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[horsethief]

Good point Murcialago...

The 3ABN cult sees themselves as being above the law. That's why Danny Shelton thought his presence and his threats would frighten Tommy's victims into complete compliance with him.

[Bob Pickle]

Gailon, to the contrary, I firmly believe in capital punishment. There are crimes that should certainly be met with a death sentence. But to put a person through torture is not necessary. Dead is dead. We don't need to become what we fight against.

That sounds appropriate to me.

[horsethief]

A liitle waterboarding could help scare a mind clean...

[tinka]

Tinka, did you miss the answer???

No I don't think so but,(smile) I wanted it a little more precise of what actually he would do for the punishment of admitted guilt. I know what he said but also have stated on here how the "punishment of death" can be used against the "innocent" under manipulating circumstances of perps to throw blame on someone else without the proper witnessing that is called for under the now "death penalty". We also have very enthusiastic police officers and prosecutors that like to make points.

In this case there is witnesses. There is admitted "guilt". I believe all should be done with at least "reasoning" of Biblical instructions. " Guess in reality, almost all Bibical "reasoning" in gone this late in time and evil exploding and no way to turn it around until Jesus comes. We are in it, deal with it and seek the best possible way in human compassion where "compassion" is almost gone. This "type of sin" has very little if no compassion from "normal" reasoning and it is no longer up to just the people of God to administer the "punishment" but the laws of the land we have to go with whether we like it or not. So therefore I would agree that life in prison would be the best solution. Life in prison for TS would be the "death penalty" according to your story of the young man that committed the "unpardonable" sin. The only thing in "compassion" on this type of sin might be how and what "kind of gardening" made the "seed" grow distorted. So shall we return to the "eye for eye" concept? and who would let us??? I believe in death penalty when and only when their is no room for doubt, and several witnesses as we are instructed, compassion in the right place and reasoning the biggest factor of all. James..reason in all things.

[Murcielago]

And yes, Tinka, we should be very cautious in use of the death penalty. Over-zealous, unscrupulous prosecutors have sent too many innocent people to their death. In my opinion they should be tried for murder. It is easy for people to get carried away and become what they abhore.

[princessdi]

...And satan would devise a cross for each one of us, if he had his way.  Unfortunately for you, Gailon, Jesus died for TS and DS while they also "were yet in their sins".........IOW, BEFORE they sinned, He knew they would sin........just like us.  Because in God's eyes sin is sin, whether it is a little white lie or child molestation, they ALL of the same consequence........"the wages of sin is death" There is no sin greater than the price paid by Christ.  Yes, we all do deserve that death, but Christ took it upon Himself and forgave us, paid the price for our past, present and future sins on that cross............."but the gift of God is eternal life".

Now, that is the model of forgiveness you and all of us should be working towards.

Quote removed.

[mrst53]

Scripture says- Vengence is Mine-sayeth the Lord.....I know that there must be punishment for the laws that have been broken. It used to be that the punishment fit the crime, I am not sure that is the case any longer. Locking someone up for the rest of his life to be raped repeatedly is not exactly the type of of punishment anyone deserves- except maybe another rapist or pedophile and then I am not so sure.  I wish I could say, I would be able to forgive, if it was my child that had been molested, but I might feel just like horsethief and want the punishment to fit the crime.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

I would suggest life in prison.

And are YOU prepared to spend your share of the time required to guard "on the wall" or "in the yard" with these "inhuman beasts"

I am not, and I don't want to ask any other human to take that risk. Hades is their home and they should be sent there!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

[horsethief]

If Tommy doesn't get jail time, then his wherabouts will be discovered and the community he is in will be made well aware that there is a dangerous predator living among them.

[princessdi]

I suppose TS will suffer the same fate as most sex offenders and have to register where ever he lives.  Also, here in California, they have had a difficult time placing some, even after prison time, if the community was alerted.  This is the life TS'sunfortunate choices have made for him and his family.

The reason God says Vengance is His, because we really need not do anything. Besides, the eternal judgement, which is God's alone, the more practical is that each sin carries it's own more immediate consequences.  Tommy's is a tortured mind and life filled with lies, deception, and, yes, pain.  He was never ti liflict that pain upon anyone else, let alone innocent teens/young men over whom he was in authority.  But as we all know "hurting people, hurt others".  At some point somebody in their familyy will have to be determine with God's help they will break this devastating cycle of abuse.  Until then, there will be more and more victims, and not only from TS.........

[princessdi]

But here's the good part, Mrst.  Forgiveness by no means releases the offender from the consequences of their actions.  So TS can be forgiven by everyone involved, and justice would still need to be done.  He would still need to be on trial for his crimes.  Sins carry their own consequences, and forgives by no means release us fromt hose consequences.

Examples:  Adam and Eve. Forgiven: yes.  Stillhad to leave the Garden, etc.  My Favorite David:  Forgien: yes.  Baby still died, house still jacked, etc.  God forgives, but as we see, we are by no means released from the natural consequences of our sins.

I believe we all really need a study on what forgiveness really is.

Scripture says- Vengence is Mine-sayeth the Lord.....I know that there must be punishment for the laws that have been broken. It used to be that the punishment fit the crime, I am not sure that is the case any longer. Locking someone up for the rest of his life to be raped repeatedly is not exactly the type of of punishment anyone deserves- except maybe another rapist or pedophile and then I am not so sure.  I wish I could say, I would be able to forgive, if it was my child that had been molested, but I might feel just like horsethief and want the punishment to fit the crime.

[horsethief]

I don't know if King David ever faced any instances of child molestation in his kingdom. But I am absolutely certain that if he did, then the molestor would have faced a swift and public execution...

[Bob Pickle]

I don't know if King David ever faced any instances of child molestation in his kingdom. But I am absolutely certain that if he did, then the molestor would have faced a swift and public execution...

That depends.

The man who claimed to have killed Saul at Saul's request was speedily executed. The men who murdered Ishbosheth were speedily executed.

But Amnon raped his sister Tamar, and David did absolutely nothing. His own sin of adultery with Bathsheba, and David's murder of his loyal servant, the converted Hittite Uriah, had brought him to the place where he could not justly and promptly deal with vile sin. And that unfortunate problem led to Absalom's rebellion.

If Tamar was under 18 and Amnon was over 18, in some jurisdictions Amnon's crime might be called child molestation, correct?

[horsethief]

True... I don't know how they handled things like that back then. A man raping a boy or a girl. Both situations I believe warrant life in prison.

Tommy couldn't restrain himself when it came to boys. Just like Danny can't restrain himself when it comes to teenage girls. We all know what I'm talking about.

[Bob Pickle]

Since God never ordained the use of jail time for crimes in Israel, I question whether that is the correct remedy. Given the dire effects on people's lives, I see His wisdom in prescribing the death penalty for rape and such.

But note that there were certain conditions that had to be met. For people caught in adultery, both the man and woman were to be punished equally. Not just the woman. And only in the city. In the country it was assumed that the lady had cried for help and no one could hear her. In other words, if you didn't want to get punished in the city, you had to cry out for help.