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[Gregory]

Samuelthomas said:

So technically the victims could as the prosecution to withdraw the plea deal, just as Tommy could as his attorneys too. Correct?

Perhaps I do not understand your question?   As I understand your question, the answer is a clear No.

The prosecution of a crime (as opposed to a civil case) is independent of the wishes of the victims.

NOTE:  If a victim refuses to testify the prosecution may be left with an inability to prosecute due to a lack of evidence.

The victims do not decide whether or not to prosecute. That decision is made by others depending upon the circumstances and the applicable law.

In the quotation above I understand you to say as follows:  "So technically the victims could as the prosecution withdraw the plea deal, just as Tommy could as his attorneys too. Correct?"  NOTE: To help me understand it, I have removed the word "to."

Based upon the above understanding, the victims are not the prosecution.  Basic principles of U.S. law tell us that the victim cannot prosecute a criminal (as opposed to a civil) case.  The decision to prosecute, under U.S. law must be objective.  Victims are not objective. Victims only provide evidence.

[ex3abnemployee]

I have been looking around on the internet and found a case where a man was charged in the death of a 12 year old girl in Virginia and agreed not to contest first degree murder charges. After requesting a psychological evaluation and being denied, the man immediately asked the judge to vacate the plea agreement, saying that the prosecution had overstated the evidence. The judge denied the motion.

[Adam]

Gregory:

I am asking if a victim could request the prosecutor to withdraw the plea, if the defendant can.  My understaning is, and trust me I have court experience. That the victim has the right to agree or disagree before the plea is submitted to the defendant, so why wouldn't the victims be able to ask the prosecution to withdraw, if they have a change of heart? That makes no sense to me.

Samuelthomas said:

So technically the victims could as the prosecution to withdraw the plea deal, just as Tommy could as his attorneys too. Correct?

Perhaps I do not understand your question?   As I understand your question, the answer is a clear No.

The prosecution of a crime (as opposed to a civil case) is independent of the wishes of the victims.

NOTE:  If a victim refuses to testify the prosecution may be left with an inability to prosecute due to a lack of evidence.

The victims do not decide whether or not to prosecute. That decision is made by others depending upon the circumstances and the applicable law.

In the quotation above I understand you to say as follows:  "So technically the victims could as the prosecution withdraw the plea deal, just as Tommy could as his attorneys too. Correct?"  NOTE: To help me understand it, I have removed the word "to."

Based upon the above understanding, the victims are not the prosecution.  Basic principles of U.S. law tell us that the victim cannot prosecute a criminal (as opposed to a civil) case.  The decision to prosecute, under U.S. law must be objective.  Victims are not objective. Victims only provide evidence.

[Gregory]

Duane:

You are correct.  The final decision lies with the judge.  Legal issues are always complex and simplistic answers always have exceptions.

The judge can refuse to allow a party to a plea bargain to withdraw from that plea bargain.

[ex3abnemployee]

Duane:

You are correct.  The final decision lies with the judge.  Legal issues are always complex and simplistic answers always have exceptions.

The judge can refuse to allow a party to a plea bargain to withdraw from that plea bargain.

And I think that is where the confusion lies. That's a good way to put it. The question is who are the parties to the plea bargain. Since this is a criminal case, the parties are the state of Virginia and Tommy Shelton. To answer ST's question, it sounds like the victims could indeed request that the state file a motion to withdraw the plea agreement, but it wouldn't necessarily happen.

[tinka]

Samuel

It could be that with the "guilty" plea first agreed will give all the leeway for the judge to take all the liberties of justice for the best results.  A case close to us just gave 25 years to a first time offender of not the actual act but putting a child porno Picture on the internet. He did not do what TS did -the actual act bodily. I believe the judge will take all into consideration of what happened to many for many years. Lets see what he does with this. To me the mother's letter was enough as she was a witness. and I believe there is a whole lot of "shaken" gonin on!!

[Gregory]

Samuelthomas asked:

I am asking if a victim could request the prosecutor to withdraw the plea, if the defendant can.  My understaning is, and trust me I have court experience. That the victim has the right to agree or disagree before the plea is submitted to the defendant, so why wouldn't the victims be able to ask the prosecution to withdraw, if they have a change of heart? That makes no sense to me.

1) Of course the victim can ask the prosecutor to act in any manner that the victim wishes to do.  The prosecutor does not have to follow the wishes of the victim unless, as I have stated, a refusal to testify results in a lack of evidence.
2) The governing law is most typically the laws of the State.  NOTE: In a Federal case it is Federal law.
3) In some States the victim has the right to make his/her wishes known to the judge.  But, the judge typically dos not have to follow the wishes of the victim unless that results in a lack of evidence.
4) I am only writing in general terms.  I am not knowledgable of Virginia law which appears to be the applicable law in this case.
5) Frankly, as this conversation is developing it looks to me like you and I are in greater agareement than I thought in the beginning.  
6) Honest people can differ and yet agree on some points.  They can also discuss civilally.  I thank you for doing so.  I appreciate talking to you even when you take me on.  

[Gregory]

Duane said:

And I think that is where the confusion lies. That's a good way to put it. The question is who are the parties to the plea bargain. Since this is a criminal case, the parties are the state of Virginia and Tommy Shelton. To answer ST's question, it sounds like the victims could indeed request that the state file a motion to withdraw the plea agreement, but it wouldn't necessarily happen.

The law can be confusing.  Simplistic responses can be confusing.  I can be confusing in my responses. 

You have made a good response.

In the discussion that is taking place, perhaps people reading this are getting a better understanding of the issues?

 
 
 

[Adam]

Yes, I agree.  I do see your point, I guess my question was if the victim could ask the prosecutor, and it seems we agree on that point.  

I did find this, and as you stated the victim does have a voice, but not a veto in the matter.

http://www.ojp.gov/ovc/publications/bulletins/legalseries/bulletin7/3.html

[ex3abnemployee]

Duane said:

And I think that is where the confusion lies. That's a good way to put it. The question is who are the parties to the plea bargain. Since this is a criminal case, the parties are the state of Virginia and Tommy Shelton. To answer ST's question, it sounds like the victims could indeed request that the state file a motion to withdraw the plea agreement, but it wouldn't necessarily happen.

The law can be confusing.  Simplistic responses can be confusing.  I can be confusing in my responses. 

You have made a good response.

In the discussion that is taking place, perhaps people reading this are getting a better understanding of the issues?

I know that I am getting a clearer understanding. When you talked about the "parties" to the plea agreement that's when it clicked for me.

[ex3abnemployee]

Well, time for me to head to church. I'll be back on this afternoon to check all the latest developments. 

[Gregory]

Have a blessed day of worshiping God.

[Gregory]

Yes, I agree.  I do see your point, I guess my question was if the victim could ask the prosecutor, and it seems we agree on that point.  

I did find this, and as you stated the victim does have a voice, but not a veto in the matter.

http://www.ojp.gov/ovc/publications/bulletins/legalseries/bulletin7/3.html

Excellent statement of the issues.  I encourage you-all to click on the URL and read the document.

[Adam]

I believe Echo has it right, Echo seems to be the only "voice of reason" over at that pitiful excuse for a forum.


Re: Tommy Shelton
by Echo » Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:23 pm UTC

Option number three would be to simply go to trial and allow the jury to consider the evidence. If he is confident in his innocence why not simply trust his future to the Lord and go to trial? If I was elderly and had a bad heart but knew I was innocent, there is NO WAY I would accept a plea bargain that would keep me out of prison but require that I lie about my guilt.Echo
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:05 am UTC

[ex3abnemployee]

I believe Echo has it right, Echo seems to be the only "voice of reason" over at that pitiful excuse for a forum.


Re: Tommy Shelton
by Echo » Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:23 pm UTC

Option number three would be to simply go to trial and allow the jury to consider the evidence. If he is confident in his innocence why not simply trust his future to the Lord and go to trial? If I was elderly and had a bad heart but knew I was innocent, there is NO WAY I would accept a plea bargain that would keep me out of prison but require that I lie about my guilt.Echo
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:05 am UTC

Yes, I saw that. Watch, though, how quickly they will turn on Echo now.