Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Pat Williams]

Hmmm... so it seems we all understand that folks are known by their fruits. I, myself think many here sound just like one another and say the same things,, but know they are not the same individual. That's me...

I also seem to recall several quotes from EGW, stating that in heaven and in the world made new, we will only take our characters with us, and that Adam and Eve had that opportunity to develop such, but basicly blew it, and because of the eternal covenant, that is what we have the chance here to develop and that we are all given the grace of God and his mercy to develop, and that through out eternity those who have faith and  represent Christ due to being recreated in His image will all represent him and have His same fruits, and His ways and His thoughts will be theirs, not because they are Him, or are the same person, but all due to Him to the glory of God almighty, and because one person, Jesus Christ enabled them and loved them enough to make that possible and give them that opportunity.

Maybe? Just maybe, folks here should be more concerned about love and fruits, and the methods used here and whether what is done and said is right or wrong according to Christ and his Father, rather than in who a particular individual is, or is not on this earth???

We are not accountable for what others say and do, but we are accountable for what we do and say in reply, and we are accountable for how we treat them, and all, because Although all not all will be saved, Jesus loved and died for each one, and took their sins upon himself and payed the price for them. If we can't identify with why Jesus loved and died for his enemies taking the punishment that we all have earned, than how can we identify ourselves with him? How can we say we are His? How can we say we represent Him in this world, much less expect to represent him elsewhere in all worlds and throughout creation?

I'm just saying... The arguments and claims here are petty to me when considered in the grand scheme and plan of God Almighty and not worth the attention they are being given. To me right and wrong, and truth and lies, and who Jesus Christ is and how He is identified are much more important. Again, that is me..

[Johann]

To me right and wrong, and truth and lies, and who Jesus Christ is and how He is identified are much more important. Again, that is me..

If I take this at face value we are fully in agreement. But to me it seems like your main concern has been to twist and turn whatever is wrong and whatever is a lie to make it appear as if it is the real truth. That, to me, does not seem to be the work of a true Christian. So there are religions are very much different. I happen to be a Seventh-day Adventist Christian who believes in following my Lord Jesus Christ in TRUTH and sincerity, and you and I would be much more in accord with each other if I could trace a desire in your regular writing to head in that direction.

Let's try to approach each other and let the Lord lead in our lives. . .

[Pat Williams]

To me right and wrong, and truth and lies, and who Jesus Christ is and how He is identified are much more important. Again, that is me..

If I take this at face value we are fully in agreement. But to me it seems like your main concern has been to twist and turn whatever is wrong and whatever is a lie to make it appear as if it is the real truth. That, to me, does not seem to be the work of a true Christian. So there are religions are very much different. I happen to be a Seventh-day Adventist Christian who believes in following my Lord Jesus Christ in TRUTH and sincerity, and you and I would be much more in accord with each other if I could trace a desire in your regular writing to head in that direction.

Let's try to approach each other and let the Lord lead in our lives. . .

We can try.. But from my POV where we differ is that you make claims about who you are, while I don't. I don't need you to determine whether I have a true desire, Johann, and I don't care about whether you do determine that I do or not. Nor do I presume to judge your heart and mind in return.That isn't mine to judge unless something escapes and is revealed by your own words and acts. Whether you belong to Jesus and are God's is his to decide, not mine.....  My words and how I treat others and judge them speak for myself and that I can and will be judged by, as will you... So I leave it to others to determine what is Christian and what is not, and whether they think I am a Seventh-day- Adventist Christian or not, by my posts and words, while knowing and accepting that Christ alone truly judges and will be the final decision. As far as truth goes, well that is determined by the facts, not by a crowd and not by empty claims and testimonies about our own self righteousness, or justifications, right?

I get tired of all this and so am going elsewhere to refresh.

laters...

[Bob Pickle]

Just maybe, folks here should be more concerned about love and fruits, and the methods used here and whether what is done and said is right or wrong according to Christ and his Father, rather than in who a particular individual is, or is not on this earth???

Thus, you should have no problem expressing genuine support of admitted pedophile Tommy Shelton's victims rather than attacking them. Expressing support would be fruit and love.

I'm just saying... The arguments and claims here are petty to me when considered in the grand scheme and plan of God Almighty and not worth the attention they are being given. To me right and wrong, and truth and lies, and who Jesus Christ is and how He is identified are much more important. Again, that is me..

Jesus does not condone attempted witness tampering. He doesn't condone Danny Shelton's deceptive cover up of the child molestation allegations against Tommy Shelton. He doesn't condone the insinuated threats made to try to convince the victims to drop charges.

Such things are by no means petty in the grand scheme. After all, eating a mere piece of fruit was a super big deal in Eden. In fact, if a requirement God has given appears petty, then that makes it all the more important, because disobedience in an easy and simple matter is all the more inexcusable and grave.

[Adam]

I have to address something right here and now. I am getting sick of reading this same old line "about the character and testimony of the victims." None of you know the character of the victims. Have you ever met them?

I can testify to the fact that Alex's character is nothing like you claim. He is an outstanding citizen in his community and is truely involved in his church. Don't believe me? Come to where he lives and ask people, if they know Alex Walker. You will hear nothing but good from them.

So quit attacking someones "character" that you know nothing about.

Why don't you attack Tommy's character?  This may sound hateful and frankly I don't care. You all are deluded. Keep defending your admitted child predator. Just remember what the Bible says. -------------------

You know what I pray one day, none of your children are abused. Why? Mostly, because of the hurt that would be caused to them. Secondly, because you fools probably wouldn't believe them.

You all are sick and need Jesus !!!

My prayer is that you find him before it is everlasting to late!

---------- represents what I edited in disgust.

[Nosir Myzing]

I have to address something right here and now. I am getting sick of reading this same old line "about the character and testimony of the victims." None of you know the character of the victims. Have you ever met them?

I can testify to the fact that Alex's character is nothing like you claim. He is an outstanding citizen in his community and is truely involved in his church. Don't believe me? Come to where he lives and ask people, if they know Alex Walker. You will hear nothing but good from them.

So quit attacking someones "character" that you know nothing about.

Why don't you attack Tommy's character?  This may sound hateful and frankly I don't care. You all are deluded. Keep defending your admitted child predator. Just remember what the Bible says. -------------------

You know what I pray one day, none of your children are abused. Why? Mostly, because of the hurt that would be caused to them. Secondly, because you fools probably wouldn't believe them.

You all are sick and need Jesus !!!

My prayer is that you find him before it is everlasting to late!

---------- represents what I edited in disgust.

" I can testify to the fact that Alex's character is nothing like you claim."

What are you referring to amd talking about?

The truth is no one defending 3ABN was attacking Alex or his character, Adam, and no one defending 3abn even mentioned him by name or even accused him. NOT ONCE. Not one was doing so in any post you are replying to here. It was you who came here and brought him up and made his character and case an issue illiciting questions and answers from those you accused on his behalf. He claims you say as you choose, so do you, but it is obvious that you argue and present only what he tells you, as you aren't involved or a witness in his case, and haven't even met those you accuse and condemn and attack on his behalf.. Even here in this current discussion, no one mentioned Alex, but you came flying in to defend him and accuse and find fault with others. It's ridiculous as far as I am concerned. This is a forum against DS and 3ABN, yet here you and Alex are, and claim that attacking 3ABN and DS is not your purpose or agenda for being here.. It's NOT believable, sorry because  Alex approached Bob Pickle according to Bob, and according to Alex he never filed a complaint or report against Tommy Shelton with law enforcement, which he should have done if his purpose was legit. Instead of giving them a report he gave it to Bob Pickle... and claims he didn't even know there was a case against Tommy Shelton until a reporter approached him after Tommy's arrest claiming he was a complaintant.I can quote him about that if you or he want to dispute that,  so what are he and you doing here in a forum and posting against DS abd 3ABN, and attacking those defending them if your issue is Tommy Shelton and child abuse within the Church of God? IMO- IMHO, you and your arguments and protests and accusations about all this,  stink to high heaven!

[ex3abnemployee]

Jamie and Pat, it was a lot more enjoyable around here when you two were gone, so take a hint. No one here is going to take into account anything either of you say, as you have both been exposed as liars. Anonymous liars, but liars nonetheless.

[Alex L. Walker]

Jamie and Pat, it was a lot more enjoyable around here when you two were gone, so take a hint. No one here is going to take into account anything either of you say, as you have both been exposed as liars. Anonymous liars, but liars nonetheless.

By the way Jamie I will post on any forum I so choose. As I said I have one objective and that is this case, so quit trying to tie me in to everything else. That is all I have to say about this anymore. It's your choice to chose to listen or ignore.

[Alex L. Walker]

I have to address something right here and now. I am getting sick of reading this same old line "about the character and testimony of the victims." None of you know the character of the victims. Have you ever met them?

I can testify to the fact that Alex's character is nothing like you claim. He is an outstanding citizen in his community and is truely involved in his church. Don't believe me? Come to where he lives and ask people, if they know Alex Walker. You will hear nothing but good from them.

So quit attacking someones "character" that you know nothing about.

Why don't you attack Tommy's character?  This may sound hateful and frankly I don't care. You all are deluded. Keep defending your admitted child predator. Just remember what the Bible says. -------------------

You know what I pray one day, none of your children are abused. Why? Mostly, because of the hurt that would be caused to them. Secondly, because you fools probably wouldn't believe them.

You all are sick and need Jesus !!!

My prayer is that you find him before it is everlasting to late!

---------- represents what I edited in disgust.

" I can testify to the fact that Alex's character is nothing like you claim."

What are you referring to amd talking about?

The truth is no one defending 3ABN was attacking Alex or his character, Adam, and no one defending 3abn even mentioned him by name or even accused him. NOT ONCE. Not one was doing so in any post you are replying to here. It was you who came here and brought him up and made his character and case an issue illiciting questions and answers from those you accused on his behalf. He claims you say as you choose, so do you, but it is obvious that you argue and present only what he tells you, as you aren't involved or a witness in his case, and haven't even met those you accuse and condemn and attack on his behalf.. Even here in this current discussion, no one mentioned Alex, but you came flying in to defend him and accuse and find fault with others. It's ridiculous as far as I am concerned. This is a forum against DS and 3ABN, yet here you and Alex are, and claim that attacking 3ABN and DS is not your purpose or agenda for being here.. It's NOT believable, sorry because  Alex approached Bob Pickle according to Bob, and according to Alex he never filed a complaint or report against Tommy Shelton with law enforcement, which he should have done if his purpose was legit. Instead of giving them a report he gave it to Bob Pickle... and claims he didn't even know there was a case against Tommy Shelton until a reporter approached him after Tommy's arrest claiming he was a complaintant.I can quote him about that if you or he want to dispute that,  so what are he and you doing here in a forum and posting against DS abd 3ABN, and attacking those defending them if your issue is Tommy Shelton and child abuse within the Church of God? IMO- IMHO, you and your arguments and protests and accusations about all this,  stink to high heaven!

You are a liar. That's all I have to say about that. I have never once posted anything about Danny Shelton or 3ABN. So quit lying. I am not here to attack 3ABN or Danny Shelton nor have I.

This is the only thing that I have posted in regards to Danny Shelton or anyone associated with 3ABN:

By the way Brenda Walsh DOES know who I am. It is also a lie for her to say she has never met me. That's all I'm going to say about that.

You posted that Brenda said this:

Brenda Walsh said "I have never met Alex, nor have I have talked with him, written him, or communicated with him in any way shape or form! What is interesting is how he even knows my name!!"

Brenda is lying here because she does know who I am and yes she has met me.
You also said that Danny said this:

Danny Shelton simply said " I have never talked to Alex" Ask Danny to define never. If he is saying it in the literal sense of the meaning than he too is a liar

As far as the last part of your post; I cannot discuss that. I have that same conversation you apparently have (between Trent and myself) as does my attorneys. I will not discuss that any farther.

Now I am done here. I do not have anything to prove to you anyway.

* The red is my responce to their statements.*

[Bob Pickle]

This is a forum against DS and 3ABN, yet here you and Alex are, and claim that attacking 3ABN and DS is not your purpose or agenda for being here.

Remember, this whole thing started out of a desire to protect 3ABN and the Illinois Conference from liability due to Danny Shelton's cover up of the child molestation allegations against Tommy.

Search through http://www.Save-3ABN.com/ and pinpoint what criticisms exist there against 3ABN in contrast to concerns about Danny's choices. Post what you find, with dates if possible.

Of course, at some point, it became hard not to implicate more than just Danny in wrongdoing, particularly after the board decided to sue Adventist church members in order to shut them up.

[Nosir Myzing]

I have to address something right here and now. I am getting sick of reading this same old line "about the character and testimony of the victims." None of you know the character of the victims. Have you ever met them?

I can testify to the fact that Alex's character is nothing like you claim. He is an outstanding citizen in his community and is truely involved in his church. Don't believe me? Come to where he lives and ask people, if they know Alex Walker. You will hear nothing but good from them.

So quit attacking someones "character" that you know nothing about.

Why don't you attack Tommy's character?  This may sound hateful and frankly I don't care. You all are deluded. Keep defending your admitted child predator. Just remember what the Bible says. -------------------

You know what I pray one day, none of your children are abused. Why? Mostly, because of the hurt that would be caused to them. Secondly, because you fools probably wouldn't believe them.

You all are sick and need Jesus !!!

My prayer is that you find him before it is everlasting to late!

---------- represents what I edited in disgust.

" I can testify to the fact that Alex's character is nothing like you claim."

What are you referring to amd talking about?

The truth is no one defending 3ABN was attacking Alex or his character, Adam, and no one defending 3abn even mentioned him by name or even accused him. NOT ONCE. Not one was doing so in any post you are replying to here. It was you who came here and brought him up and made his character and case an issue illiciting questions and answers from those you accused on his behalf. He claims you say as you choose, so do you, but it is obvious that you argue and present only what he tells you, as you aren't involved or a witness in his case, and haven't even met those you accuse and condemn and attack on his behalf.. Even here in this current discussion, no one mentioned Alex, but you came flying in to defend him and accuse and find fault with others. It's ridiculous as far as I am concerned. This is a forum against DS and 3ABN, yet here you and Alex are, and claim that attacking 3ABN and DS is not your purpose or agenda for being here.. It's NOT believable, sorry because  Alex approached Bob Pickle according to Bob, and according to Alex he never filed a complaint or report against Tommy Shelton with law enforcement, which he should have done if his purpose was legit. Instead of giving them a report he gave it to Bob Pickle... and claims he didn't even know there was a case against Tommy Shelton until a reporter approached him after Tommy's arrest claiming he was a complaintant.I can quote him about that if you or he want to dispute that,  so what are he and you doing here in a forum and posting against DS abd 3ABN, and attacking those defending them if your issue is Tommy Shelton and child abuse within the Church of God? IMO- IMHO, you and your arguments and protests and accusations about all this,  stink to high heaven!

You are a liar. That's all I have to say about that. I have never once posted anything about Danny Shelton or 3ABN. So quit lying. I am not here to attack 3ABN or Danny Shelton nor have I.

This is the only thing that I have posted in regards to Danny Shelton or anyone associated with 3ABN:

By the way Brenda Walsh DOES know who I am. It is also a lie for her to say she has never met me. That's all I'm going to say about that.

You posted that Brenda said this:

Brenda Walsh said "I have never met Alex, nor have I have talked with him, written him, or communicated with him in any way shape or form! What is interesting is how he even knows my name!!"

Brenda is lying here because she does know who I am and yes she has met me.
You also said that Danny said this:

Danny Shelton simply said " I have never talked to Alex" Ask Danny to define never. If he is saying it in the literal sense of the meaning than he too is a liar

As far as the last part of your post; I cannot discuss that. I have that same conversation you apparently have (between Trent and myself) as does my attorneys. I will not discuss that any farther.

Now I am done here. I do not have anything to prove to you anyway.

* The red is my responce to their statements.*

Why don't we consider both Danny Shelton and Brenda Walshes answers  in light of the questions actually asked of them , those being in regard to their contacting or attempting to contact you and intimidate and or physically threaten you and try to  force you to change your testimony which is witness tampering? Why don't we consider their answers in light of the questions asked of them in regards to Bob Pickle's claims that they were trying to get you to drop charges? Why don't we consider them in light of your roommate and friend's personal claims that he could testify that they did contact you and that it is documented when they never even attempted to do so? Why don't we consider that neither Pickle nor Adam has a reason or call to make any such claims against them unless you told them that? And why don't all here, as well as myself look at the arguments you just made above and consider whats said, and whether they admit it  or or not acknowledge that your answers are evasive and not responsive to the allegations against others made on your behalf? Accusations most likely instigated and caused by yourself and your words to them? Why don't we all acknowledge that you can say, i don't always agree with Adam, and have, but have so far never posted any disagreement, and although you claim you aren't with Pickle, that you sought him out a year before the Prosecutor and State of VA filed charges against TS, and claim you NEVER did so and only talk to him through attorneys, yet here you are, in a forum owned by Pickle and parked on his server and dedicated to accusing 3ABN and finding them guilty, but claim you are just here innocently and didn't know that?

As I said, it stinks.

You and your buddy do not need to be here to seek justice, and indeed will never find it here, nor will you ever be taken seriously by one single 3ABN supporter while you are here aligned with and supporting 3ABN's enemies. You are known by your friends and what side you stand on.




ADMIN HAT ON

Your continued "cc: other forum" references are not necessary, nor are they welcome here, as any who have been reading here long enough know you are referencing Cindy and Steffan's smut site.  And for our new members who don't know about the smut site, they don't need to find it here.

ADMIN HAT OFF

[ex3abnemployee]

Or, you could simply [censored] out.

[ex3abnemployee]

BTW Jamie, Tommy plead guilty 

[princessdi]

OK?!!  I am just not understanding why come they don't get that!

[Alex L. Walker]

I have to address something right here and now. I am getting sick of reading this same old line "about the character and testimony of the victims." None of you know the character of the victims. Have you ever met them?

I can testify to the fact that Alex's character is nothing like you claim. He is an outstanding citizen in his community and is truely involved in his church. Don't believe me? Come to where he lives and ask people, if they know Alex Walker. You will hear nothing but good from them.

So quit attacking someones "character" that you know nothing about.

Why don't you attack Tommy's character?  This may sound hateful and frankly I don't care. You all are deluded. Keep defending your admitted child predator. Just remember what the Bible says. -------------------

You know what I pray one day, none of your children are abused. Why? Mostly, because of the hurt that would be caused to them. Secondly, because you fools probably wouldn't believe them.

You all are sick and need Jesus !!!

My prayer is that you find him before it is everlasting to late!

---------- represents what I edited in disgust.

" I can testify to the fact that Alex's character is nothing like you claim."

What are you referring to amd talking about?

The truth is no one defending 3ABN was attacking Alex or his character, Adam, and no one defending 3abn even mentioned him by name or even accused him. NOT ONCE. Not one was doing so in any post you are replying to here. It was you who came here and brought him up and made his character and case an issue illiciting questions and answers from those you accused on his behalf. He claims you say as you choose, so do you, but it is obvious that you argue and present only what he tells you, as you aren't involved or a witness in his case, and haven't even met those you accuse and condemn and attack on his behalf.. Even here in this current discussion, no one mentioned Alex, but you came flying in to defend him and accuse and find fault with others. It's ridiculous as far as I am concerned. This is a forum against DS and 3ABN, yet here you and Alex are, and claim that attacking 3ABN and DS is not your purpose or agenda for being here.. It's NOT believable, sorry because  Alex approached Bob Pickle according to Bob, and according to Alex he never filed a complaint or report against Tommy Shelton with law enforcement, which he should have done if his purpose was legit. Instead of giving them a report he gave it to Bob Pickle... and claims he didn't even know there was a case against Tommy Shelton until a reporter approached him after Tommy's arrest claiming he was a complaintant.I can quote him about that if you or he want to dispute that,  so what are he and you doing here in a forum and posting against DS abd 3ABN, and attacking those defending them if your issue is Tommy Shelton and child abuse within the Church of God? IMO- IMHO, you and your arguments and protests and accusations about all this,  stink to high heaven!

You are a liar. That's all I have to say about that. I have never once posted anything about Danny Shelton or 3ABN. So quit lying. I am not here to attack 3ABN or Danny Shelton nor have I.

This is the only thing that I have posted in regards to Danny Shelton or anyone associated with 3ABN:

By the way Brenda Walsh DOES know who I am. It is also a lie for her to say she has never met me. That's all I'm going to say about that.

You posted that Brenda said this:

Brenda Walsh said "I have never met Alex, nor have I have talked with him, written him, or communicated with him in any way shape or form! What is interesting is how he even knows my name!!"

Brenda is lying here because she does know who I am and yes she has met me.
You also said that Danny said this:

Danny Shelton simply said " I have never talked to Alex" Ask Danny to define never. If he is saying it in the literal sense of the meaning than he too is a liar

As far as the last part of your post; I cannot discuss that. I have that same conversation you apparently have (between Trent and myself) as does my attorneys. I will not discuss that any farther.

Now I am done here. I do not have anything to prove to you anyway.

* The red is my responce to their statements.*

Why don't we consider both Danny Shelton and Brenda Walshes answers  in light of the questions actually asked of them , those being in regard to their contacting or attempting to contact you and intimidate and or physically threaten you and try to  force you to change your testimony which is witness tampering? Why don't we consider their answers in light of the questions asked of them in regards to Bob Pickle's claims that they were trying to get you to drop charges? Why don't we consider them in light of your roommate and friend's personal claims that he could testify that they did contact you and that it is documented when they never even attempted to do so? Why don't we consider that neither Pickle nor Adam has a reason or call to make any such claims against them unless you told them that? And why don't all here, as well as myself look at the arguments you just made above and consider whats said, and whether they admit it  or or not acknowledge that your answers are evasive and not responsive to the allegations against others made on your behalf? Accusations most likely instigated and caused by yourself and your words to them? Why don't we all acknowledge that you can say, i don't always agree with Adam, and have, but have so far never posted any disagreement, and although you claim you aren't with Pickle, that you sought him out a year before the Prosecutor and State of VA filed charges against TS, and claim you NEVER did so and only talk to him through attorneys, yet here you are, in a forum owned by Pickle and parked on his server and dedicated to accusing 3ABN and finding them guilty, but claim you are just here innocently and didn't know that?

As I said, it stinks.

You and your buddy do not need to be here to seek justice, and indeed will never find it here, nor will you ever be taken seriously by one single 3ABN supporter while you are here aligned with and supporting 3ABN's enemies. You are known by your friends and what side you stand on.




cc: other forum

Jamie said:

Why don't we consider both Danny Shelton and Brenda Walshes answers  in light of the questions actually asked of them , those being in regard to their contacting or attempting to contact you and intimidate and or physically threaten you and try to  force you to change your testimony which is witness tampering?




As I stated before obviously Brenda does not tell the truth, so how can she be trustworthy? That was a bold face lie that she has never met me and that she is surprised I know her name. Her responce speaks for itself, Jamie. As far as Danny saying he has NEVER communicated with me that is a lie as well. I am not going to comment on any form of witness tampering that may or may not occurred. Sorry.

Jamie said:

Why don't we all acknowledge that you can say, i don't always agree with Adam.


I have made it clear that I do not agree with all of his analysis. You chose to ignore that.



Jamie said:

and although you claim you aren't with Pickle, that you sought him out a year before the Prosecutor and State of VA filed charges against TS, and claim you NEVER did so and only talk to him through attorneys, yet here you are, in a forum owned by Pickle and parked on his server and dedicated to accusing 3ABN and finding them guilty, but claim you are just here innocently and didn't know that?



Again I'm not going to discuss this with you. I have made it clear that I am not in any shape or form involved in this case against 3ABN or Danny. Quit lying. The only reason I'm on here is because of your slanderous acts that I was made aware of. That is the only reason I'm here. Again I'm not going to discuss anymore with you as I have nothing to prove to you. Get over it.

Jamie said:

You and your buddy do not need to be here to seek justice, and indeed will never find it here, nor will you ever be taken seriously by one single 3ABN supporter while you are here aligned with and supporting 3ABN's enemies. You are known by your friends and what side you stand on.



Your right I am not on here to seek justice as I think it's already being done. Quit playing me as ignorant. Do you really think I care what 3ABN supporters think? Absolutely not. I have no ties to 3ABN nor do I care about them. Get that through your head.