Learn to prove all things, or you are gonna be a hurting unit.
When I read your story the other day I started realizing where you come from. You must have gone through some terrible times in your own experience. I feel sorry for you and pray that you might be able to solve the great hurts you have suffered.
I pray God may help you not projecting your own hurts into a preconceived pattern where you reason that certain people must be acting the way they do because they seem to you to have certain similarities to how your former husband treated you.
Learn to prove all things to yourself, rather than keeping a fight running within your own preconceived pattern.
There is no need to prove anything to anyone else than yourself and your God. Keep on fighting, if you are convinced beyond a reasonable doubt. That is what I am doing. As I stated elsewhere I have no way of proving to you or your friends what people have told me in confidence and then later change it completely to please certain people and thereby keep their jobs.
Yes, I have gone through terrible things, but that is key (past tense). Don't feel bad for me, Johann. I don't hurt. I have a Lord who is the great physician, he is always with me, and he fixes all and heals me, he always holds my hand and helps me move ahead, and learn. he even slaps me upside my head and knocks me off my high horse when I need it(with my permission) because we both know I need that sometimes, Why? He loves me. It's all good. I am not saying this just to combat you. I wrote the following in Nov 2001, ok? see the bold text. God is good.
Nov 5 2001, 7:13 p
From: cynthia...@email.com (Cindy)
Date: 5 Nov 2001 15:13:24 -0800
Local: Mon, Nov 5 2001 7:13 pm
Subject: Re: How do you personally know God exists?
"Paul... wrote in message <news:mTJE7.257077$Xz1.56064629@news1.rdc1.md.home.com>...
> I just got through reading a post that said this NG was becoming just a
> bunch of individual messages posted over a period of time. Unfortunately I
> think there is some truth in that, so here goes. How do you personally know
> God is who you think He is. The terrorists go to there deaths with smiles
> on their faces because they believe that they are about to enter heaven. We
> say, nonsense, but how does that make us right and them wrong. What, in
> essence, seperates our beliefs and makes them "true" and theirs false?
> Paul
Paul :-)
How do I personally know God is who I think he is? I have faith. :-)
Faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things
unseen.
We do not physically see God, but we see his works, so we know he is there.
This is kind of like the wind, we don't see it either, but we witness it's
effects, and so we know it exists.
God tells us in his word, to search the scriptures because they testify of
him.
I take this to mean that his words are truth about him, and that the word
"testify" implies that there is an accusation which is being disproved. When
I see the words of God being confirmed in my life, and in those I know, I
see this as proof, that the God I believe in exists.
When my little sister was 3 or 4 years old, she came running into the house
one day, shouting out in her excitement "Jesus saved me!" No one knew what
she was talking about, but when she calmed down and could explain, it turned
out that she had been playing outside, and had become so entangled in
blackberry bushes that she couldn't move, she was very scared, and prayed
"Jesus save me" and then he did. When asked how he
had saved her she said. " I was stuck, then I asked Jesus to save me, and
then I was just outside of the stickers." We questioned her, but she didn't
suddenly discover a way to untangle herself. According to her she was in
them, she prayed, the next moment she was out.
" Suffer the little children to come unto me, for such is the kingdom of
God"
When I had my 30th birthday. We spent it camping at a remote pass in the
Cascade Mts. I awoke in the middle of the night, and when I stepped outside
the tent I was overwhelmed. I stood there frozen. The stars were huge. I
felt like if I could just reach out, I could touch them. I was in true awe
of my Creator, never had I seen such beauty, or realized how insignificant I
was in the vastness of his creation, and yet as I stood there overwhelmed
and awed, I realized how truly God does love us. I was a mere speck, less
actually, in the the history, and scope of his creation. And yet, if it was
only me, he still would have come and died for me.. to save me... In that
moment I knew my God, better than I ever had before. That memory stays with
me. It doesn't fade...
" Be still, and know that I am God."
My younger son ___ at age one, got a cold, which turned into pneumonia,
although they
had a problem diagnosing it at first. His fever skyrocketed, and nothing
would bring it down. They flew him from our hospital, to _____ in a
helicopter, he was not just having fever seizures, he was having "grand mal
seizures" non stop.
He almost died. My husband, who refused to pray by himself, asked for me to
pray, as God would listen to me. ___ condition was so serious, they
would not allow us to fly with him, we drove the two hours to the hospital,
with me praying non stop, and my husband echoing my words.
When we got there, we found out, _____ was no longer having seizures, but
he was paralyzed, in half his body. During the next couple of days, _____
began to move again, as we continued to pray. His Doctors said because of
his seizures, he would be on phenobarbital, all of his life,as he was most
likely epileptic.
Five days later, we took a drunken little baby home from the hospital.
His first steps, were like they never happened, his words were gone. He
would sit, and weave from side to side, as if intoxicated, he looked at us
out of bleary eyes, and had little comprehension.
It broke my heart.
I gave my baby to the Lord. I asked him
to help him, as I could not. The Lord answered my prayer. :-)
I realized that he did not need the medication, and I gradually weaned him
off. The Doctors
always told me that I was wrong, and recommended he be back on the medicine,
but God's words, proved to be truer. My son is now 18. He has
never had another seizure. He is doing well in school, and active in sports. He runs faster and jups higher and sours above his friends.
He is truly one of God's children. His teachers, and friends tell me, he is
like a magnet. He attracts
others, he captures them with his smile. He has a gentle soul, and people
respond in the same manner.
He has taught me much, with his quiet faith. I
remember one day, when it was just he and I. I was driving along the
highway, and feeling rather bored.
____ put on my sunglasses, and sat there in silence, for about 15
min. Then he said "wearing these sunglasses is sort of like seeing how the
world was when God first created it." He handed them to me, and I put them
on.
Suddenly the world was more vibrant, more alive, more perfect. We continued
the rest of our drive, in animated discussion of what it would be like when
the Lord remade this world.
" Bring up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not
depart from it."
Then there is the story of my older son J______, and I. He was 14,
at the time. I was a bit older 
We went
hiking on a sabbath afternoon, leaving ____ behind because of a wrenched
knee. We took our dog Tana with us, a pitbull rotwieler mix, she was an
overenthusiastic 9 month old puppy at the time.
It was a bright and sunny day, the kind you often get in early
February before it freezes again. We dressed in Levi's and sweatshirts
accordingly. We were planning to hike a couple of miles,through the woods,
travel down a trail to the beach, and then back along the beach a couple of
miles to the main road, and then back the 1/2 mile to our house. Everything
went according to
plan, until we started to hike along the beach, the tide was up, and we were
trying to walk on rocks that were not large enough to step on, or small
enough for us to walk over easily, we were both twisting our ankles, so we
decided to climb the cliffs along the beach, and take a shortcut through the
woods to home. We were trying to hurry, because it was starting to get dark,
and it was getting cold.
We climbed the cliffs at a spot where the slope wasn't very steep. Then we
set off down a road which had been barricaded before, but had accidentally
been left unblocked. It was a old logging road in a state park. one which
soon turned into a clear trail.
It steadily headed toward our house, and I had no worries, because we were
traveling in woods that had been my backyard since a child. It has become a
joke in my family that I have no sense of direction when in a car. If I am
not driving, I will not easily find my way back. However, when I am on foot
I have an unerring sense of direction, and have always found my way home.
Except for this day.
Darkness fell quickly, and the trail dwindled down to
nothing. When I realized we were no longer on a trail, I told _______ we had
better retrace our steps, and walk home, on the main road. We tried to do so
but I couldn't find
the trail. Five minutes later, with only trees, and brush surrounding us, I
began to feel panicked, because for the first time in my life, I was truly
lost. It was getting so dark I could barely make out the tree's around
us. ___ asked me " Are we lost Mom?" I heard the fear in his voice, and so I replied
calmly " Of course not. It is just hard to see right now. If we pray, God
will show us the way." I had total faith as we prayed together, that we
would instantly be shown the way out.
Ten minutes or so later, we had still not reached the road, and in fact the
brush
had grown much thicker. I began to get angry, and silently berate God,
because I didn't want my son to hear. " Why aren't you helping? I know you
don't
always answer prayers, in the way we expect, but my son believes you are
showing us the way out, I'm trying to build his faith here, so could you
please
help me out here?
Please guide us!" ( how foolish was I?) These kind of prayers
continued for a couple of hours, as we made our way through the woods. I
steadily talked calmly to J_____, but inside being very angry, and silently
letting God know, exactly what I thought, I continued to ask him for help,
but did not believe he would help us. (for what ever reason he had, that I
didn't know about.) I tried to have faith, but my anger and fear were
interfering.
Some may wonder why we did not stay put, till someone found us. I didn't
know that my husband was searching for us, and that the park ranger had
joined him, if we had stayed put, at the spot where we prayed, we probably
would have been found right away, as we later found out they had searched at
the beginning of all the roads and trails leading off from the parking lot
first. However I had my own ideas about what God was trying to tell me,
based on my own opinion. So for what I considered good reasons, I set off
boldly in the wrong direction.
In the steadily denser woods and underbrush we decided on a plan. Actually
I decided,vand explained it to ____. ( We lived on an island at the time,and although
it was quite long, it was only 21/2 miles wide at it's widest point. So I knew if we kept going in the same direction, we would eventually come out of the woods.) " Do you
see how occasionally we can see the stars?" I pointed overhead, to a spot
where the tree's didn't block out our view of the sky. He said "yes" " well
look in front of you, do you see that big tree against the outline of the
sky? I turned him physically in the direction that I wanted him to look,
because on our level, we couldn't see our hand in front of our face.
"yes" "well do you see that star right above it?" There was much discussion
until we agreed we were looking at the same star. "We will follow that star,
so we know we are going in the same direction, all the time. Every time we
come to an overhead clearing we will line up a tree in that direction, and
thats the way we'll go, when we reach that tree we will look again"
(please note that I am now following my plan, and not worrying about what
God may have to say)
We followed my plan. The underbrush became so dense we couldn't force our
way through, so I reached in front of me to feel if there was anything that
might impale me, then I threw my body down to break through any obstacles in
the direction we were going. _____ followed my trail for a while, then he
said "Mom? I'm getting mad." I said " I know.. it's ok" He said " No, you
don't understand, I'M REALLY GETTING MAD!" I stopped my trailbreaking
efforts. I heard him start to cry. I reached out and hugged him, and we
clung to each other for awhile. I kept my tears to myself as he sobbed,
because I didn't want to hurt his faith. I wanted to appear strong, and
confident. :-s I prayed aloud for him, So that
he wouldn't be afraid, and so he would be safe. (I did not pray for myself
however. Now I was even angrier at God, because my son was upset. I
believed God was at fault for not helping, and I told him so.)
_______ calmed down, and insisted on helping to break the
trail. I protested. He ran forward and threw his body down to break through.
I immediately ran past him and did the same. We continued like this for what
seemed like hours??? My older son is alot like me. :-) Tana thought this a
great game, and kept jumping on us when we did this, and refused to calm
down. She was a huge puppy.
At one point, as we broke our way through, thick branches, we came to
realize they were not branches at all, but were instead the roots of a
enormous fallen tree. Feeling our way along, we made our way to the trunk. I
am 5'5". The trunk was about my height. It was too long to go around, and we
couldn't get under it. So we climbed up on it. We heard Tana frantically
trying to follow us, but she couldn't find a way. So I climbed back down,
and lifted her up to ____, as he pulled her up from above. After climbing
back up,I tried to
lower her on the other side but ended up dropping her. ______ and I stood
there looking up trying to locate our star and decide which direction to go
in.
Suddenly we heard a growl, and Tana growling back. ____ asked me what it
was, I replied that I didn't know. We both began to call Tana, but she
wouldn't come. She and whatever else was out there began to fight. I was
afraid for her, and continued to call her, but the fight continued. So
____ and I just stood there listening, praying,but not able to see. Then there was
silence. After a moment we heard the sounds of one animal moving around in
the bushes... The sounds got closer. I tentively called "Tana"? and was
rewarded with the sounds of her trying to jump up to us, and whimpering when
she couldn't.
We eventually came to an area that we could not break through, and we were
both exhausted. I told J______ "the worst case scenario here, is that we are
just stuck here till morning. When it gets light we will be able to see,
and we'll find our way out. Lets just try to get some sleep till then." So
we backtracked about 10 feet, and cleared a big enough area that we could
lay down. We broke off branches and leaves to be a buffer between us and the
cold ground. We layed down, and cuddled up to each other, and ______
promptly fell asleep. I did not. It was bitterly cold, and I couldn't stop
shivering. I prayed once again, telling God that I knew that if he could
send Elijah food in the wilderness, then he could send us some blankets, and
since he hadn't seen fit to lead us out, could he send us the blankets
please... and some time later "Could you at least send us the illusion of
some blankets?" Tana got up and I heard her going to the bathroom. She must
have been uphill from me because moments later I was wet. This time I talked
to God out loud " Great! Is that your answer then? As if things aren't bad
enough, now the dog pees on me?" (LOL What a miserable foolish, pitiful
woman I was
being. I can laugh about it now, but at the time I was just miserable, and
didn't see my foolishness.)
Once a helicopter flew overhead, we had heard several through the night, but
as we lived near a navy base, this was not unusual. However this one was
very low, and it was using lights aimed down into the tree's. I jumped up,
and began to wave my arms frantically, but the light, and the sound, faded
off into the distance.
Another time, Tana got up, from where she was laying, and began to bark. At
first I heard nothing, but then I heard a voice calling way off in the
distance, and another voice responding, I could make out the tones, but not
the words. Realizing If I could hear them, maybe they could hear me. I got
up again and started shouting, ______ woke up and asked what I was doing. I
told him, but he said he heard nothing, and went back to sleep. BTW Never
having tried to yell things at the top of my lungs before, I had never
realized that the loudest word you can yell, is "Hello". I didn't hear the
yelling anymore so eventually I layed back down.
Some time later.. I heard voices yelling again. I again got up. I yelled
Hello, they responded with Hello. We continued doing this as they gradually
got closer. Soon they were close enough, that I heard them yell. "Cindy?" I
yelled back " yes!" and I started crying in relief. ______ got up and came
over to hug me, and then said " I'm sorry Mom, but you stink." And stood
back from me. We both started laughing together. The men yelling, got close
enough to tell me that they were from search and rescue, and that the ranger
and my husband had called them. The dogs with them made it through to Johnny
and I. The men told us to hold on, as they were going to have to cut their
way through to us. By the time they got to us with their chainsaws, it was
the break of dawn, and
we were beginning to be able to see around us.
They led us out of the woods, to their bus, we weren't that far from the
road. They were prepared to treat us for exposure, and injuries. I had
bruises everywhere. I was covered in scrapes and scratches, from head to
foot, but I had no serious injuries. ______ had no bruises, and only one
tiny scratch. Although I had been bone chillingly cold, neither of us was
suffering from exposure.
It wasn't until _____ answered one of our rescuers, who was asking about
how uncomfortable and cold the night had been, that I realized how foolish I
had been. _____ said " I was actually comfortable, and warm. I slept good.
I felt just like I was at home in my bed, under my covers." For a moment I
was stunned, as I realized what had happened, and how, and why. Then remorse
hit me " I am so sorry Lord..... thank you! thank you for watching out for
my son."
A couple of side notes:
The helicopter was a heat seeking helicopter, one of two, they searched for
us until a lack of fuel forced them to stop, and return to base. There were
also all terrain vehicles traveling up and down the beach, and boats in the
water.
Later, when the Rangers followed ______ and my trail, they told us about
two times when we had avoided disaster. Once we were a foot away from the
edge of the cliff, when suddenly we had turned at a right angle and gone off
in another direction, although our trail, had been basically moving in the
same direction up till then. The other was when we had reached the fallen
tree, it was a miracle that we hadn't fallen into the hole left by the roots
being ripped out of the ground, and buried. All I can say, is "praise God!" I have no
other explanation.
Psa 37:8 Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise
to do evil.
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil
speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
[the LORD seeth] not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward
appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our]
sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
I was married to an unbeliever, one who turned into both a alcoholic and a
drug addict. I thought love conquered all, and that I could save him, and
help him know the Lord. God says " Be ye not unequally yoked" I learned why.
You can not
always lead someone to Christ, and they make your relationship with the Lord
more difficult, as they are a constant pull away from the lord. I did not
believe in divorce, so I stayed with him for 18 years. It was not all
negative, but it was a nightmare when he was on a binge... He was like
someone
posessed, and I turned into a person, I did not like.
During one such binge,toward the end. I was working two jobs trying to keep
our heads above water, My husband went through our savings, spent his whole
paycheck, and returned to the house to get money from me. I refused. He
literally ripped my purse from me, took all the money I had, and stormed out
of the house to dissapear. Leaving me with two children to feed, and no
food, or money to get either groceries, or pay the bills.
I was at my wits end, I did not know what to do. I told God that. I told
him I didn't even know what to ask for, and I begged him to help us as he
saw fit, since he knew better than me. I asked him to take charge, as i was
not able to.
The next morning was sabbath, I did not go to church, but as I was studying
and
praying. I looked over at the shelf, and noticed a reference book that I
hadn't
used in awhile. I got it. When I opened it, I found a hundred dollar
bill. Some might say that I had put it there myself, and forgot. I know I
did not.
"Ask, and ye shall receive"
Although I didn't know it at the time, my Mother was also praying for me,
she supposedly didn't know what I was going through, she lived in another
state, and I
didn't tell her. A couple of days later she told me that she had prayed
that God would start closing doors in front of me, as a I was not able to
choose, which way to go. I thought this rather highhanded of her, and of
God, and resented it at the time, because that was what began to happen to
me. :-o
I wanted to go this way, the lord led me that way. way, I thought I should
do "this", the lord showed me "that" " I thought I knew his words, he showed
me other words Eventually there was no place to go,
as I was face to face with God, and all I could say was, " Ok, not my will,
yours." I am opinionated, and stubborn, but not stupid. I realized that my
prayers, and my mother's were actually the same, and God was answering them.
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my
ways, saith the LORD.
I left my husband. He moved out soon after, and disapeared. We lived in a
little tiny trailer, that my son ______called "the bomb shelter" I took on
another job, in addition to my others. People ask me how I did it, I can
only say "I didn't, the Lord did" I somehow was not tired, and could do the
things that had to be done, as I worked to pay off the debts I inherited
from my missing husband, and to provide for my children. Once when I had to
make a choice between paying the rent, or buying Groceries and paying part
of the rent. I prayed about it, and then paid my rent. The next day, when
___ and I arrived home, we found a huge box, on the front porch, which
had been left by UPS. There was no return address. When we took it into the
house, we found it was full of non perishable food. So much, that I could
barely fit it in my cabinets. I found out by accident months later that it
had been sent by my sister, she had read between my words to her on the
phone, and been impressed to do so. She had sent it anonymously, because she
did not think I would have accepted her help otherwise.
She also sent money, anonymously, a couple of times, when I needed it the
most, although I had not talked to her, she said she somehow knew.
I lived like this for about six months, and then I found out that My husband
was living with another woman, since his last words to me were that he was
off to prove himself to me, because he knew what was important now, and he
really loved me,I had been thinking, and praying that he was off finding
himself, and trying to make things right. It was all I could do to get
through the next couple of weeks, daily I felt worse. All of the bills from
our old address were suddenly added to my new bills, as he had not payed
them, and I was easy to find, and he was not. I couldn't do it. I hit rock
bottom. I finally swallowed my pride, and called my Mom, and told her I
needed help. This is the moment I was talking about when I said that I was
suddenly face to face with God. I had no more choices.
She responded with " I'm coming to get you guys, I don't know how, but I'll
let you know when I call back tomorrow"
She did come to get me and my son's. And that is a story all by itself,
as we moved many states away, through the mountains, in the winter... We
lived with her for a year, while we got on our feet again.
The lord has brought me to a place that I am happy; When I left ______
State, I stepped out in faith, I asked the Lord to lead me, and I have seen
nothing but good come from that request.
The day after I arrived in my new state, I had not one job, but two, I
worked both for awhile till my Mom pointed out that it wasn't necessary
anymore.
One night as I prayed, I asked the Lord to take away my pain, as I couldn't
bear it anymore. Every time I thought of my husband, it was a literal ache, I
felt like I was literally being stabbed, and it was all I could do not to
double over with the physical pain. It was hard to take a breath. The next
morning when I awoke, the first thought I had was that I forgave my husband.
The anger and the bitterness were gone. I was ecstatic. I felt like you do
on a beautiful spring morning, when the sun is shining, and the birds are
singing, Yet it was the dead of winter. I was healed! The pain, and the
feelings of inadequacy, and betrayel, and rejection were gone. I had said
the words, but did not really understand them until then. In truly forgiving
John, I was able to be truly healed and to stop hurting. I love him still,
but I am not in love with him anymore. I pray for him, but his memories
cause me no more pain, nor any tears.
Jer 17:14 Heal me, O LORD, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be
saved: for thou [art] my praise.
A friend called to tell me of a place for rent, that she believed to be
perfect for me. We went to look at it during my lunchbreak. It was perfect.
It is a huge Brick warehouse type building, with a carved wooden front door.
It has a spiral staircase, 3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, a jaccuzi, a study, a
pole barn. etc. It also was being rented for less than any other place I had
looked at. I looked at it, and fell in love. My future landlords looked at
me, and without asking for one reference told me it was mine.
I now live in a tiny town. While moving in, an older man came over, and
offered me the use of his dolly as he said it looked like we needed it. He
dropped it off, said he was going to the city, but we could just leave it on
his backsteps when we were done with it, and gave us directions to his
house.
My car needed new brakes, but with all the overtime I was working I could
not get it to the shop, across the street. The man who owns the bar three
doors down from me came to my door, and said I heard you needed your brakes
fixed. He introduced me to the son of the owner of the shop, who told me he
had called his Dad, and that he would be there two hours early the next day,
to look at my car. It cost me less than half of what I'd expected.
The man who own the tiny store, and bakery, two doors away, gave me a pie
for my children, and welcomed me to the neighborhood.
The tragedy of Sept 11th hit. I was in shock, and then angry, and outraged,
and then heartbroken, how could our country, and our citizens be attacked
like this. How could anyone justify death as an ends to a means? It made me
feel very vulnerable, and confused. Thank God that I have been led to the
place and Job I have now. Including our manager there are only 9 employees
where I work now, some part time. On Sept 12th our boss asked us to join
hands and pray together. we did so, and it was great. We do not belong to
the same churches, nor agree on everything, but we accept each other and we
are one otherwise. We prayed for ourselves, our leaders, for the terrorists,
those who back them, and for the world.
Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am
I in the midst of them.
I am truly blessed in the place I work, the place I live and in my life. I
can't help but know the God I believe in exists. If not for him. I would not
exist.
"All things work together for them who love the lord"
I think I have written you a book. LOL there is more I could write, but I
must stop somewhere. How do I personally know who God is? I can not
understand, how others do not personally know who he is.
In his infinite love,
Cindy
Johann, You mean well, I hope, but don't you ever, ever, suggest or say again that " I feel sorry for you and pray that you might be able to solve the great hurts you have suffered." Don't ever say:"I pray God may help you not projecting your own hurts into a preconceived pattern where you reason that certain people must be acting the way they do because they seem to you to have certain similarities to how your former husband treated you."
Your prayers there aren't needed, they have already been answered, long before we knew one another..
Take this to your own heart
"Learn to prove all things to yourself, rather than keeping a fight running within your own preconceived pattern." and don't judge me by them, plz.
I am less than perfect, and can solve nothing. But I don't need to, my Lord is all powerful and he solves and heals all, and He continually teaches us. MOVE ON. I have. God is good.
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Topic: BREAKING NEWS -- Plea agreement reached in Tommy Shelton Case (Read 95803 times)
