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[princessdi]

Adam, I glad to hear you call me friend, as I have no issue with you, and i think youa re a pretty decent guy.

Yeah I know what you mean.  Iknow of a story, that I can't tell because I don'tave permission, that is even wilder that this one.  Sad, isn't it?  I am not sure why these people don't see that they continue to victimized these young men when they do stuff like that!

Princessdi, my dear friend.

Why would anyone take Glenn Dryden's word as credible? The whole time that he was acting that he was on the side of the "victims" he was enpowering tommy to continue pastoring.

I'm going to share this story with permission of course.

I was told that at the hearing that Tommy plead guilty - He (Glenn) sent a member of his board there. His name is Keith Jacobs. Keith Jacobs came up to the two victims shook their hand and told them, "I am here to support you all." --- Now listen to this!!! Immediately after he said that- he went over and hugged Tommy- and sat by Tommy the entire wait for the hearing to start. Immediately after the hearing was over guess who was hugging and next to Tommy again? Yours Truely Keith Jacobs.

Can you imagine how that made the two victims feel? Here is a guy that claims to be on their side. Possibly says two words to them, then is over kissing Tommy's back end.

Make sense? Of course it don't. This is the type of pople that are attending that church. Hyppocrits!!!! And their pastor is the biggest one!

[Adam]

Di...

Seriously....Most counselors are nothing but frauds. Trust me, I've dealt with my share of them. Most of these "Proclaimed educated experts" are nothing but full blooded full steam a head psychopaths.

We all have different experiences - and in the United States of America - thank God - we have the liberty to tell others what we have experienced. However, the American law of Liberty forbids me to force my opinion of my encounters upon the conscience of another person. This is based  on the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Johann my dear friend:

I agree with your statement. However, I am at lost at what the last part is meaning. Is it fair to say that my discouragement of these "low lifes" is the same as others encouragment to visit them?

Thanks.

On my first visit to New York City I got cheated by a merchant who sold me a shirt (the year was 1952). Does that mean I can force you to believe that all traders in New York are evil?

I have a friend who can't stand McDonald's. Does that mean I either have to oppose him or agree with him in order to remain his friend?

I also have a very good friend who believes firmly in infant baptism. Should I ask the police to remove him from my vicinity unless he changes his conviction?

And then there are good friends I have who were sexually molested by a member of the family and they received a great spiritual blessing by talking to a counsellor. That counsellor was also a Lutheran pastor. Should I now, years later, ask them to remove any help they received at that time because they should never have talked to any counsellor - or that they should have gone to a pastor of their own church? (I am not revealing a secret because the story has been published - told by one of the victims.)

Johann my dear friend:

You failed to answer my question.

Perables to help you see the larger picture. . . Shall I give you a few more, my friend?

Johann: I want it to be known that I have tremendous respect for you. You have given your life to the service of God. You are truly an example of a life that God can use if we will only allow him to.

I understand what you mean completely. My point lies here. I am not a pastor nor am I a counselor.  However, I am very familiar with the way's these "self proclaimed experts" work. As I have not had good experiences with them.

Having said that....I am glad that they have been of use to some, folks. I just have an issue with people cramming down people's throats that they should see these menaces.

[Adam]

Adam, I glad to hear you call me friend, as I have no issue with you, and i think youa re a pretty decent guy.

Yeah I know what you mean.  Iknow of a story, that I can't tell because I don'tave permission, that is even wilder that this one.  Sad, isn't it?  I am not sure why these people don't see that they continue to victimized these young men when they do stuff like that!

Princessdi, my dear friend.

Why would anyone take Glenn Dryden's word as credible? The whole time that he was acting that he was on the side of the "victims" he was enpowering tommy to continue pastoring.

I'm going to share this story with permission of course.

I was told that at the hearing that Tommy plead guilty - He (Glenn) sent a member of his board there. His name is Keith Jacobs. Keith Jacobs came up to the two victims shook their hand and told them, "I am here to support you all." --- Now listen to this!!! Immediately after he said that- he went over and hugged Tommy- and sat by Tommy the entire wait for the hearing to start. Immediately after the hearing was over guess who was hugging and next to Tommy again? Yours Truely Keith Jacobs.

Can you imagine how that made the two victims feel? Here is a guy that claims to be on their side. Possibly says two words to them, then is over kissing Tommy's back end.

Make sense? Of course it don't. This is the type of pople that are attending that church. Hyppocrits!!!! And their pastor is the biggest one!

Likewise, Di! Your input is always appreicated. It is sickning to learn that people you believe you can "trust" are actually in the mix.  I have spoken to both victims and I assure you..they are at total loss why a "man of God" would act as though he was on their side...to learn that he was empowering their abuser.

I am also at loss, and I will not mention names...why some on here who have been faithful to the cause of letting the public know about "hiding things" are now standing with Glenn Dryden.

How can you not be furious at the fact that dammaging information  about the same man who has been on Tommy's trail for so long was actually "enabling him"?

[ex3abnemployee]

Why are you, Adam and Duane, assuming that all counselors have not "walked in your shoes"?   I completely understand your point.  I tell people all the time I take no advice about being single from someone who has been married for any decent amount of time.  So I know what you mean.  However, in this case, it can be very well that the counselor has been abused.  A little realized fact is that many counselors/psychologist/pyschariatist are led to that profession from "working through their own stuff".

I have to disagree with you, Duane, it is not like slapping God in the face.  He places "help" for us here on earth all the time.  it is the reason why the Bible puts so much emphasis on encouraging, upholding each other, bearing one another's burdens, and fellowship, while it also says that we have encourage ourselves.  There is a time and season fro everything.  Somethings we work out with God and God alone, others times He sends one of His children who are trained, educated, spiritually gifted and/or a personal testimony to help us.  It seems to me that it is actually you who is dictating to God in which way you will accept His help, limiting His ability to actually help you when He actually has limitless resources.

Now, I understand that you are happy just where you are, but just some thoughts for you to ponder.  Hopefully this will be my last word on this matter as I am not trying to coerce you into going to see a counselor.  

ROFL!!!! Educated? Pleasssssssssseeeeeeeee. How can you be an "expert" on something you have never experienced?

That is the same as a pastor saying he's an expert on "marriage counceling" when he's never been married!

The same is true of these "self proclaimed experts" on sex abuse. Until you have walked in a victims shoes, I'm sorry, but you're no expert.

I see. Since I am limiting God, then its best that I'm not even  here. I bid you all Godspeed.

[Alex L. Walker]

I am glad you said something Duane. I am pulling out of here too. Especially considering the support for Glenn Dryden. I am encouraging Adam to do the same.

May God Bless you all.

[Bob Pickle]

Re: counselors: The psychology course I took as a freshman in college made me suspicious of modern psychology. But Freud's nonsense and perverse mind does not negate the truth of Pr. 11:14.

I am also at loss, and I will not mention names...why some on here who have been faithful to the cause of letting the public know about "hiding things" are now standing with Glenn Dryden.

How can you not be furious at the fact that dammaging information  about the same man who has been on Tommy's trail for so long was actually "enabling him"?

There are questions that it will be helpful if he would answer. However, one question has perhaps already been answered.

[vestedinterest]

One more question for Pastor Dryden. Are you going to sue me? Please do.

Why would Pastor Dryden sue you, Adam? ( I guess I am asking rhetorically, since I read later that you have "pulled out").

[Adam]

One more question for Pastor Dryden. Are you going to sue me? Please do.

Why would Pastor Dryden sue you, Adam? ( I guess I am asking rhetorically, since I read later that you have "pulled out").

Exactly- why would you sue me Glenn? Let's think about that for a minute.

First, would it be smart on your part?

Nahhhhhhhh, I don't think so. Why? Because then you would be exposed.

So of course you wouldn't sue me.

[Adam]

Having said that... I am going to take the advice of my dear friend and join him and Duane. I am going to have to refrain from posting here. However, if I feel that things need to be explained or questions asked...I will be back.

It's been fun.....

[Snoopy]

So...you are going to refrain from posting here until you are back?

Having said that... I am going to take the advice of my dear friend and join him and Duane. I am going to have to refrain from posting here. However, if I feel that things need to be explained or questions asked...I will be back.

It's been fun.....

[Adam]

So...you are going to refrain from posting here until you are back?

Having said that... I am going to take the advice of my dear friend and join him and Duane. I am going to have to refrain from posting here. However, if I feel that things need to be explained or questions asked...I will be back.

It's been fun.....

Snoopy my dear Snoopy,


What exactly does that mean?

[Snoopy]

So...you are going to refrain from posting here until you are back?

Having said that... I am going to take the advice of my dear friend and join him and Duane. I am going to have to refrain from posting here. However, if I feel that things need to be explained or questions asked...I will be back.

It's been fun.....

Snoopy my dear Snoopy,


What exactly does that mean?

You tell me, my dear Adam.  I am just trying to clarify what you said.

[Snoopy]

ADMIN HAT ON

Please note that it is not necessary for members to announce their comings and goings from this forum.  If you are angry about something, we are truly sorry and would be happy to take it up with you PRIVATELY.  But please do remember that this is a public forum, discussing public issues, and welcoming public opinion.  Just because someone posts their opinion here that might differ from yours does not make this a bad forum.

ADMIN HAT OFF

[Gregory]

Counselors:

Some counselors help some people, some do not.  One must always chose wisely and well and that is not always easy.

I can understand those who chose not to go to a counselor.

I can understand those who chose to go to a counselor.

Eash person is responsible for the choices that they make in regard to their lives and how and from whom they seek help.

Let us all respect those choices that one makes and not criticize those who make choices different from what we might make for ourselves.

NOTE: In the above, one could replace teh work "counselors" with the word "clergy" and my statemets would be true.

[vestedinterest]

Gregory, you are right, the decision to seek counseling is a personal one. I liken it to childbirth - you can decline the epidural and go au natural, or you can take the epidural and sidestep the pain. Neither way is right/wrong.... in the realm of counseling, I was more or less discouraged by my church family from seeking help, and I toughed it out for a long time, til I was practically catatonic with a dash of suicidal.  Starting the "therapy" process was tough (but I did choose Christian counselors) , but along the way I was able to see what I WAS responsible for, and what I WASN't responsible for; that if my parents failed me when I was young, it might influence me as an adult, but ultimately I still could make choices.... and with God's help I could get out of the pit of despair, and start inching my way forward. What a blessed relief it was for me!  That is the only reason I encourage others on that path... but for those who feel it would be offensive to God, they should refrain. No epidural in that case.