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[Murcielago]

An 11 story, $100 mil mosque is now slated for construction across the street from where the World Trade Center towers formerly stood. Some call it "the 9/11 Victory Mosque" and others say that it will be central to healing the rift between Islam and the West. Its founders state that its purpose is to bring people of all faiths together, that people of other faiths will sit on its board, and that it will house an interfaith chapel. Opponents say that its purpose aside, it shows insensitivity to the survivors of 9/11, and the families of those who died.

What do you think?

[tinka]

That's a good question Murcielago,  but I think it is not what we think it's what the patriots will do? I've been watching all the news blogs and it is not pretty what most people think. It is too bad to have it put on here. The handwriting is on the wall. Some of the blogs do not know how the Obamablabla (by Palin) is still walking around. People scuffed at what was going to happen to American, The best question is it now, or a little later. I think the beginning is now. It's just to big and too bad for it to get better. Obamablabla just put tax on Pizza. I believe the red necks will be a "firing their guns" soon according to the upheaval of the blogs.

[princessdi]

Well, I think that if we are going to get anywhere near respecting the tenants of this nation about accepting all, we will have to separate the actions of extremist from the normal Muslim.  it was the actions of extremists who are responsible for the tragedy at the Towers. 

Tinka, i am very disappointed at you quoting sarah Palin.  She is a very ignorant woman, but not too stupid to make money off of feeding folks her ignorance.  She needs to tend to her daughter who has some serious issues right about now.

I do, however, agree with you about it being about what the families/victims feel about it.   

[Murcielago]

I am all for inter-faith conferencing and shoulder rubbing. Groups who wall themselves in fall to the ailments that plague any kind of multi-generational incest. In this particular case I believe that it is terribly insensitive to the 9/11 survivors, families of the dead, the City of New York, and to the nation at large. This mosque could be built anywhere else in New York without creating the deep offense that has been inflicted.

Btw, Princess, your thoughts on Sarah Palin accurately reflect my thoughts on "Christian" music performers and evangelists who do it for money, and I have a hard time believing that people actually take them seriously.

[Murcielago]

It would be kinda like the Japanese putting up a statue of Emperor Hirohito at Pearl Harbour.

[tinka]

Di,
What makes you think Palin is so ignorant, she has the views of hard working Americans that are about to be cheated out of their country by premeditated and preplanned long terned annihilation of America by the ungodly Muslims. Americans built this country under one God and Christianity. They were deceived at last by slowly being  lax and giving up their ways of God in Judgement mostly by the inner working of the liberals.  Americans were fooled, cheated and lied to and now they know it except the diehards.

I am not so sure Palin will be in leadership but she is far from ignorant. Now she is a woman that many woman can be jealous of. She has true beauty class, strength and common sense agendas.  First of all, she is mentally Independent of being led by anyone. a strong individual, down to earth,  moose skinner, hunter and fisherman good mother, country minded of the heartland and lives it and she has a husband that has his own identity that she still respects as I see in her actions, they work together, yet his role is still very protective of her even tho she I don't think --any one man would want to tangle with her physically with her capabilities and yet has the know how to keep very feminine. She takes everything in stride as it comes and can turns it on a dime. She is not out there trying to look like a clown "style" in fashion to hide all or any if she has any ugly parts.  I never saw such idiot clothes on a person till Mrs. Obamablabla, I do not know what the deal is with the Muslim dully in the White House but it sure don't have the look of a love nest. In fact it much appears it is a project. No I do not ever want to rub shoulders with haters of America calling us Satan, Haters of our Jesus, all the while people trying to join together that which is unevenly yoked. Did you all forget what happened to God's people when they intermarried. There seems to be quite a lack of understanding of past experiences Biblically. What makes you think of putting people in to Guide America that is a Jesus hater to lead. You all will suffer the consequences. Yes, there is no doubt an agenda with the mosque. If you haven't noticed it is a high agenda for them to filtrate every town there is and their agenda is to attack within. The same tactic used in the Bible of the Trojan Horse. We will be deceived into a blood bath as it calls for Biblically. Maybe sooner then later according to what I am reading in the people that are the true Americans that fought for this country and the ones that protect their "given lives" for it. What in the world are ya all thinkin? let me guess, --this will lead to all "harmony" and live happily ever after. (Basically it is the same tactic used by these "Sympathizers" on here fighting for TS and DS. Some people just do not know how to relate to the big picture of same actions for the Justifying of just plain sin. Does not one know that a person is evil and all will die if one does not love our true God. If you claim they love God then how can they do the evil fruits. ) Take the blinders off. They are coming to get "the big Satan" as they refer to our "God planned" country of freedom, in wealth and the peoples way of life as they know it , Have you not heard the prophecy and what is going to happen in America by the SP. and Bible Account.  Talk about ignorance, This is something else. People raised in other countries do not know the inner extent of America and true Blues and their deep rooted sense of Patriotism for this Country. It is us that lost our loved ones for freedom that outsiders only wished they had.  There is not another place or country in this world like it. That is what will bring on the blood bath. Are you all for it??? When my eyes look upon  our beloved flag, I do not see a piece of material, I see blood that has been shed, running in the stripes and people maimed for life while I am intact and for how I have been able to live. That is what I see.  I believe history, prophecy, and the Word of God. I believe all should be equal and not a planned agenda for the take over from to instill evil and false God. I am an American that believes in One God that founded this country and my belief of freedom for all with no prejudice. But the decline is here...and now for all. Bring it on so I can go HOME.

edited to correct some bad english

[tinka]

and btw, another added thought, Is this what I saw with the GC wanting to rub shoulders with false religions, are we to be joiners?? Just what do they believe in this late date and time??? I read something clear different then what I am seeing. Of course then there is "Hope" within.

[mrst53]

I feel building the Mosque so close to Twin Towers site is in Poor taste, by anyone's standards. Do we put a statue of Hitler in the middle of the Holocaust museum. I don't think so. I know, NOT ALL Muslims are evil and  TRUE Islam is  a religion of peace, like all religions, but even they should have more feeling for the victims of 9/11 than to want to build so close to the 9/11 site. What are they THINKING??

[tinka]

It does not surprise me as Muslims worship a false God. They do not believe in the Son of God no way, shape or form, so therefore they are in falsehood and there claims of peace is nothing more then to filtrate to higher agenda. The western civilization means only death to them and delivered. IF you really trace down everything Bibical they put their own curse on theirselves at the Crucifixion when they begged Crucify and let our generations be held responsible...and they were. and what is sad is God's only beginning people did not believe and most are still with the curse of being blinded of truth. They will never be a nation of God's people ever again and can only come to Jesus on Individual basis.

You know when I am in a store and they come in, I immediately head out as One never knows what they are up to or what they are going to do. Yep, I am afraid and the warning is when I see them wear their proud towels that aren't necessary but maybe for the desert in our country soaked in water. Anybody see the young girl on magazine with her nose cut off?? They are Barbaric and the Bible say they will always be wild. Can anyone change that hmmm?? An individual has more hope. Only a proclaimed a brother and sister in proclaimed Christianity will I rub shoulders with, never a Manson, never a serial killer, never a pedophile as that is entirely up to the Holy Spirit and how he deals with it. I will except anything he stores up in Heaven but like Thomas, I gotta have the proof here on this earth. as we become what we sympathize with.. as some people yearn for human acceptance theirselves and except the evil human traits of others. My sympathy is for life loss of Eternity and I or no one can enter into that realm once the line is crossed. We are shown many examples and warned not to be unevenly yoked and shun the appearances of evil so therefore I take heed.

[Emma]

Just a few thoughts Tinka

The Muslim religion was not in existence at the crucifixion (Mohammed lived in the 6th century AD).  

The Koran accepts Jesus as a prophet and even talks of  His return to earth, though He is not recognised as the Son of God.

Where does the Bible unequivocally refer to Muslims as always being wild?

I have no sympathy at all for the extremes of Islam.  However my work involved working with many Muslims as both colleagues and clients, and I know the vast majority of them as good and decent people.

There are parts of the world where Muslims are coming to accept Jesus in quite large numbers, but I will not detail that here.


Having said all that, I can appreciate that the victims and their families of 9/11 are upset at the building of the mosque.

[princessdi]

It is only insensitive when we blame all Muslims for the attacks.  They are no more responsible for the actions of Al Quaida and the Teleban(sp) than SDAs are for David Koresh.  They are not ALL extremist plotting to destroy the US. I also suspect that the ones who are planning this project are the the extremist.  Misdirected blame and/or anger is never a good thing.

I mean SDAs many times really are in the same predicament.  How many times have you heard of someone ready for baptism to join the SDA church who change their minds, because someone tells them we are associated with some extremist offshoot.  As I said int he other thread, we are still in the "cult" section at many bookstores.  You would think we might understand about not making the distinction.

Murcielago, those musicians who do that are answerable to God. However, because I can't see the heart, I lack the the knowledge or authority to make the determination who they might be.  You know, like the wheat and the tares.  We can't tell the difference, mistaking one for the other.....all the time......which is th reasont he Mastoer told the servants not to pull them up, right?   :-)

I am all for inter-faith conferencing and shoulder rubbing. Groups who wall themselves in fall to the ailments that plague any kind of multi-generational incest. In this particular case I believe that it is terribly insensitive to the 9/11 survivors, families of the dead, the City of New York, and to the nation at large. This mosque could be built anywhere else in New York without creating the deep offense that has been inflicted.

Btw, Princess, your thoughts on Sarah Palin accurately reflect my thoughts on "Christian" music performers and evangelists who do it for money, and I have a hard time believing that people actually take them seriously.

[Johann]

While working as a missionary in West Africa it was a great blessing to win Muslims and Pagans to Christ and to baptize them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

[princessdi]

Excellent points, Emma.  In fact, recently we had a ministry within the SDA church focused on just that...the conversion of Muslims.  They even have some countries where the message is broadcast in Farsi.

I'm sorry Tinka, we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.  Sarah Palin is just ignorant and opportunistic, and everytime she opens her mouth it is just a hot mess...Spreading confusion, discord, misinformation where ever she goes.  Tinka, you must have missed that sassy phto shoot she did not long ago.  it got published, but not when she wanted........not sure about her having so much class.....moose burgers and all. LOL!!  Now you know I don't like Condeleeza's politics, but I can respect her and what she has accomplished as an American, African American and a woman.  I can't seem to give that to Sarah.  there is something that hold me back, and that gut feeling isn't usually wrong.

Just a few thoughts Tinka

The Muslim religion was not in existence at the crucifixion (Mohammed lived in the 6th century AD).  

The Koran accepts Jesus as a prophet and even talks of  His return to earth, though He is not recognised as the Son of God.

Where does the Bible unequivocally refer to Muslims as always being wild?

I have no sympathy at all for the extremes of Islam.  However my work involved working with many Muslims as both colleagues and clients, and I know the vast majority of them as good and decent people.

There are parts of the world where Muslims are coming to accept Jesus in quite large numbers, but I will not detail that here.


Having said all that, I can appreciate that the victims and their families of 9/11 are upset at the building of the mosque.

[tinka]

I definitely should have made myself more clear and just took for granted that most would think the decendents of  Abraham Sarah and the Handmaiden. The two brothers that have branched off into the different tribes. the 12 sons of Jacob,

  16:9   And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.  
  16:10   And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.  
  16:11   And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou [art] with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.  
  16:12   And he will be a wild man; his hand [will be] against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.     16:13   And she called the name of the LORD that spake unto her, Thou God seest me: for she said, Have I also here looked after him that seeth me?  
  16:14   Wherefore the well was called Beerlahairoi; behold, [it is] between Kadesh and Bered.  
  16:15   And Hagar bare Abram a son: and Abram called his son's name, which Hagar bare, Ishmael.  
  16:16   And Abram [was] fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram.  
Now read Genesis 49


Chapter 49

  49:1   And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you [that] which shall befall you in the last days.  
  49:2   Gather yourselves together, and hear, ye sons of Jacob; and hearken unto Israel your father.  
  49:3   Reuben, thou [art] my firstborn, my might, and the beginning of my strength, the excellency of dignity, and the excellency of power:  
  49:4   Unstable as water, thou shalt not excel; because thou wentest up to thy father's bed; then defiledst thou [it]: he went up to my couch.  
  49:5   Simeon and Levi [are] brethren; instruments of cruelty [are in] their habitations.  
  49:6   O my soul, come not thou into their secret; unto their assembly, mine honour, be not thou united: for in their anger they slew a man, and in their selfwill they digged down a wall.  
  49:7   Cursed [be] their anger, for [it was] fierce; and their wrath, for it was cruel: I will divide them in Jacob, and scatter them in Israel.  
  49:8   Judah, thou [art he] whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand [shall be] in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee.  
  49:9   Judah [is] a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?  
  49:10   The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him [shall] the gathering of the people [be].  
  49:11   Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:  
  49:12   His eyes [shall be] red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.  
  49:13   Zebulun shall dwell at the haven of the sea; and he [shall be] for an haven of ships; and his border [shall be] unto Zidon.  
  49:14   Issachar [is] a strong ass couching down between two burdens:  
  49:15   And he saw that rest [was] good, and the land that [it was] pleasant; and bowed his shoulder to bear, and became a servant unto tribute.  
  49:16   Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel.  
  49:17   Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.  
  49:18   I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD.  
  49:19   Gad, a troop shall overcome him: but he shall overcome at the last.  
  49:20   Out of Asher his bread [shall be] fat, and he shall yield royal dainties.  
  49:21   Naphtali [is] a hind let loose: he giveth goodly words.  
  49:22   Joseph [is] a fruitful bough, [even] a fruitful bough by a well; [whose] branches run over the wall:  
  49:23   The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot [at him], and hated him:  
  49:24   But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty [God] of Jacob; (from thence [is] the shepherd, the stone of Israel:)  
  49:25   [Even] by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:  
  49:26   The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.  
  49:27   Benjamin shall ravin [as] a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil.  
  49:28   All these [are] the twelve tribes of Israel: and this [is it] that their father spake unto them, and blessed them; every one according to his blessing he blessed them.

[tinka]

Like I said --it is only possible to win a Muslim on a one to one basis. Otherwise you never knew what descendants you are dealing with according to the scripture above or what their agenda might be as they sure are forcing the issued in America as a whole right now. They want Shira law, they want our schools shut down for their holidays, they want what they want and we need not be so lax and sympathetic in their efforts as it is growing. Also if you go back far enough guess who else they will back or turn to in the end as a lot of their stuff coinsides with the Mother church.