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[Artiste]

Sounds like 3ABN to me, horsethief!

[mrst53]

Why would the SDA church be considered a cult? I have heard them called that, but I can't agree. Never have and after being on here with you all, still can't.

[Bob Pickle]

I think, mrst53, that some folks who would like to refute what Adventists believe have a hard time doing so using the Bible and simple logic. And so they choose instead to resort to name calling and smear tactics.

The same kind of thing has been done for centuries.

[christian]

Why would the SDA church be considered a cult? I have heard them called that, but I can't agree. Never have and after being on here with you all, still can't.

I believe the Adventist Church indeed does have the truth for this time we live, Sabbath, Investigative Judgment etc... But I also believe they have become a cult, in that loyalty to the church and their leaders often trumps the truth as it is in Jesus. A great deal of the problem with the church can be attributed to their moving away from the writings of Ellen G. White and relying on there own (in many cases) logic which puts them in direct conflict with there own stated beliefs. The foundation of the church in its original configuration was a safeguard against cultish behaviors and practices, but the moving away from the original principles of the church has indeed made it for many no more than a cult

[Bob Pickle]

I think "cult" is too strong a word. "Laodicean" sounds much more appropriate to me.

"But I also believe they have become a cult, in that loyalty to the church and their leaders often trumps the truth as it is in Jesus. A great deal of the problem with the church can be attributed to their moving away from the [Bible] and relying on there own (in many cases) logic which puts them in direct conflict with there own stated beliefs. The foundation of the church in its original configuration was a safeguard against cultish behaviors and practices, but the moving away from the original principles of the church has indeed made it for many no more than a cult."

Can you name any churches out there which would not fit the above slightly altered description you gave? If not, would you feel comfortable calling all churches "cults"?

[christian]

I think "cult" is too strong a word. "Laodice an" sounds much more appropriate to me.

"But I also believe they have become a cult, in that loyalty to the church and their leaders often trumps the truth as it is in Jesus. A great deal of the problem with the church can be attributed to their moving away from the [Bible] and relying on there own (in many cases) logic which puts them in direct conflict with there own stated beliefs. The foundation of the church in its original configuration was a safeguard against cultish behaviors and practices, but the moving away from the original principles of the church has indeed made it for many no more than a cult."

Can you name any churches out there which would not fit the above slightly altered description you gave? If not, would you feel comfortable calling all churches "cults"?

Thanks Pickle. What I was trying to say is that the church in its beginning and taken properly is not a cult. But, for many, I think it is undeniable, the church is no more than a cult. -----And most churches if not all have elements of cultish behavior in them. But I do agree with you the church as in true practicing Adventist are more apply described as Laodicia.

[tinka]

Because of the Era of time when Spiritualism poked its ugly head, EGW was given vision along with other men having the same vision and she alone did not want to venture into the calling of "messanger" because she felt strongly that most people would think exactly then how they do now. (Why would God let Satan display his ugly head to convince the evil power present and not show His power of truth for this new trick in this era of time.)  But the inspiration was strong and she complied knowing this evil at this time. and because of a woman entering into this frail and weak- it automatically became this issue with people that did not venture in themselves to see beyond their own opinions of religious cares.  The "messenger" was just to bring light to the already written word. To make it more simple of understanding for the lazy that did not figure out true "doctrine". She wrote many times that -hard study unless given "light" was hard to get through from the visions of John because much was written in symbolism. "example" the cleansing of the Sanctuary and a timing of Jesus return and the Great disappointment of return. Not only was there "visions" but the hard study came of "eras of History in generations of books to weigh up against the prophecies where all fell into place that proved the Biblical "doctrine" as truth. That is why there is references in every book of details A lifetime of study and a lifetime of writing can only come from the "Holy Spirit" to the one that excepted this last day message to give to the sincere hearts of people. Visions confirmed Bible and Bible confirmed History. and Adventist are the product of knowing all truth coming from combining Bible that matches History. But outsiders, because they felt a woman founder that was given "vision" --that it comes from their own beliefs that stem from "Spiritualism." and that-- they do believe that from evil experience and not believing or thinking that the Holy Spirit has the power to do likewise in the manner of good and "messaging" to God's latter day people. There had to be a way to bring on the 3 angels message and that is all it was.    I can be a little more specific, it is like me not believing a woman should be ordained a preacher and still don't. But if a woman is called for God's purpose as EGW even though she only calls herself a messenger and not a prophet is a whole different scenario then EGW being called to be an ordained preacher of which she was not. I call her a "called prophet" and that is what people cannot come into except and then use the word "cult". My version is strong as I have taken Heaven a serious thing and am sure the Bible has left serious instructions on how to get there and meet Jesus. I am mostly thankful that there was a last hour instruction message as back in the 1800's people did not even adhere to the second coming...according to History! I also take the time to see where truth lies....in all things. and the problem comes when one does not.

[mrst53]

Waco and David Koresh would have been a cult. I think when people stop following Jesus Christ and start following" someone" then it  becomes a cult. Altho people have a problem with the Jehovah witness'. I have studied with them and found that their Bibles leave out scriptures from the King James Original Greek Version and they have no answer to that. Jesus Christ can find believers in all places if they are searching. I am not going to judge anyone, just preach Jesus Christ.

[horsethief]

Here are some religious cult leaders from history and modern days.



The Bab (1819-1850) and Baha'u'llah (1817-1892) serve as the founders of Baha'i. "The Bab" stated that he was the greatest manifestation of God. He was followed by Baha'u'llah who supposedly brought even greater revelation to light. These leaders believed God to be ineffable and unknowable. Their history is filled with failed prophecy.


Guy Ballard (1878-1939) based The Mighty I AM cult on the spiritistic revelations of him and his wife.


Charles Fillmore (1854-1948) is credited with founding the Unity School of Christianity. His writings are highly regarded, as is the Bible, when interpreted by Unity.


Joseph Smith (1805-1844) based Mormonism on supernatural revelations that he received.


Sun Myung Moon (1920- ), the founded of the Unification Church claims that Jesus visited him, charging him with finishing the work that Jesus came to do. Moon claims to succeed where Jesus failed.


David Koresh (1959-1993) led the Branch Davidians authoritatively. He has been accused of sexual abuse and of harming young children.


Victor Paul Wierwille (1917 -1985), founder of The Way International, claims that God audibly spoke to him, telling him to interpret the Bible in a whole new way.


L. Ron Hubbard (1911-1986) is listed as the founder of scientology. He claimed his writings are the only source for solving the problems of mankind.
Religious cult leaders are often very charismatic and considered to be unique in some way. Often times, the leader claims to be a god, angel, or a messenger for God assigned for a specific mission. He or she is held in high reproach and gradually becomes the center of worship. It is often very dangerous to contradict or criticize the cult leader. Members who do so are often excommunicated or severely punished. Ultimately, the leader gets his way, no matter who he tramples in the process, including government authorities, etc.

Leaders are often preoccupied with making money and bringing in new members. Once members are added, the leader will dictate how they should think and act. Day-to-day decisions are often brought to the leader for approval.

[tinka]

Reading all of EGW proves she was none of the above. Her writings are totally different then the money makers versions and self proclaimed messiahs.

She claims nothing of herself or for herself.

She leads back only to Bible and writers of History to prove Bible

Her visions of past events are the only ones that have came true that she gave before they happened. (Oakland, New York, San Fransisco, Battlecreek and more) Some Adventist do not like to make the connection of the latest 9-11. But it is there big and plain. Check on Volume 9 T. starting on chapter 11 page 9. and....the fire engines could not quench the fires. (Sort of coincidence ??) No I do not think so.

Her messages were for the benefit and good of the people in health and welfare, discipline and stewards of all things that God created. Everything  she wrote pointed to the Good and Love of God that He has for man and wooing man to HImself working through human instrument.

No other wrote like it or the trail of it that it presented and followed. It is the "Golden Nugget" sifted and found amongst the dirt. There has always been a duplicate of God's things from the "Deceiver" and there has always been a choice to choose from. The reason most of the others can gain money and fame is they collect "followers that follow after their own folly". Ya know sort of what you find some on here.

[princessdi]

Mainly because we don't do a good job of representing what we stand for.  Far too many "versions" out there.  Mostly those who tend ot use EGW in to wrong way.  We are seen as a group who above all ollow the teachings of a dead woman, over the Bible.  We place emphasis on works, such as the Sabbath and diet to the exclusion of everything else.

Why would the SDA church be considered a cult? I have heard them called that, but I can't agree. Never have and after being on here with you all, still can't.

[christian]

Mainly because we don't do a good job of representing what we stand for.  Far too many "versions" out there.  Mostly those who tend ot use EGW in to wrong way.  We are seen as a group who above all ollow the teachings of a dead woman, over the Bible.  We place emphasis on works, such as the Sabbath and diet to the exclusion of everything else.

Why would the SDA church be considered a cult? I have heard them called that, but I can't agree. Never have and after being on here with you all, still can't.

Princess I have to disagree with you on this one. I think Satan has succeded in filling our heads with his lies. The emphasis is not on works and the sabbath and diet, that is the lie he has allowed us to believe. It is the opposite of that instead we are retreating back to Egypt for the meat that was there. We are becoming some of the most unhealthy sickly and we dont even understand how to keep the sabbath holy.

[Murcielago]

Actually, Christian, the longest living, healthiest people in the Americas are the Adventists who live in Loma Linda, California. Researchers from around the world go to Loma Linda every year in order to study the Adventists and learn the secrets to their health and longevity.

[Johann]

Actually, Christian, the longest living, healthiest people in the Americas are the Adventists who live in Loma Linda, California. Researchers from around the world go to Loma Linda every year in order to study the Adventists and learn the secrets to their health and longevity.

Is that because they follow health principles or is it because they have such good physicians all around them?

[princessdi]

Actually Johann, there was a documentary about just this subject.  It was more about the Adventist hospital system, but they did talk quite a bit about Loma Linda being a Blue Zone"  where folks live longer, and it was because of their diet/lifestyle.  The documentary also mentioned it being an interesting development in such a area of cutting edge medical advancements.   It was a very good documentary, I was proud.

Now that being said, for as long as Adventism has been in extence here in the US, why don't we have "Blue Zones" around every Advnetist church?  Or at least the churches themselves.  We are called to be witnesses.  The Sabbath and health message are excellent witnessing tools.............what have we done wrong here.  We are the one with the information, why didnt' we effectively get that out to the masses, or even more of the masses?  Those are the questions we need to ask oursleves.  There has been some publicity about it, Oprah did a segment, the PBS documentary, but what can we do everyday to be the most effective witnesses for Jesus Christ? 

Christian, I am not saying that the Sabbath or the health message are not important, they are very important.  However, far too many times those things have been focused on as ways to earn salvation.  We cannot earn salvation.  We dont' do a very good job of teaching that we "do" these things out of a love relationship with Christ.  We want to please Him, He gave ALL for us.  In everything He should be our focus.  That way people know why they are vegetarians/vegans, show up on Saturdays and not Sundays for church, believe that we don't immediately go to heaven at the moment of death, etc.  That is the reason these things will not be a chore.  Scaroing folks into submission, or just because it is written here in this book, wont' even cut it on Judgement Day.  It is keeping the Sabbath, choosing a right diet within a relationship with Jesus Christ that will count.

Actually, Christian, the longest living, healthiest people in the Americas are the Adventists who live in Loma Linda, California. Researchers from around the world go to Loma Linda every year in order to study the Adventists and learn the secrets to their health and longevity.

Is that because they follow health principles or is it because they have such good physicians all around them?