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[Adam]

Yes, I agree.  I do see your point, I guess my question was if the victim could ask the prosecutor, and it seems we agree on that point.  

I did find this, and as you stated the victim does have a voice, but not a veto in the matter.

http://www.ojp.gov/ovc/publications/bulletins/legalseries/bulletin7/3.html

Excellent statement of the issues.  I encourage you-all to click on the URL and read the document.

I believe that (statement) explains it pretty well, Gregory. Again, thank you for the discussion.  As you said earlier,it shows that people can disagree, in a polite civil manner, and eventually find common ground as I believe we did here.

[Gregory]

ST, we were probabaly close all along.  Differences may have been more in communication than in substance.  I do not always communicate clearly and I sometimes do not correctly understand what someone else has said.


GM

[Adam]

By the way, why wouldn't Tommy accept this deal, his name is already smeared, and his reputation is way beyond repair. It's a sad fact that 63 years of this man's life was wasted on what? Seriously, touching boys, and doing lude acts of the devil, is not an accomplishment to be proud of. Sorry, but true.

By the way his wife should be ashamed so should the whole Shelton family.

[Adam]

 





Re: Tommy Shelton
by proffaberf451 » Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:43 pm UTC

There are numerous options here. What most don't know is what the actual conversations are that are occurring between the legal teams for both sides. It is interesting that Duane Clem speaks with such a voice of certainty, remembering that he isn't involved in this case other then at the level he has self-injected into it. How does he have the immediate inside track to information such as a plea agreement? He has probably become GAJ/RJP's right hand henchman and we know that this case is only taking place because GAJ/RJP have been working hard for years to convince, cajole, maybe even pay individuals (the money probably coming from the so-called doctor from Norway) to "come forward" and make accusations against Tommy that would lead a prosecutor to file charges.

IF the plea agreement is as presented by these individuals not a part of this case, it is interesting that no one has mentioned that this keeps the "victims" off the stand where their integrity and character could be defined so the jury would have all the marbles to consider in rendering a verdict. There is much information floating around that the two individuals have a record of lying and making false accusations. That doesn't mean they are lying here - but unless they can be accepted as credible their testimony would have to be weighed against their characters. A plea agreement is more likely an advantageous course of action for the prosecution. The two sides trade the information they have and the prosecution is well aware that their "witnesses" might very well harm the case as opposed to providing the "last straw."

It is conceivable that going to trial would be the best course of action for Tommy. It would provide him the opportunity to dispel the accusations against him. However, one never can be assured of the integrity of the judge or the jury and certainly a defense has to consider the potential for the accusers to commit perjury and seeing the jury be taken in by the same. All trials are like a chess game and you have to play to the strongest course of action to lead to the most palatable result. In looking at the options Tommy and his team had to consider all the possible out comes.

- A conviction with jail time, probation, registration as a sex offender
- A conviction with jail time and probation
- A conviction with jail time and registration as a sex offender
- A conviction with jail time
- A conviction with probation and registration as a sex offender
- A conviction with probation
- No conviction

My guess is that prosecution, which doesn't represent the victims at all, but the state, set it's sights on the first choice. Of course, they also knew that the chances they would get that as the outcome were not real significant. They they looked at what they thought they could get from a plea agreement. The prosecution doesn't want to go to trial because it is too risky - they could completely lose. They need to secure some kind of punishment so they offer what they think they can scare the accused into. There is a psychological advantage for the prosecution in a criminal trial because the defendant can win something from the prosecution, as would happen in a civil trial. So, Tommy's team had to weigh the realities of the current moment: Can Tommy's health stand a trial? Can Tommy pay for a trial? Does Tommy want to tie up his immediate future in a trial? Answer those questions provides a basis for deciding whether or not to accept a plea agreement. Nothing is set in stone until both sides appear in court and make their plea agreement known to the judge. Even at that point, the judge can order the case to trial any way by rejecting the agreement.

The interesting twist over on RJP's den of deception (aka Advent Talk) is the newly blossoming talk of a civil suit, interesting because the alleged "victims" appearing there have asserted that they just wanted justice and not to destroy Tommy and his family. Now, it appears as if (probably as a result of prompting from GAJ/RJP) the dollar signs have hypnotized them. No longer do they want justice, they want money, a very sad development considering that they claim the title Christian, and deride any one who doesn't buy into their swill. It appears the true nature of their character has surfaced - selfishness. Their accusations were never about justice, never about putting to rest old demons and moving forward (which, if they had sought God long ago would have happened), this action was always about revenge (for GAJ/RJP) and money for the others. If their is a civil action, I wonder what percentage of the take will go to GAJ/RJP?

A very sad day for God as he watches these claimed followers of His behave like hyenas feeding on their fellow brother in Christ.proffaberf451
  
Posts: 52
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Re: Tommy Shelton
by Cynthia » Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:43 pm UTC

Interesting, from all. My opinion is that TS should plead innocent, but admit I don't know all. I do tend to think God's people need to walk forward in faith and never in fear. We may not always see what is ahead of us, but he always does, and is the best guide.


I also think it very interesting and significant though that the Prosecutor has repeatedly changed the charges (ages, dates) and reduced the charges. It has gone from sodomy, (victims statement didn't support that) to molestation to now it is just a verbal proposition. The facts and statements against Tommy, if true shouldn't be subject to so much change in my opinion. This leads me to conclude the prosecution's case and the plea bargain offered after allegedly consulting the victims, is not so strong or assured as they have made out. Just my opinion

In any case, I do not consider adventtalk the defining edge as far as reporting the facts goes and after reading all their posts and gloating and talk of civil suits, and attempts to bring DS and 3ABN into it all, wonder whether they aren't just counting their chickens before they are hatched. Certainly their agenda and goal is being loudly proclaimed. There is still a week to go before the scheduled court date. I guess we wait and see...




Those are big words coming from Cindy Conard and Greg Thompson.  Who have vehmently defended Danny's civil suit. I guess you all don't like it when the tables are turned, huh?

[Bob Pickle]

I object to Greg Thompson's false and defamatory statement that I have tried to convince, cajole, or pay people to falsely state that they were molested by Tommy Shelton, and I demand that he immediately correct his false statement.

If my request is directed to the wrong individual because Prof. Faber is not Greg Thompson, then Cindy or Prof. Faber can tell me whom I should direct this request to.

[Adam]

 To be clear this was written over at Cindy's devilish site. It was posted by Proffaber (Greg Thompson.)

 RJP at AT wrote:
I object to Greg Thompson's false and defamatory statement that I have tried to convince, cajole, or pay people to falsely state that they were molested by Tommy Shelton, and I demand that he immediately correct his false statement.

If my request is directed to the wrong individual because Prof. Faber is not Greg Thompson, then Cindy or Prof. Faber can tell me whom I should direct this request to.

It is interesting that RJP doesn't learn his lesson about making assumptions- he keeps doing it over and over again to his own detriment. I would guess that if Mr. Thompson were writing over here he could make the same demand about false statements against Mr. Pickle and would have a ton of evidence to make his case (too bad his latest protege over there is accepting his assumptions making practices).

It is also rather pathetic that RJP is known for taking offense to statements about himself, but has established that he should never be held in account for his defamatory statements, lies, misleadings, misstatements, judicious editing, etc. When he doesn't get his way he questions peoples character, their spiritual conviction, and anything else he can contrive in order to attack and marginalize those who disagree because he doesn't want to truth to be known, it would ruin his infamy.

For what it's worth, if I were Mr. Thompson, I'd respond to RJP by challenging him to publicly deny any involvement in this case - any at all. That denial would have to state that he has (since the first day of his involvement in ALL things 3ABN):

1. Never encouraged anyone to file a complaint against Tommy Shelton and that would include any form of verbal encouragement to do so, even merely asking, "Did you think about filing a complaint?' "Have you thought about filing a complaint?" "Have you thought about your responsibility to others?" or any other question that would have put pressure on an individual to consider filing a complaint or lead them to decide to "speak-up." RJP is notorious for couching his accusations as questions in an attempt to avoid having to take responsibility for the intent of his words, thus would argue that asking questions is innocuous.

2. At no time, ever spoken with the investigating detective, his/her assistant, or anyone at the police department running the investigation.

3. At no time, ever spoken with the prosecution, the prosecutions staff, or an employee of the court about ANY aspect of the case.

4. At no time, taken an alleged victim out to eat (which could be construed as being paid) while doing his "research."

5. At no time, ever spoken with any of his cohorts developing strategy on how to insure a case was brought against Tommy Shelton.

If he can deny every one of these unequivocally, the if I were Mr. Thompson I would apologize.

However, RJP can't deny each and every one of these points - it is a fact known by a significant number of people that he has involved himself, in more than one way mentioned above. Maybe if RJP wants an apology he should start by not being evasive and dishonest himself and attempting to create the perception on his site that he hasn't been involved. I don't expect that to happen.

[princessdi]

Now, Tinka,  She has already BEEN living with it the entire time.  I have not read where she left him for any period of time(which is just amazing to me, 'cuz, fact is he prefers young boys to grown women.  I would not feel the need to stay, ok?!!  He is just plan nasty!!!  Ooops sorry......).  Plus, has he had a job/congregation since then?  Who picked him up.  Did he have to leave a congregation for the position at 3ABN?  Girl, she been home with him everyda for a while now.  LOL!!!

Hmmm, didn't I state that he would plead "guilty". Now...what does he pay?? Staying in the house  "with his clothes on"??  I felt he needed a change of cloths for his deeds. Don't tell me there was not "persuasion" over this. I figured it long time ago. His guilty plea for "flee" for now will get him nothing but hell for justice on judgment day with that sick corrupted mind that for years never changed. Find any one that ever changed?? Nope their mind was seared in their first deed of black evil.
Just think wiffee will have him under her feet all day.    Can anyone imagine living with that evil everyday of your life?? You become what you live with!!.....So be it. or should I say You are what you choose. That is why I have no sympathy but disgust for the "guilty" and the sympathizers. I am glad that is over but not happy with the verdict. Oh and sympathizers of these deeds need to crawl under the table and pray for their heads of confusion.

edited for adding of words to verdict. Happy it is guilty -but not the justice of it. Oh, and Danny is guilty too....and the whole mess for protecting it. All in the name of SDA    Just keep eating the "feed" and depositing it on the gound.

[princessdi]

Sam, Sam, Sam....I would not do the same thing!  If you know you are telling the truth of your innocence, then you stand on God's Word that He will be your lawyer in the courtroom.  You would really admit to guilt when you were innocent, really?!!  I mean, really?!!

Trouble is TS already admitted to this behavior before.  You still are maintaining innocence that TS does not even claim.  That is what I am not understanding.   He is guilty, Sam and for a lot more than he is admitting.  For all the reasons already stated, neither side wanted to go to trial.  This by no means makes TS in any way, shape or form innocent of the charges.

As usual Duane, your slant on things shows you have learned well from pickle.  In a case such as this, he would not be allowed to plead no contest.  To say you are guilty is a technicality of the court in accepting this type of plea.  At his age, with very limited financial resources and with his severe heart condition, I would do the same thing. In no way does it mean he is guilty of these charges.

[Johann]

Looks to me like phishing.

To be clear this was written over at Cindy's devilish site. It was posted by Proffaber (Greg Thompson.)

 RJP at AT wrote:
I object to Greg Thompson's false and defamatory statement that I have tried to convince, cajole, or pay people to falsely state that they were molested by Tommy Shelton, and I demand that he immediately correct his false statement.

If my request is directed to the wrong individual because Prof. Faber is not Greg Thompson, then Cindy or Prof. Faber can tell me whom I should direct this request to.

It is interesting that RJP doesn't learn his lesson about making assumptions- he keeps doing it over and over again to his own detriment. I would guess that if Mr. Thompson were writing over here he could make the same demand about false statements against Mr. Pickle and would have a ton of evidence to make his case (too bad his latest protege over there is accepting his assumptions making practices).

It is also rather pathetic that RJP is known for taking offense to statements about himself, but has established that he should never be held in account for his defamatory statements, lies, misleadings, misstatements, judicious editing, etc. When he doesn't get his way he questions peoples character, their spiritual conviction, and anything else he can contrive in order to attack and marginalize those who disagree because he doesn't want to truth to be known, it would ruin his infamy.

For what it's worth, if I were Mr. Thompson, I'd respond to RJP by challenging him to publicly deny any involvement in this case - any at all. That denial would have to state that he has (since the first day of his involvement in ALL things 3ABN):

1. Never encouraged anyone to file a complaint against Tommy Shelton and that would include any form of verbal encouragement to do so, even merely asking, "Did you think about filing a complaint?' "Have you thought about filing a complaint?" "Have you thought about your responsibility to others?" or any other question that would have put pressure on an individual to consider filing a complaint or lead them to decide to "speak-up." RJP is notorious for couching his accusations as questions in an attempt to avoid having to take responsibility for the intent of his words, thus would argue that asking questions is innocuous.

2. At no time, ever spoken with the investigating detective, his/her assistant, or anyone at the police department running the investigation.

3. At no time, ever spoken with the prosecution, the prosecutions staff, or an employee of the court about ANY aspect of the case.

4. At no time, taken an alleged victim out to eat (which could be construed as being paid) while doing his "research."

5. At no time, ever spoken with any of his cohorts developing strategy on how to insure a case was brought against Tommy Shelton.

If he can deny every one of these unequivocally, the if I were Mr. Thompson I would apologize.

However, RJP can't deny each and every one of these points - it is a fact known by a significant number of people that he has involved himself, in more than one way mentioned above. Maybe if RJP wants an apology he should start by not being evasive and dishonest himself and attempting to create the perception on his site that he hasn't been involved. I don't expect that to happen.

[princessdi]

I can't really speak for them, but maybe maybe what they mean is finally the victims of TS get some sense of closure.  Somebody finally believes them.  Somebody is not blaming them for the abuse.  To finally hear TS admit to his wrongs and pay for them.  His victims have been lving with the nightmare and having it affect EVERY single aspect of their lives since TS first said the first inappropriate comment to them, while TS seemed to have moved on with his life virtually unscathed.  Yes, 3D, that sense of relief, might be described as being "thrilled".

Just to expand upon this also.  Do you and the other "Defenders" know that you all continued the cycle of TS abuse by your actions?  It maybe that you only meant to defend TS, but inadvertently you did further victimized these young men.  I am basically talking about the other victims, except Duane.  You all meant o thurt his feelings each and every time you got opportunity.............and that further victimized his.......Well, you attempted, but I am almost sure that Duane, through the restoring power of Jesus Christ was no longer victim, but victor.........Am I right about it, Duane?

A brand new poster sounds like they have a Vested interest to you??? ok... but based on what, Snoopy? Just their post below saying they are "thrilled"?

interesting... btw, I am not thrilled, either to hear this latest --if it's true, or to know others are thrilled. It just doesn't sit right with me.

[Adam]

Looks to me like phishing.

To be clear this was written over at Cindy's devilish site. It was posted by Proffaber (Greg Thompson.)

 RJP at AT wrote:
I object to Greg Thompson's false and defamatory statement that I have tried to convince, cajole, or pay people to falsely state that they were molested by Tommy Shelton, and I demand that he immediately correct his false statement.

If my request is directed to the wrong individual because Prof. Faber is not Greg Thompson, then Cindy or Prof. Faber can tell me whom I should direct this request to.

It is interesting that RJP doesn't learn his lesson about making assumptions- he keeps doing it over and over again to his own detriment. I would guess that if Mr. Thompson were writing over here he could make the same demand about false statements against Mr. Pickle and would have a ton of evidence to make his case (too bad his latest protege over there is accepting his assumptions making practices).

It is also rather pathetic that RJP is known for taking offense to statements about himself, but has established that he should never be held in account for his defamatory statements, lies, misleadings, misstatements, judicious editing, etc. When he doesn't get his way he questions peoples character, their spiritual conviction, and anything else he can contrive in order to attack and marginalize those who disagree because he doesn't want to truth to be known, it would ruin his infamy.

For what it's worth, if I were Mr. Thompson, I'd respond to RJP by challenging him to publicly deny any involvement in this case - any at all. That denial would have to state that he has (since the first day of his involvement in ALL things 3ABN):

1. Never encouraged anyone to file a complaint against Tommy Shelton and that would include any form of verbal encouragement to do so, even merely asking, "Did you think about filing a complaint?' "Have you thought about filing a complaint?" "Have you thought about your responsibility to others?" or any other question that would have put pressure on an individual to consider filing a complaint or lead them to decide to "speak-up." RJP is notorious for couching his accusations as questions in an attempt to avoid having to take responsibility for the intent of his words, thus would argue that asking questions is innocuous.

2. At no time, ever spoken with the investigating detective, his/her assistant, or anyone at the police department running the investigation.

3. At no time, ever spoken with the prosecution, the prosecutions staff, or an employee of the court about ANY aspect of the case.

4. At no time, taken an alleged victim out to eat (which could be construed as being paid) while doing his "research."

5. At no time, ever spoken with any of his cohorts developing strategy on how to insure a case was brought against Tommy Shelton.

If he can deny every one of these unequivocally, the if I were Mr. Thompson I would apologize.

However, RJP can't deny each and every one of these points - it is a fact known by a significant number of people that he has involved himself, in more than one way mentioned above. Maybe if RJP wants an apology he should start by not being evasive and dishonest himself and attempting to create the perception on his site that he hasn't been involved. I don't expect that to happen.

Yes, they just can't except defeat.  It must be hard for them seeing that they have been vehmently supporting him for years now.  Now, he is going to be a convicted Sex offender. So, the only thing they think they can do, is keep defending. It's sick really, but not suprising.  The Christian thing for them to do would be to appologize, but they are bound to their "regime." They must remain loyal to Danny, their leader.

[princessdi]

If I am not mistaken, ST, for the victims to change their minds, they would have to say that they purgered themselves when they first reported the crime, and any subsequent depostions.  So at this point, even if the victims did not want to cooperate anyhlonger with authorities, it is of no consequence.  The police hae already done their own investigation which was began by and includes the the victims complaints and testimonies.  But basically they no longer need their cooperation, especially for a plea bargain.  It might have gotten a bit more difficult, though, had they gone to trial. 

It is kind of like the authorities no longer "need" a victims copperation to prosecute for domestic abuse.  They can move forward and "compel" the victim to testify, if even as a hostile witness.

Using your own logic Gregory, how is it fair that Tommy can change his mind, but the victims cannot? I believe you should do some better research.

[Bob Pickle]

To be clear this was written over at Cindy's devilish site. It was posted by Proffaber (Greg Thompson.)

It appears that Greg Thompson is trying to change the subject. I specifically demanded that he retract his false and defamatory statement that I convinced, cajoled, or paid people to falsely accuse Tommy. He has not addressed the point I raised.

[mrst53]

Bob, if I were you, I wouldn't hold my breath

[Adam]

Re: Tommy Shelton
by Greg Thompson » Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:23 am UTC

If it helps, Robert can wait a long time, because I am not apologizing for something I never said.





Nice try, Greg or Proffaber.  These people are stupid, I'm serious.  The funny thing, is Greg just made an account over there, just to say that?? MHM, we believe that, just like we believe Tommy is innocent.  Greg, some of us was born in the night, but it sure wasn't last night. Oh, by the way is your father willing to appologize to the victims, for calling them liars? We all noticed the fact that it came to light that he aborted his own baby. He didn't like did he? No more than people appreciated him calling them liars.