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[JustWondering]

http://cgi.ebay.com/TOMMY-SHELTON-HE-STAYED-CROSS-LP-SEALED-MINT-/330483407949
Someone must be cleaning out their closets.  Anyone know where the picture on the album cover was taken at?  It is tragic to think that the piano was used as bait to bring horror into the lives of so many.

[ex3abnemployee]

That photo was taken at the former First Church of God in Benton, IL.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Post removed. Inappropriate content.

[Emma]

I do not think it is up to us to find 'final solutions' for any one, Gailon.

In the medium term the courts of the land will find a solution, which thankfully in your country and mine does not include such
things as crucifixion, stoning and other barbarities.

For the longer term, God is the Judge.

[tinka]

Very true Emma, but this is one of the reasons we all should realize & shun the very ones that want it in this country from the comments that Gailon in bringing to ones attention. Seems ones that want Shiira (?spelling)law and the likes of their chosen political agendas that they voted for are alive and kicking into common place anymore.

But for a matter of fact I cannot see a better outcome for TS for what he did. I still am deep angry inside for these types of possessors of evil to the young and Innocent.

IF a person does not understand this evil or have sympathy and lean to help the perp in these worst of crimes, go to where you can see children that are so young and abused in this manner and see what you come away with. You do want someone to do something to those that did it. It is a bad feeling to have and can't blame anyone for those type of actions.

Wonder why the Lord had them put to death? I so imagine they went clear over the line of his "Plan of Life". It is plain, they went to far and the mind is too sick to recover as the perpetrator. When they finally get caught, the devil finishes them and claims they are his. He already belonged to Satan to do acts over and over for the perps pleasure. Sick, sick, sick and sick relatives that did not get him help and sympathized with it at its first inclination in their total fear of his evil upon others. Fact is they did not or must not cared what he would do to others.  Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed for out of order sexual acts and Lot's wife turned to a pillar of salt for even looking back. Hmmm, (Pillar of salt???) Didn't Danny look back? Pillar of salt huh.... I saw him recently and he looks like a "french fry" . I hope the judge knows what he is doing. and if he doesn't, I hope someone calls O'Reily.

[horsethief]

John Manley is a good man and among the righteous.


He has Danny in his cross-hairs. That's bad news for Danny.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

I do not think it is up to us to find 'final solutions' for any one, Gailon.

In the medium term the courts of the land will find a solution, which thankfully in your country and mine does not include such
things as crucifixion, stoning and other barbarities.

For the longer term, God is the Judge.

However, I will point out that criminal minds do not subscribe to the Geneva Convention  Nor do they subscribe to the guarantees of the United States Constitution. And in fact, their victims can be deprived of “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” in all too many ways.  

I suppose I would be easily accused of believing that those who work outside the code of civil conduct have in some form abrogated their rights and that is why we “jail them” in cells complete with bathroom, a bed and feed them 3 squares, provide phone time, exercise facilities, a law library, regular library, access to the internet, newspapers, television, and even “conjugal” visits. Not to mention free legal counsel and free medical care to avoid the consequences of their open and notorious sin.  

However, much to your chagrin, there is a biblical basis to believe that perpetrators deserve punishment in like kind to the criminal action of the perpetrator. I will also point out that the bible specifically subscribes “stoning” as the punishment for adultery, and I frankly understand why it was viewed with such abhorrence in a “Theocracy” and Leviticus is full of thou shall nots related to various forms of adultery and the punishment required…proof of the insidiousness that wholesale adultery, pornography, prostitution and the wholesale  promiscuity that can result,( not to mention the use of children and other hapless victims) that affects in society is everywhere about us and is a large reason that we suffer from the affects this miscreant behavior leads to throughout society.

I have NO SYMPATHY for these perpetrators in all their forms and look forward to a day when they all receive their just punishments…in the interim, yes, I support the DEATH PENALTY for adulterers in all their form. Pedophiles take away the entire life of the children they victimize and steal from them the dignity and security they deserve. The victims usually suffer from a form of Post Traumatic Syndrome that can be worse than combat stress in all its horrors.

So, yes, PEDOPHILES DESERVE A DEATH BY CRUCIFIXION to atone for the victims whose lives and security have been stolen and should suffer long and painfully for the crime they have committed against society and it’s children. It is an appropriate deterrent!!!

I do believe we will return to a societal abhorrence of these crimes and properly so and I predict we will be INDISCRIMINATE, unlike some of our islamist Muslims. And we should be!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

[Emma]

Tinka seems to be afraid Sharia law may come into effect in more parts of the world and Gailon is upholding
some of the punishments it requires.

Gailon I can read the Old Testament.....were those same punishments in effect in the Christian era?  We are not in a theocracy now.

Not chagrin.....just deep sorrow that anyone could show the spirit evident in your posts in this thread.  It is almost as though you
are exalting in the painful downfall of these men.

Yes the crimes of paedophilia and adultery are horrible.  I have personally been affected by the latter though not the former.  I would
never want to see my former spouse stoned.  I pray he can return to the things he once treated as important.

Let him who is without sin cast the first stone....who here could line up to do that?

We have all sinned and come short of the glory of God.

edited for clarity by Emma.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Gailon I can read the Old Testament.....were those same punishments in effect in the Christian era?  We are not in a theocracy now.

Not chagrin.....just deep sorrow that anyone could show the spirit evident in your posts in this thread.  It is almost as though you
are exalting in the painful downfall of these men.

Exalting in the painful downfall of these men? How about the simple concept that "THESE MEN" need to pay the consequences for the damage they, in tandem, have done to so many over the years and it needs to be ended, PERMANENTLY.

I do not find anything in New Testament principals that would abrogate the principal of paying the consequences for your open and notorious violation of others rights and privileges.

I beleive that in current society we have gone to the opposite extreme and allow perpetrators far too much sympathy and leniency, not to mention far too much benefit of the doubt.

I will note that the pain and suffering of the spouse and children of adulterers can be far too far reaching and economically devastating to allow the behaviour to simply be allowed without consequences.
And stoning is a perfect deterent to to even the consideration of this conduct. It has become proliferous because it goes unpunished and the perpetrators move on without consequences while the victims pay horrendous prices. NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

[Emma]

Gailon is there any reliable evidence that the death penalty is a deterrent against murder?

That is a genuine question, perhaps you are aware of things I am not.   Is the murder rate lower in those States in the US where
capital punishment is frequent?

Using similar reasoning, do you think your ideas about preventing adultery are realistic?

If I am going to get personal......when my spouse left me, I had to realise that God did not love him any less than God loved
me....and holding onto the pain and bitterness and wanting my ex to be unhappy/punished/embarrassed would only hurt my
children, and hold back my recovery.   

Any child abuse is horrific...in my opinion the first objective is to make sure s/he cannot reoffend.   I still happen to believe punishment is in the realms of the courts in this life, and from God in the next.

[horsethief]

Per Gailon:  "regular library, access to the internet, newspapers, television"

That's the ticket right there. Other prisoners will have no difficulty accessing the internet to find out what Tommy's crimes are.

That's why I stated before that it is important that Tommy's sentence include prison and that he is determined healthy enough to be among the general prison population.

Let their code of justice sort things out.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Yes the crimes of paedophilia and adultery are horrible.  I have personally been affected by the latter though not the former.  I would never want to see my former spouse stoned.  I pray he can return to the things he once treated as important.

Let him who is without sin cast the first stone....who here could line up to do that?

We have all sinned and come short of the glory of God.

edited for clarity by Emma.

I realize the concept is less than acceptable to “civil” society in the current historic period.

Let me point out that when Christ was asking “let him who is without sin, caste the first stone”, he was speaking to the perpetrators, some of whom had lead the this young lady into a life of sin. This assumes you believe the Spirit of Prophecy enlightenment on this issue.

The premise that no sinner is to participate in the punishment of another sinner is perverse. Yes, it is true that we have ALL sinned and FALLEN SHORT, but it does not preclude us from imposing a death sentence upon perpetrators of DEATH SENTENCE CRIMES against society. God, specifically “The Word” gave us clear instruction on how to handle adultery in its various forms. Our failure to open our eyes to the insidiousness of the crime and why “THE WORD” required it be a Death Penalty Crime is proof of our blindness to the requirements of God and why Danny Lee Shelton can get away with his actions and remain working for a REMNANT messenger. It is why Tommy Ray Shelton has not been punished and brought to justice, and similarly all the priests and other “pastors” that get away with death penalty crimes.

I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM THROWING THE FIRST STONE…and there were plenty in Israel that could easily have qualified, but the men that set up the young lady did so to trip up the Master of the universe… then realized He knew THIER sins, pointed out their sins and could cause them to suffer the same fate as the victim of their ploy. Thus they fled from the scene lest they suffer the consequences of their sins. Yes, Emma, they fled not from “stealing cookies” but because they had “unclean hands” but were themselves adulterers, AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN STONED. It was about hypocracy!!!

Our problem is that we have so diluted the consequence of sin we no longer recognize the levels of sin for what they are. Stealing cookies is not punishable by death. Destroying the life of another IS!!! And adultery and pedophilia destroy the lives of the victims…they deserve a death sentence and if we had one there would be far less of it.

We as a “CIVIL” society have gone so far from the principals of an orderly society we are now reaping the whirlwind of that abrogation worldwide with SELF GRATIFICATION being an absolute RULE OF LAW without regard to the consequences upon others. It is why we have a banking and foreclosure problem in the USA and why the world has lost all confidence in US collateralized paper. It is why we pretend to be the a noble and just empire while it is really about perpetuating our economic self interest, without regard to the impact upon the victims of our economic colonialization. It is why we send our “Divisions” and the Generals that command them (the Romans called them Legions) worldwide and why we have a “DEFENSE” budget bigger than nearly the entire worlds armies. It is why we can demand that other countries devalue their currencies or change their ”retirement age” while our own society depends upon their willingness to perpetuate our economic needs and “early retirement” runs rampant.  It is why we do not mine our own resources or drill for our own oil but would rather import billions of gallons from the world and pass the resulting risk to environment on to others while we strive for a “clean, green” environment.

It is why we spend BILLIONS ON SOCIAL SERVICES for the results of our sins of open and notorious adultery, pornography and pedophilia for the victims, frequently innocent victims, thereof. Society has so decayed we no longer recognize the results of this “modern” view and the results it has rent upon Amercian Society in the name of “FREEDOM” without consequences. We are so close to the same insidious values that lead to the fall of Rome, I have no alternative but to believe that we have “FILLED OUR CUP” and it is only the Grace of God for some unknown reason that prevents our complete destruction as it is most certainly the end result of our loss of values.

Unfortunately, Emma, I have no sympathy for the “ex” and you can rest assured he will pay the penalty for his sin, whether you find it acceptable or not…and note that I am sure that you and yours suffered mightily while he played without regard to the consequences. Rest assured I would vote for and throw the first stone!!!

If I had not felt so strongly about this, I would never have spent the time and effort I did pursuing justice for DLS and TRS. I am sorry you are so reticent on the issue, but I am uncompromising!!!
And where do you really stand??

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Gailon is there any reliable evidence that the death penalty is a deterrent against murder?

That is a genuine question, perhaps you are aware of things I am not.   Is the murder rate lower in those States in the US where
capital punishment is frequent?

There is the most obvious proof of this...those who are caught and are executed do not get the opportunity to kill again...and can you imagine just how pervasive "murder" would be if people knew it would not be punished???even by jail time???...I would propose that murder would be as prevalent as adultery...and prove it otherwise.

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

[Emma]

Gailon is there any reliable evidence that the death penalty is a deterrent against murder?

That is a genuine question, perhaps you are aware of things I am not.   Is the murder rate lower in those States in the US where
capital punishment is frequent?

There is the most obvious proof of this...those who are caught and are executed do not get the opportunity to kill again...and can you imagine just how pervasive "murder" would be if people knew it would not be punished???even by jail time???...I would propose that murder would be as prevalent as adultery...and prove it otherwise.

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

I was asking about real statistical proof, your argument presupposes that most murderers will reoffend.  And that statement does not answer the question about comparative rates of murder in States where the punishment is different.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

If I am going to get personal......when my spouse left me, I had to realise that God did not love him any less than God loved
me....and holding onto the pain and bitterness and wanting my ex to be unhappy/punished/embarrassed would only hurt my
children, and hold back my recovery.   

Any child abuse is horrific...in my opinion the first objective is to make sure s/he cannot reoffend.   I still happen to believe punishment is in the realms of the courts in this life, and from God in the next.

I will again point out, yes, God loves the sinner and offers redemption, but the wages of sin is Death, and other than those whom have the great opportunity to "walk with God" in a perfectly sinless relationship post International Sunday Law, the rest of us will feel it's bite.

However, the more important point is that while God does offer an offer of Redemption, He does not and has not given any evidence that man is not to suffer the consequences of his sins upon society.

And yes, if one commits adultery and the penalty is death, he must suffer the consequences, however, the Lord in his Mercy has made available a "resurrection" for those who confess, repent, reform and take their consequences like only a man in Christ can do.

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter