressive !

[Jise]

I'm kind of busy - to respond to all the comments - but my 2 cents for the day.

Interesting thing is - that in the SDA Church - you can have people who've fomented ethnic cleansings, but are conservative - and have yet to be "called out" or criticized by the church leadership (I have not read of Ted Wilson calling these people out) - to my knowledge - you have other "conservatives" who've done real crude things such as yielded ethnic slurs against others, exploited others, told lies against others. And yet to hear the church leadership tell it -
it's the people singing in Gospel Choirs with "emotional Worship" who are the evil ones, not the people in the SDA Church who've fomented ethnic cleansing yet have been protected by the SDA Church and been permitted to work in ADRA relief.  Merely listening to "classical music" or being "phony" is supposed to be "christian" even if one is a sociopath.  It's as if this is to say that as long as you don a "business suit", that the book is defined by the "cover". Funny thing is, many of us have been treated far more christianly when singing in non-SDA Gospel choirs than when among some Adventists who are used to and flourish among a sociopathic atmosphere.  I feel as if people who blankently "condemn" emotional worship, yet support "cconservatives" who've broken the 10 commandments - are perpeutating apostasy and are agents of compromise, and are looking for non-existent reasons to call into question the validity of other "valid" forms of christian experience that don't have the "SDA" label - which is an unbiblically supported, "man-made" label.
The Adventist Church has some really "low" characters in it - people who've fomented ethnic cleansings, have really crude views of women and races - and yet these individuals are celebrated and tolerated by the Church leadership, because these behaviors are akin to the sociopathic views of North American conservatism on the subject of "minorities", social justice, etc.

[Murcielago]

Psalms was the original set of songs. Go through it sometime and you will find that it is David testifying about himself. It is filled with "I", "me", "mine" and so forth. It also encourages praise and singing to include dance and instruments of percussion. David expressed lots of emotion in his songs, and encourages people to do the same. I have not seen anything in the Bible teaching that we should not worship and praise as David did, but then I might have missed it somewhere.
 

(laugh)  :ROFL:just letting him say the last word but in great doubt of this scenario. I am not really a joker on things but love actual funny things that happen in reality.

I've read quite a bit and know how much has come into being and when and why Not as much in the know of history as much as some of you that live in all parts of the world where it comes much easier. If I am in the dark I usually go after the light of things and proof. I always have to know what possible truth is. I do not like to be in doubt that reflects how I should live and believe.

...and back to the music saga from above statements from Christian. I usually decide (for me) on the worship music by the use of story or words used within music. If it is all about worshiping God and praising Him in beautiful melody I think that is for real. But the songs that conclude all about you, I and testifying about your self and your story with clashing music that it might be in most times and places seem to pass but worship to God I feel should be entirely to Him on His day to Thank and praise Him. Those I, me, and you songs bring on the repetition, same notes over and over  clashing and totally uninteresting and take away any connection to Holy Spirit but the high spirit of ones self. Take note-more often of the words and then decide what is praising and what is not. Some songs are not so bad in testifying but true worship songs are chosen by melody, words and not performances for public view of every individual likes  of jazz, rock, balleds, or drumming beats of rock does not really give praise to God for his Love for us and all that he gives.  Also the reason I brought this up again is I do not believe in applause in the church for performances. I believe it is applauding ourselves for giving worship in our own manner to God. I may give some samples that EGW brought into mind why we should not do the hand clapping in church for different reasons. So why do we do it? I know I know, it is just another progressive !

[Johann]

[Jise]

One more thing I'd like to add, What The church leadership seems to applaud is assimilation -   and assimilation is not necessarily a good thing.  This is what the comment about "emotional worship" from Wilson speaks to - and this is why we see "sociopaths" in the SDA Church who think being "christian" and "religious" is supporting moral compromise and a lack of social justice/racial justice and sounding little different from david duke.

[Jise]

Want to ask a rhetorical question.  The Bible says that the "evil" will Borrow and not repay -while the blessed will lend. I want to ask you all your opinion rhetorically on the debt crisis in America and whether you think this is indicative of the compromise being introduced into the SDA church - is this debt crisis that is being experienced generally, and that some are experiencing individually a ramification of this biblical admonition? Now mind you, there have been many innocent "victims" in the US - who were victims of unethical lending practices and got bad mortgages - but there are others who have been greedy, and/or evil etc. - and are also underwater.

What I 've noticed - is that some of the "conservative" moral compromisers I'm talking about - some of whom consider themselves "leaders" - and sooo.... self righteous vis a vis - other groups,and some who've wished ill will on other groups - have huge debt burdens according to public land records - if looking at how much their housing value has dropped in just one year.  I can think of one particularly nasty SDA "conservative" "leader" who's apparently almost $100,000 in the hole from the mortgage he/she got according to land records. Value dropped alomst $100,000 beginning in 2009 alone. 2009 was an important year for this leader when he started to adopt certain rhetoric.  does this come with being "evil" and advocating for "moral compromise" in to their church?
I noticed this happened when this leader started making insinuations about ethnic groups, etc.
I can think of another "conservative" member of the SDA Church who is also talks about other ethnic groups allegedly in certain terms and allegedly being incapable of success and living in nice neighbhorhoods - yet a check of land records indicates taht this individual is around $40,000 underwater in their house.  Meanwhile, some of the persons this  individual was talking about, have substantial equity in their homes and a .   Perhaps, the next 100 years of America will not be like the first 300 years in terms of what it takes to live the American dream

[Sheba]

Wrong thread as Jise posted on other and deleted. Who might you be talking about in your post?

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Wanted to add a general comment.  I will have to address these many comments later on today or tommorow when I have time but just wanted to say - much of American culture such as the "lynching culture" is sociopathic.  In my opinion, the conservative wing of the SDA Church subscribes to this culture of oppression and compromised morality -on some level - and this is what has attracted large numbers of converts to the Adventist Church .  For me, Ted Wilson - the new President of the SDA Church represents moral compromise in that he tolerates and perpetuates this culture.  People who sing in Gospel choirs are condemned - yet conservative sociopaths who perpetuate a culture of sociopathy in violation of the biblical 10 commandments are celebrated and applauded.

I'm led to believe that Ted Wilson celebrates moral compromise and instead wants to attack "symbols" of culture - and that he's perpetuating ethnic discrimination as religion.

Your racial tirade demonstrates a complete ignorance of history and REALITY!!!

 To suggest that "large numbers of converts" are drawn to the SDA church to expedite racism is an outrage that should not be tolerated here or anywhere else. These comments demonstrate that YOU are a race bateing blogger of dubious social or debate value and are clearly not a Seventh-day Adventist or a FREIND of the Seventh-day Adventist church.

It is not only a concept born in psychosis but the evidence is simply not there as we have many Regional Conferences that substantially outnumber "racist conferences".

As to the decision to separate into an Apartheid Church, it was actually an accomodation to allow minorities to develop leadership and their own witness programs as well as preservation of their unique worship style.

As to the decision to sustain an Apartheid Church, I have not seen any movement by the victims of Apartheid to demand an end to Apartheid. I have seen them struggle to exert some oversight over traditional white institutions and I have also witnessed the collapse of support for those institutions by white constituencies as an unacceptable reaction, then blame it on minority constituencies.

But then, I have watched white constituencies sit back and watch administrators undermine, plunder and destroy dozens of institutions in my half century plus as a watch-dog, some would say "bull-dog".

It is LAODICEA and the Lord makes it patently clear where we end up and it ain't pretty...the greatest insult in any culture is to be spit out, but that is our fate...think long and hard the implication of this means to bring about true revival and reformation and ask where we will be when the spewn face their Lord and Saviour.

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

 

[princessdi]

Ok, so at lunchtime today I typed a beautiful response to your post.  LOL!!!  Let me see iffn' I can recreate it.

So Christian, you talked about Jesus ministry on earth, but we all know that His ministray was very specific, and had nothing to do with music as praise and worship because He would have been promoting Himself, that wasn't the point.  The point for Him to live life sinless, with no more power than is available to us.  That He did, without using His divinity. 

Now, you might not see music as part of praise and worship, but God does, as we are told that it permeates heaven.  The reason I say that satan works so hard in this area to silence praise and worship, because hehimself was created with unequalled gifts and talents for music, and he witholds his praise and worship from God, and is steadily trying to convince man to withhold his, in all areas, but especially this one.  Music IS important to God, He shows a clear preference for it as a significant part of one's praise and worship to Him.  No earthly sanctuary has even attempted to touch that which is in heaven.  Would you say He makes too much of music?

Now let's go to the OT.  First we see how in battle, god instructed the COI many times to place the musicians singers at the front line.  How powerful is that?  Then, as already mentioned, we have David who wrote many, many Psalms and danced before the Lord upon the Triumphant return of the Ark.  God called him a man after His own heart.  Because David led a sinless life?  Was such a good warrior?  How about a good father?....NOT!

You know the bible talks about God inhabiting the praises of His people, and again in the Ot many battels were won when the COI lifted their voices in Praise and worship to God. the enemy defintiel doesn't want us to know we have athat kind of access to God.

Please post to the thread please, I need a good discussion (smile). As I have said before music is made way to much of. You will notice that Jesus life was one primarily of service action with very little mention of music. Oh, and I do not equate musice with worship, but rather a clean hand and pure heart is what I equate to worship. Let me make myself very very clear (I hope) I love music as much as the next person does actually I played for church and am a musician, I play the keyboard, I have a kurzweil and a Technic and a casio and a rowland, actually I have four separate keyboards in my house. Actually I feel a little guilty because I have more instruments than I can possibly ever play. Okay, I confess I am guilty of lusing after many instruments. Now having said all of that I realize we are way, and I mean way over indulgent when it comes to music in church, that is why people get sooooo passionate when it comes to their music. ----- and yes I am rambling and very tired after 16 hours of work, so try and cypher this one ot Princess (lol).

Amen!!  Ain't no rocks going to cry out in my place either!  Ooops!!  Good answer, good answer, Mrst.(In my most quiet reverent voice)    I just might have to send you my phone number to stop me from posting on this one.............good going.....there is just so much more we need to understand.......but I am going to shut my mouth....................oK but just one thing.......LOL..........

The enemy absolutely LOVES it when we restrict sincere praise and worship to God.  We join him in keeping the praise and worship from God Lucifer himself was uniquely created to give.  It is a way to place us in league with him against God.  It is not the type or genre, it is the sincerity of the heart.  Example:,  I have heard not one of you who maintain the conservative music stance, complain about the music on 3ABN, or more to the point any song that Danny sings, but you all call him all but spawn of satan, right?  Didn't stop him from kicking his wife to the curb and marrying Gidget, and every other thing you all have accused him of.....all along singing this perfectly "acceptable" music.  As far as you all are concerned he might as well be singing "urban" gospel.

Ok, I am going to leave it right there.......I promise....Mrst, please remind me not to post to this particular subject, PLEASE......Gurl, I need your help!  LOL!!! 

I have to disagree somewhat about the music in the church. It should not be the ONLY thing in the church, but if the Holy Spirit is leading the service, then no one should stop it. I also agree that there is a time and place for quiet and calm worship. I also believe that we do need services of prayer.
If the Lord leads me to raise me to raise my hands in praise, then I will. I will not quiet the Holy Spirit.

[christian]

Yes you are so correct (not that you needed my validation) but notice the songs were always sung after or before some great event. Now take a minute and contrast it with the times that Israel apostatized and and displeased God. For me it is not entirely about the music but a mixture of condition and music. Sometimes a good thing done in the wrong situation is worse than a bad thing done in a bad situation. Recently, my mother died and let me tell you I was not to pleased for a number of obvious reasons, but if someone had started playing some stepping music I would have fought.

I think you and I would agree that the church is in a sad state, wordily, unloving, uncompassionate etc... The point I am trying to say is that God is not pleased with the music if the music makers heart is far from Him. There is no amount of music or music sang from the most capable lips that will bring praise to God if the heart is unconverted. For many music has become their God and seems to trump the importance of a sanctified and clean heart.

Now you know Princess that by in large (the vast majority) in the church would not help you if you were down and out. Get sick for any length of time and you will see how important or how much help you will get. I am sure that the best music here is screeching in the ears of God without a converted heart. So really the music is not (by in large) for God but for us humans and our expression whether real or fake.

Ok, so at lunchtime today I typed a beautiful response to your post.  LOL!!!  Let me see iffn' I can recreate it.

So Christian, you talked about Jesus ministry on earth, but we all know that His ministray was very specific, and had nothing to do with music as praise and worship because He would have been promoting Himself, that wasn't the point.  The point for Him to live life sinless, with no more power than is available to us.  That He did, without using His divinity. 

Now, you might not see music as part of praise and worship, but God does, as we are told that it permeates heaven.  The reason I say that satan works so hard in this area to silence praise and worship, because hehimself was created with unequalled gifts and talents for music, and he witholds his praise and worship from God, and is steadily trying to convince man to withhold his, in all areas, but especially this one.  Music IS important to God, He shows a clear preference for it as a significant part of one's praise and worship to Him.  No earthly sanctuary has even attempted to touch that which is in heaven.  Would you say He makes too much of music?

Now let's go to the OT.  First we see how in battle, god instructed the COI many times to place the musicians singers at the front line.  How powerful is that?  Then, as already mentioned, we have David who wrote many, many Psalms and danced before the Lord upon the Triumphant return of the Ark.  God called him a man after His own heart.  Because David led a sinless life?  Was such a good warrior?  How about a good father?....NOT!

You know the bible talks about God inhabiting the praises of His people, and again in the Ot many battels were won when the COI lifted their voices in Praise and worship to God. the enemy defintiel doesn't want us to know we have athat kind of access to God.

Please post to the thread please, I need a good discussion (smile). As I have said before music is made way to much of. You will notice that Jesus life was one primarily of service action with very little mention of music. Oh, and I do not equate musice with worship, but rather a clean hand and pure heart is what I equate to worship. Let me make myself very very clear (I hope) I love music as much as the next person does actually I played for church and am a musician, I play the keyboard, I have a kurzweil and a Technic and a casio and a rowland, actually I have four separate keyboards in my house. Actually I feel a little guilty because I have more instruments than I can possibly ever play. Okay, I confess I am guilty of lusing after many instruments. Now having said all of that I realize we are way, and I mean way over indulgent when it comes to music in church, that is why people get sooooo passionate when it comes to their music. ----- and yes I am rambling and very tired after 16 hours of work, so try and cypher this one ot Princess (lol).

Amen!!  Ain't no rocks going to cry out in my place either!  Ooops!!  Good answer, good answer, Mrst.(In my most quiet reverent voice)    I just might have to send you my phone number to stop me from posting on this one.............good going.....there is just so much more we need to understand.......but I am going to shut my mouth....................oK but just one thing.......LOL..........

The enemy absolutely LOVES it when we restrict sincere praise and worship to God.  We join him in keeping the praise and worship from God Lucifer himself was uniquely created to give.  It is a way to place us in league with him against God.  It is not the type or genre, it is the sincerity of the heart.  Example:,  I have heard not one of you who maintain the conservative music stance, complain about the music on 3ABN, or more to the point any song that Danny sings, but you all call him all but spawn of satan, right?  Didn't stop him from kicking his wife to the curb and marrying Gidget, and every other thing you all have accused him of.....all along singing this perfectly "acceptable" music.  As far as you all are concerned he might as well be singing "urban" gospel.

Ok, I am going to leave it right there.......I promise....Mrst, please remind me not to post to this particular subject, PLEASE......Gurl, I need your help!  LOL!!! 

I have to disagree somewhat about the music in the church. It should not be the ONLY thing in the church, but if the Holy Spirit is leading the service, then no one should stop it. I also agree that there is a time and place for quiet and calm worship. I also believe that we do need services of prayer.
If the Lord leads me to raise me to raise my hands in praise, then I will. I will not quiet the Holy Spirit.

[princessdi]

First of all, I want to ask the admins if these posts regarding music/worship should be moved, and I apologize for my part in hijacking the thread.

Ok so Christian " some great event".  You are right usually something on the line of deliverance or victory in battles, etc.  Correct.  However isn't that also what happens on an individual basis.  When are we not praising and worshipping God, if it is not on the edge or the heels of some great victory, deliverance, and/or event in our lives.  These days, should we not consider even waking up in the morning one of those great events, or even victories.  Not to mention even making it to the next Sabbath, month, year.  There is also something that is very foreign to SDAs, and that is people do praise and worship God because He has blessed them , delivered, them "in spite" of themselves, in spite of their sins, their unfaithfulness, their failings.  That is HUGE for some, because they realize very well how undeserving they are. 

Who said we had to be at a certain point of "perfection" or "righteousness" before we praise and worship God?  How perfect were the COI, once they crossed the Red Sea?  We know they had many, many more challenges after that.  how perfect was David?  He had some serious issues with women and just transferring that "great warrior king"/leader image to his family. Then who, on earth, makes that determination?  Because now we are attempting to judge the heart and/or intentions by the "outward appearance".  God has already said in the New and Old Testaments that man cannot do this, but that it is He that makes the determination, because He only can see the heart and know the intentions.

So, we must be careful that we don't get into the dangerous position of requriing more than God of a person, or persons other than ourselves.  Who dtermines the unconverted heart?