Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

This statement is true

1 (33.3%)

This statement is false

1 (33.3%)

This statement is somewhat true

0 (0%)

This statement is true and I know of specific examples of conservatives being guilty of this in the SDA Church

1 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 2

[mrst53]

tinka,
If the Lord convicted me, that wearing my wedding ring or my earings was a sin, I would take them off. Also, if He convicted me that wearing them was causing someone else from coming to Him, I would also take them off. So far, He has not done that. I do not dress plain, like the Amish or Mennonites because the Lord has not convicted me to do that, nor has He convicted me to live as a vegetarian as you do. WHEN AND IF He does I will change my diet. What the Lord tells you to do, is different than me. The scripture says to work out our own salvation before the Lord. Each of us is different. Each one of us have different gifts and God uses us in different ways. For you to wear jewely is wrong, because the Lord has told you it is wrong. I would not try to tell you different. My walk with Jesus is personal and I listen to Him. Sometimes He has to knock me up beside the head, but He gets His point accross.

[Jise]

Ted Wilson is reported to have stated that EGW's spirit of prophecy is as relevant today as is was yesterday.  Does he also mean that this is true regarding these statements she made: ""Opportunities are continually presenting themselves in the Southern States, and many wise, Christian colored men will be called to the work. But for several reasons white men must be chosen as leaders."
Ellen White, Testimonies, vol. 9, p. 202.

"The work of proclaiming the truth for this time is not to be hindered by an effort to adjust the position of the Negro race." Ellen White, Testimonies Vol. 9, page 214, paragraph

The Colored People should not urge that they be placed on an equality with White People." (Testimonies Vol. 9, page 214, Paragraph 3) "

I think he is - and this is the problem I have - this is why Ted Wilson and many of the "conservatives" in the SDA Church are not credible to me - especially when they try to scandalize liberalism.  Ted Wilson's theology seems to be a theology of bigotry and moral compromise - .
This theology is in fact even more dangerous than some other non-SDA theologies - and it is more dangerous than the gospel music listener to the fabric of society. This is why I find it highly hypocritical when conservatives in the SDA Church try and paint themselves as the standard bearers of the christian faith in comparison to "liberals".

[Jise]

Another question is - when EGW made these statements urging inequality between "coloreds" and whites - perhaps, this does reveal that within Adventism - there is an ethos of tribalism that is a way of life and culture unlike in some non-SDA denominations.

With these statements of EGW - about "coloreds" - how can there be a genuine "christian " community? Are coloreds safe within these communities -and/or will they be mistreated by "Adventists"?  EGW and others believing in her every word which I believe Ted Wilson urged in his speech this summer- seems to be saying that it is ok to break the 10 commandments and to treat 'coloreds" unchristianly, because "coloreds" should not seek equality with whites. 

But remember - bound up within inequality -is the fact that - "coloreds" as a result of discrimination have been the brunt of "false witness", recieving unfair wages, women and men have been killed, women have been raped. The bible says that these practices are wrong.

This is moral compromise.   the call for traditionalism - is not really a call for a closer adherence to christian doctrine but a fallback to a time period in history where  "coloreds"  being unequal to "whites" was the law of the land.

[princessdi]

....and the church said....AMEN!!!

tinka,
If the Lord convicted me, that wearing my wedding ring or my earings was a sin, I would take them off. Also, if He convicted me that wearing them was causing someone else from coming to Him, I would also take them off. So far, He has not done that. I do not dress plain, like the Amish or Mennonites because the Lord has not convicted me to do that, nor has He convicted me to live as a vegetarian as you do. WHEN AND IF He does I will change my diet. What the Lord tells you to do, is different than me. The scripture says to work out our own salvation before the Lord. Each of us is different. Each one of us have different gifts and God uses us in different ways. For you to wear jewely is wrong, because the Lord has told you it is wrong. I would not try to tell you different. My walk with Jesus is personal and I listen to Him. Sometimes He has to knock me up beside the head, but He gets His point accross.

[Murcielago]

And that AMEN is seconded!

....and the church said....AMEN!!!

tinka,
If the Lord convicted me, that wearing my wedding ring or my earings was a sin, I would take them off. Also, if He convicted me that wearing them was causing someone else from coming to Him, I would also take them off. So far, He has not done that. I do not dress plain, like the Amish or Mennonites because the Lord has not convicted me to do that, nor has He convicted me to live as a vegetarian as you do. WHEN AND IF He does I will change my diet. What the Lord tells you to do, is different than me. The scripture says to work out our own salvation before the Lord. Each of us is different. Each one of us have different gifts and God uses us in different ways. For you to wear jewely is wrong, because the Lord has told you it is wrong. I would not try to tell you different. My walk with Jesus is personal and I listen to Him. Sometimes He has to knock me up beside the head, but He gets His point accross.

[Jise]

I compare Adventism with other non-adventist faiths that Ted Wilson snubs his nose at in his speeches - and I've often found more integrity in the non-SDA denominations because of a lack of conservatism.  On the one hand, some of the SDA conservatives are quick to launch onto something as small as "gospel music" to insinuate that people coming from this certain cultural tradition who are also of a certain ethnic group are inherently immoral than even those who lie, cheat, and steal, but happen to be of another ethnic group. But I look at the non-SDA denomination that I've been familiar with and ask - would it be common place to have a number of pastors there implicated in genocides?  Would it be common for campus ministry leaders to support church members who've lied against others, exploited others, etc?  Would it be common for campus ministry leaders to support fornication among church members, dishonesty, exploitation while meanwhile campaigning against women's ordination?  Usually, when you think of a christian person - you think of a certain level of integrity and code of conduct - this is what I've experienced in other denominations.  But in the adventist church - there is a bid to convince others - that merely on ethnicity alone - that one's tradition and perspective as a christian is faulty - even more faulty than for example, those who don't adhere to the 10 commandments or have been implicated in genocides.  Some of the adventist leaders who seem to have this animousity towards particular ethnic groups, themselves are not as accomplished economically or professionally as christians that I encountered in these other denominations -perhaps this explains their "ill will".  In general, what I've noticed as a result of the conservatism in adventism - is that there are those who have a predisposition of seeking out others with an aim of having "ill will" for others - almost akin to "witchraft" - wishing others ill - or at - with this kind of attitude, how can you truly have a "christian" community rather than a "club".  I've never encountered this kind of attititude in other denominations. In adventism it is as if tribalism is a religion and t theology. 

[Jise]

Let me add - I can think of this one  ministry leader hired by the Adventist church who is really kind of ungentlemanly and also lacking integrity - and looking at him - professionally and economically he is not as accomplished as christians I think of in this other denomination - perhaps this explains his ill will.  he claims to have the correct theology in comparison to these other "christians" - yet he supports persons who are dishonest against others, have born false witness against others, he supports stealing even in violation of EGW's counsel, etc.  He claims to be correct in theology and in "holiness" and in worship and in musical observance - yet when one compares him with non-SDA christians encountered  in other faith traditions - he does not have basic integrity and morality.  These other christians would not justify bearing false witness against others, exploiting others, stealing,  being promiscous - whereas this Adventist campus leader hired by the church is doing these very things.   This is what I mean - while claiming to be even more moral and theologically pure than any other christian denomination and particularly the "liberals" - this c SDA leader and indeed many of the SDA conservatives - come across as the least christian of all.  Comparing this ministry leader - he's not really accomplished professionally or blessed economically as  those who he's sought to insinuate     are not as christian as him. I think that the Church is personally harmed by having people with his lack of integrity in it - and ministering to the young people.

[tinka]

tinka,
If the Lord convicted me, that wearing my wedding ring or my earings was a sin, I would take them off. Also, if He convicted me that wearing them was causing someone else from coming to Him, I would also take them off. So far, He has not done that. I do not dress plain, like the Amish or Mennonites because the Lord has not convicted me to do that, nor has He convicted me to live as a vegetarian as you do. WHEN AND IF He does I will change my diet. What the Lord tells you to do, is different than me. The scripture says to work out our own salvation before the Lord. Each of us is different. Each one of us have different gifts and God uses us in different ways. For you to wear jewely is wrong, because the Lord has told you it is wrong. I would not try to tell you different. My walk with Jesus is personal and I listen to Him. Sometimes He has to knock me up beside the head, but He gets His point accross.

Mrst  (smile) sure do like to converse with you. No I don't dress like the Amish or Mennonite either but still like the simplicity of the Mennonite. The Amish only bring in their wealth by their religion for on lookers. We are not to dress to bring others to specticale. Therefore I do not dress to call any attention of style.  I also feel the Amish are well under education in health and other aspects coming to money. I live close to them and know much of them. Yet they know one thing, being under subjection to their bishop in all different man made rules and work very hard. They are made to be self sufficient and do not live off government.

But I also believe that when it comes to God speaking to us and telling us what to do, it comes in the form of "Search and ye shall find".  The more you seek the more God speaks. It takes full will and desire to know what is truth. I am still learning too.

[Jise]

I've noticed how although some of the conservatives claim to be the most moral of the bunch within the SDA Church, I've noticed that many of them tend to have spread moral compromise.  I've read on the internet from biblical scholars that while God was against "racism", to a certain extent he was against multiculturalism to the extent that it involved the mixing of "Israel" with other nations whose ways were defined by idolatory and other immoral practices.  Is the Adventist Church encouraging moral compromise by encouraging such this kind of mixing?  The Church is basically being asked to accept mixing with people who simply have different ideas on issues of fornication, bearing false witness against others, etc.  - The SDA Church is essentially comprised of Israels being forced to mix and mingle with factions who are akin to peoples in the bible where the customs and way of life involved immoral fornicative practices.  This is in and of itself compromise - that I don't seek the Church leadership speaking out against - instead the laity is just asked to "throw money" at the problem.  These mores are ok, yet Gospel music we are told is not.  But the bible speaks out against peoples in the bible who were involved at a national level in immoral fornicative practices - the bible is not so clear on stating that drums in worship is wrong, etc.

[Murcielago]

Both the Amish and the Mennonites (the ones who wear unusual clothing) make a spectacle of themselves by their dress, and thereby call attention to themselves in a physical way, as do nuns, frocked priests, and anyone else who tries to show off their humility and religiousity by dressing themselves strangely.

[tinka]

Ted Wilson is reported to have stated that EGW's spirit of prophecy is as relevant today as is was yesterday.  Does he also mean that this is true regarding these statements she made: ""Opportunities are continually presenting themselves in the Southern States, and many wise, Christian colored men will be called to the work. But for several reasons white men must be chosen as leaders."
Ellen White, Testimonies, vol. 9, p. 202.

"The work of proclaiming the truth for this time is not to be hindered by an effort to adjust the position of the Negro race." Ellen White, Testimonies Vol. 9, page 214, paragraph

The Colored People should not urge that they be placed on an equality with White People." (Testimonies Vol. 9, page 214, Paragraph 3) "

I think he is - and this is the problem I have - this is why Ted Wilson and many of the "conservatives" in the SDA Church are not credible to me - especially when they try to scandalize liberalism.  Ted Wilson's theology seems to be a theology of bigotry and moral compromise - .
This theology is in fact even more dangerous than some other non-SDA theologies - and it is more dangerous than the gospel music listener to the fabric of society. This is why I find it highly hypocritical when conservatives in the SDA Church try and paint themselves as the standard bearers of the christian faith in comparison to "liberals".

You missed the most important "Context" of when and why these statements were made and therefore give this a whole different meaning.  The context meaning in "red" above. We are now in different era of time and circumstances as we climb above those days. and basically I took this to mean she protected and gave good counsel to that time as not to put into danger our fellow black men from the bad of that era of time. It is not hard to understand when taking in every word. I know for fact she even sent her money at times to them when she could. You know she had good reason with what ever she said and if you really look at it just a couple of words one does not want to read makes a whole different context.

The North and the South came into battle over much and it was not her duty to put black preachers in the line of harm..during that time or era.

[tinka]

Murcielago,
I agree but their is a way of dress that is never a spectacle and that is to just stay in modest dress and apparel that does not draw from ones countenance of natural beauty and cleanliness without all the bangles. It's called "class" and forget the style!! A person knows how they are dressed by the character they want others to preceive them as. christian, sexy, on the make, clean and neat, and....(laugh) conservative or liberal.  (costly array) or thrifty.   

[Murcielago]

Ok, I go with that. Classy is good. I don't have an issue with jewelry and do enjoy seeing it (well, some of it...), but enjoy the person even more (ummm, at least in most cases  )

Murcielago,
I agree but their is a way of dress that is never a spectacle and that is to just stay in modest dress and apparel that does not draw from ones countenance of natural beauty and cleanliness without all the bangles. It's called "class" and forget the style!! A person knows how they are dressed by the character they want others to preceive them as. christian, sexy, on the make, clean and neat, and....(laugh) conservative or liberal.  (costly array) or thrifty.   

[Jise]

Even the KKK viewed themselves as more "christian" than the people they lynched.  Ted Wilson's speech and ideas at the GC this summer is a distant cousin to the idea the KKK promoted or at least the "southern strategy".

It is true that people often "use" religion when they are trying to get "over" on others, or take advantage of others or endorse immorality and wrong doing.  This is what the KKK have done - and in some part - what the religious "right" have done.  Some conservatives have perpetuated Gross human atrocities yet they think by calling themselves christian that they claim the mantle over "christian" progressives.

Religion and christianity are too often used by "conservatives" to excuse immorality, wrondoing and moral compromise. 

[tinka]

Jise,
Hmmm, actually you bring up an interesting point. "Southern Strategy". One can ponder this for a moment.

Just what was their "southern strategy? Slaves that did all their work for them? They loved their life of ease?? while slaves worked and they did eat and made them their money to live a life of pride and luxury???  Why would they want to give this up???  They love their rebel flag to this day and claim "the south will rise again".

Their defeat was a bloody one. and it happened during the time of the 3rd angels message was to be given. What better plan could Satan divert the message using the selfease devised by him the lifestyle of "Southern strategy" of the use of inhuman slavery. Have they really been defeated and have come back with the cloak of different names in this late era? I knew some (what they call secret KKK people a few years back when discovering accidentally their secret meeting place without their knowing and carried the rebel flags in their trucks) Guess what they were not native northerners.  What changed with these characteristics of the North and the South Strategy in this late date??? Nothing!! In that era and time Northerners, coming from Europe and making and working their own way was a different "Strategy" so again we are divided in two different ways of life that continue and continue and could be called many names that mean the same two "Strategies". We still have it today divided by individuals and their upbringing which determines where ever they migrated to in what ever part of the country... but their "Strategy" is still there and they still are in the mode of "Southern strategy" whether they are still in the south or live in the north. The outcome of division is scattered in all parts of the nation with the passing of time.  I think it all depends on where your"roots" are from and originated not meaning that all Southerners think this way.  But some chose to move on and  live it in the "conservative" word of God and know their reward in the end and  some like to live with it still in their craw  in the devils street of "Southern strategy" and racism where there is no return and it remains to be relived and relived in each "Individuals choice of Strategy". Yes, their rebel flag still rises "cloaked". and the still "slaves" of history (not meaning all) do not overcome as some do. It is tooooo late in time for these "Strategies" to even be thought of now as the end nears.

The message given from that time forward was on a one to one basis of all human relationship with God and the ticket of "unity" for all one nation under God. But the flag was still there......the "liberal and Southern strategy" flag. God's plan or "flag" is another shall not work and another eat. Making Slaves were wrong from the get go. EGW and company  had the burden of the world on their shoulders to deliver 3rd angels message in this "rebel southern strategy" and still rising! again all southerns do not take this stance. My husband is a southerner from a very poor south western mountain state and family history never owned slaves and repulsed at the segregation of students during his young years. He was ashamed and hurt for the treatmeant of black students being on the bus long hours to go far to school. Yes there are people like my husband that have feeling and fought for the right of all human beings under God. But somehow the "racism" won't let some blacks reallize that legislature now holds their freedom for all. All can work for their own happiness, life of choice and equality. Some will reach for it in both black and white and some will not. and finally if you do work for it in this late era -- others are waiting to take it in all human races. Pretty bad by now would'nt you say as the "rebel" rises.