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[tinka]

Let's get one thing clear about my anger. My anger is there  and heavy because of is what is being done to the poor already poor enough..the taking of small business, the taking of their property what they already paid into. to where they cannot get jobs from the brand new tax system to come the forced healthcare that will be paid through your ownraised taxes to where we can't live. Ghost towns, ghost factories, and just plain bad ghosts like people of your mentality of what is really going on in the big picture. Government dependant yep that is what you voted for and have come on here and readily admitted. So what else is good in your mud hole?

[horsethief]

THEODORE ROOSEVELT
 
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,but morally treasonable to the American public."

[Murcielago]

A resounding Amen to Roosevelt. And then came Wilson with his attempts to place government controls on what the media was allowed to say, and to quash criticizm of the president as a form of treason.

It seems that Tinka has issues with the Obamas that, in her view, relate to policy, as personal principles may reflect the foundations behind the broader policies. Tinka, simply to establish an understanding, would it be fair to say that you don't believe there is any possible merit to views you haven't embraced, and that discussion is not a means of mutual enlightenment? That could be an entirely unfair assesment, but I am interested in hearing your self-assement, in the context of how others see your position.

Christian, I am particularly  interested in your views. On the surface, one would be reasonably led to assume that you give blanket approval to Obama, hold that he is sent by God, and consider opposition to him as being purely race-based and un-Christian. These observations are based on your posted responses to the various posts opposing Obama. I think most would view your position as being almost identical to that of Tinka, in that one would think you don't allow that there could be any merit to other views and opinions. However, this could be a total misconception and I am interested in hearing your views on that.

[tinka]

A resounding Amen to Roosevelt. And then came Wilson with his attempts to place government controls on what the media was allowed to say, and to quash criticism of the president as a form of treason.

It seems that Tinka has issues with the Obamas that, in her view, relate to policy (yes very much so because it impacts devastation to people that I have compassion for), as personal principles may reflect the foundations behind the broader policies. ( yes again according to Bible and SP and Personal principles also came from experience in the worst possible form. I have it all on a web site or political reasons as truth of actions from political corruption) Tinka, simply to establish an understanding, would it be fair to say that you don't believe there is any possible merit to views you haven't embraced, ( There is much I have to learn and much I do not know but,I do not speak on something unless I have the experience or the documents to prove) and that discussion is not a means of mutual enlightenment? (Discussion contributes only mutualy when two people have the same facts and then to whether a person knows what they are talking about or not and that leaves either one on different views as it is very obvious that one either has opinion of what they have not picked up with fact or just heresay of ones own leader or guru and the other has fact. But when they refuse to give fact then what else shows but arrogance Do you think that Bob and Gailon of whom not many like- got on here with the facts and what happened to them too from the sympathizers??). That could be an entirely unfair assesment, but I am interested in hearing your self-assement, in the context of how others see your position. (I watch very closely how others see my position and some jump to conclusion and have opinions of clear different then what I said. I realize many do not like straight out to the point talk but there is a little trick to that. It brings out an inner character that is quick to know and where they might be coming from. My interest is in the Character of so called Adventist and believe me I am getting a good lesson. It confirms much to me and to trust no man. Some on here I believe are very humble and truthful, peaceful, and also to the point and I have no problem what so ever in understanding them and their honest positions and where they are not talking in circles and contradicting and slang verbage. Of course when they do that it turns to fun then with me.  I laugh a lot doing it. I do not deal well with the devils advocate and am outspoken against only what takes on adversity to the God that gave all. I hate the actions of calling theirselves Christians and hiding behind adverse evil denied happenings.  If you have watched when someone posts either history of true fact and if I did not know it I admit it. and my mind is always at anytime open to something proved and it is so obvious when someone is stating honesly. I am sure some even think worse then this of me but yes, I hang to superior guidlines. except to direct some statements into thought (smile)

Christian, I am particularly interested in your views. On the surface, one would be reasonably led to assume that you give blanket approval to Obama, hold that he is sent by God, and consider opposition to him as being purely race-based and un-Christian. These observations are based on your posted responses to the various posts opposing Obama. I think most would view your position as being almost identical to that of Tinka, in that one would think you don't allow that there could be any merit to other views and opinions. However, this could be a total misconception and I am interested in hearing your views on that.

[horsethief]

I've found that the persons that label others as 'racists' and 'haters' are usually the ones who are the most deserving of the label itself.

[Murcielago]

Tinka, whether one agrees with you or not, you certainly do provide a very accurate view on what early Adentism was. You are also a powerful living example of the mind set of early missionaries from the London Missionary Society, Yale, the Heugenots and the Dutch Reform Church.

Although we are often in disagreement, I continue to learn from you.

[tinka]

Murcielago,
Thank you and I hope I do not cause many disagreements you have with me. I appreciate your History and much info you put out.

I always keep in mind if I am disappointing Jesus with my flaws as he suffered much for me and I do picture Him as the cleanest, purest, natural, flawless in looks and movements with no earthly attributes that we have or find to make ourselves something we are not --compared to Him. Elegance in Glory and beauty comes with His Purity. I might add this is a poor try in words to explain what I am aware of. Much suffering in my life and heart for others that suffer too may have given me a little glimpse but won't know for sure until that day. I know I woke breathless with thoughts that never leave me. So even as flawed as we all are I see beauty in others that know Him this way. and as we worship on Sabbath I cannot think of "I" songs or "I" wants or "my talents" in "My preferences of style" "wrong movements" and decked out junk unless you have the only clothes on you own.  It is soley coming in humbleness, thankfulness and praising him in heart to heart repentance of all disappointments to him I cause. and I know that all people were born with His approval "patterns of trial" and His breath of life and so why would I ever be a racist? and live in the Heavenly Home.

[Chrissie]

I've found that the persons that label others as 'racists' and 'haters' are usually the ones who are the most deserving of the label itself.

I'm sorry that has been your experience  :horse:thief. You may well be right about 'haters', but it has been far from my experience, about 'racism'. Sadly, we still see it in the SDA Church; probably nearly as much as anywhere else. 

Maybe, those people don't recognise it for what it is?

[tinka]

What racism do you mean, Whites that feel more supreme with hate and form organizations because the Blacks that still hate and have revenge and form their own racial organizations to be different? Why should there be a difference in this day and time?  I know yes, Di you bring up the past actions and yes some inadequacies pop up here and there but there is also law now and it don't fly anymore. Yes, that is still fought against by those who do not want it and do everything they can to be educated into unity for the sake of a Father who loves all His children and it has had a hard way to go to change and it must start with the individuals problem. and the ones that still have it are far from giving love back to the Creator in acceptance for His Love by getting on with no racism --but all Americans and all countrymen under one banner. I guess more then anything that will be one great thing in heaven when for sure racism will be no more.  all will be made and think new "like Jesus". Satan sure had a field day with this and now the "racism of religion" where the beast is about to devour a people that are under the true God's banner. How long can America stand this one? and that Crissie is the broad picture.

[christian]

A resounding Amen to Roosevelt. And then came Wilson with his attempts to place government controls on what the media was allowed to say, and to quash criticizm of the president as a form of treason.

It seems that Tinka has issues with the Obamas that, in her view, relate to policy, as personal principles may reflect the foundations behind the broader policies. Tinka, simply to establish an understanding, would it be fair to say that you don't believe there is any possible merit to views you haven't embraced, and that discussion is not a means of mutual enlightenment? That could be an entirely unfair assesment, but I am interested in hearing your self-assement, in the context of how others see your position.

Christian, I am particularly  interested in your views. On the surface, one would be reasonably led to assume that you give blanket approval to Obama, hold that he is sent by God, and consider opposition to him as being purely race-based and un-Christian. These observations are based on your posted responses to the various posts opposing Obama. I think most would view your position as being almost identical to that of Tinka, in that one would think you don't allow that there could be any merit to other views and opinions. However, this could be a total misconception and I am interested in hearing your views on that.

I choose to disagree with you on your statement that one would assume (and you know what assume means, ass u me) that I give a blanket approval to Obama. My contention is, and has been from the very beginning, that there are individuals who have plotted to destroy the mans Presidency from the onset. And my position on Obama is in fact the same position I had on Bush, give them time. Now I must admit that I understand the need for Health-Care for all people of the United States regardless of economical status, and the need for it to be such that an individual does not need to lose all he has to obtain it. My evaluation of Obama is mostly from a World view. I have been to a number of countries, Kenya, Japan, France, Philippeans, Korea, Israel,Greece, Egypt etc. And to a large degree I see from some here the same kind of no care attitude especially as it concerns the poor that I have witness in there countries. Some portions of share the wealth are indeed needed and that is undeniable. But the rich and the greedy would have you think that there is some inherent evil in providing basic goods for all American, moreover for all humanity. AGAIN I HAVE NEVER ADVOCATED A BLANK CHECK FOR OBAMA BUT I AM NOT BLIND TO THE APPARENT DESIRED DESTRUCTION OF HIS PRSIDENCY BY SOME. I still remember Rush Limbaugh before the man was sworn into office saying he hopes he fails and will work to that end. My contention is that the current situation is a direct result of the last 12 years of George Bush Sr and Junior. As I have said before I remember when the tea party was hijacked by the Conservative Republicans two weeks after the man got in office. And let me tell you that I am a close follower of Politics and this is the first time in memorable history that I have ever seen people so very upset with the First lady. Even in the worst of time usually most will not ventrue hatred upon the Presidents wife. And some of the things being written about the way she looks and etc... are down right flat out prejudice.

[princessdi]

Murcielago, chrissie, and Christian, you are right on the money.  In fact, there is a movie that came out about the exact same thing.  Several people vewing the same incident, and coming to different conclusiona nd impressions about that one incident....depending on tgheir point of view......Not sure of the name of the movie.....Hehehehe!


Tinka, I am not sure which statement by Michelle Obama's to which you are referring. If it is the one about "being proud of United States"(paraphrasing here).  Then being also AFrican American in heritage, I would take it to mean that the US had made a major step toward resolving our racial issues by nominating a African American Preside.  Something I didn't believe most of the country was ready for, and I was basically right....some still are not ready.  However, since none of us are in any position to ask the First Lady, what exactly she meant, then her statement is open to inpertretation.....depending on ones point of view.   

[tinka]

Well Di, there you go again, I spelled out exactly what she said on c-span when asked questions and you did not even read it but gave your off the wall version again not even knowing what was stated.  

better yet I think you know and just don't want to face up to it and play this game of  .  so you can go on with your justificatons.

BTW you teach SS and still into the movies too??  HeHeHe.

[christian]

What racism do you mean, Whites that feel more supreme with hate and form organizations because the Blacks that still hate and have revenge and form their own racial organizations to be different? Why should there be a difference in this day and time?  I know yes, Di you bring up the past actions and yes some inadequacies pop up here and there but there is also law now and it don't fly anymore. Yes, that is still fought against by those who do not want it and do everything they can to be educated into unity for the sake of a Father who loves all His children and it has had a hard way to go to change and it must start with the individuals problem. and the ones that still have it are far from giving love back to the Creator in acceptance for His Love by getting on with no racism --but all Americans and all countrymen under one banner. I guess more then anything that will be one great thing in heaven when for sure racism will be no more.  all will be made and think new "like Jesus". Satan sure had a field day with this and now the "racism of religion" where the beast is about to devour a people that are under the true God's banner. How long can America stand this one? and that Crissie is the broad picture.

Tinka and I agree on this one. I see no reason for the separation of Conferences and the like. Iprepose that the Ohio confrence and other white conferences disband immediatly and join alleganey west and etc...

[princessdi]

I didn't see the movie, Tinka, but yes, I still do watch movies.  My taste in movies is a lot more conservative than you would think.  

No tinka, I didnt' read it, because whatever she said, I know she didn't mean it in the way you interpret it.  You are busy trying to paint her as un-American, and Him as not American at all.  I know I disagree with that, and I know your interpretation of whatever they say will be based in that false set of beliefs.  It is all very tiresome, really.  So no, I put no effort in reading it.  Just not in the mood today.  I don't have a whole lot of patience, even though I love a good debate.  the opposing side has to at least present something that will make me think, not tire my mind and make me weary.

[princessdi]

Just let me correct one thing here.  It is NOT black people's idea to start or even continue regional conferences.  They were Gc's response to the growing concern of their white members that they would have to worship and God forbid be lead by blacks.  They were actually started after the death of Lucy Baird, a black woman who went to one of the white SDAs hospitals and they refused to treat her.  Instead, sending her.....in a taxi cab.......with a severely advanced case of pneumonia.  Needless to say, she died upon arrival across town to the black hospital.  They had actually started working on her as the Baird's were very fair in skins color, IOW, they could of passed[for white] if they so desired.  After the clerk reviewed their admittance forms for accuracy and saw that they were black, he brought it to the attention of the Dr., who then stopped working on her.

The reason that they are in existence now, is that the very samy conditions exist within the Advnetist church that madethem nevessary in the beginning.  If they were to blend the conferences at this point, they would simply dissolve the regional conferences and allow the black conferences to absorb the churches and only all the employees at the regional conferences would be jobless, instead of trying to see who was most qualified for each position, etc.  So, I guess you can say that blacks also want to keep the regional conferences at this point, but with good reason.  I really don't believe they have anything to worry about.  GC has no present plans to disban regional conferences.

Yes, Tinka, racism is alive and kicking inthe Adventist church, my parents were directly affected whent hey mistakenly attended a local church when we were at our timeshare.  Heck, it is still alive and kicking here with SDA members at AT.

What racism do you mean, Whites that feel more supreme with hate and form organizations because the Blacks that still hate and have revenge and form their own racial organizations to be different? Why should there be a difference in this day and time?  I know yes, Di you bring up the past actions and yes some inadequacies pop up here and there but there is also law now and it don't fly anymore. Yes, that is still fought against by those who do not want it and do everything they can to be educated into unity for the sake of a Father who loves all His children and it has had a hard way to go to change and it must start with the individuals problem. and the ones that still have it are far from giving love back to the Creator in acceptance for His Love by getting on with no racism --but all Americans and all countrymen under one banner. I guess more then anything that will be one great thing in heaven when for sure racism will be no more.  all will be made and think new "like Jesus". Satan sure had a field day with this and now the "racism of religion" where the beast is about to devour a people that are under the true God's banner. How long can America stand this one? and that Crissie is the broad picture.