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[Pat Williams]

Ok, it might have been so long ago that I don't remember that someone gave me the answer, but why come........sorry........how come there are so many people who are like 3D and Ian(my good friends, but I am jsut asking a question), who have no persona or first hand knowledge of this entire mess, come to dispute Johann's word for incidents he himself witnessed or even experienced, and/or heard directly from Linda regarding her own experiences.   Would it not make more sense for someone who is closer to the situation, more personally involved to dispute the events with Johann?  I'm just asking, I think it would go a long way toward credibility.  At least we could say that it was amatter of perspective, but this way, I have to go with Johann as he has more crediblity because of his personal involvement, which is not disputed by either side.

Princessdi, it is disputed as the majority of the time Johann was not anywhere around.

1. He introduced the Doctor and Linda

2. He came by for a couple of hours or less during one day while Linda and Brenda were in Norway at the Doctors

3. He showed up at the 3abn camp meeting with the Doctor.

That's it. The rest is what he heard secondhand.

Which is no different then the rest of us.

People who were there and were witnesses have tried to talk to Johann to no avail.

Based on who's information, Danny's? Surely you have a better source of information than that 3D. Please tell me you do.

One source is Johann himself. He posted all this himself, and discussed it with others in his posts. and he published the letters between himself and Danny shelton, and between himself and the Chairman of the 3abn board.

He was in constant communication with Linda, that's his source, and he judged all that everyone else said to him, such as Danny, Nick Miller, Dr T, Kay Kuzma etc etc etc, [Who were there with Linda and tried to tell him different] and pronounced all liars  all based on what Linda had told him,[from the other side of the world from him]. Read the letters and see for yourself , please. They aren't the only letters published online, together they tell the story.

3D, do you know where I could find these letters? I would like to see them. Thank You.

Most of them were on Blacksda. I could find them but they are buried in discussions, so it might take some time. This blog does have some letters but no letters from or to Johann I don't think:
http://references4links.blogspot.com/2007/05/lss-chosen-representatives.html

I'll try and find you the links to the others , but it will probably be after Sabbath before I can get back to you.

[Adam]

Ok, it might have been so long ago that I don't remember that someone gave me the answer, but why come........sorry........how come there are so many people who are like 3D and Ian(my good friends, but I am jsut asking a question), who have no persona or first hand knowledge of this entire mess, come to dispute Johann's word for incidents he himself witnessed or even experienced, and/or heard directly from Linda regarding her own experiences.   Would it not make more sense for someone who is closer to the situation, more personally involved to dispute the events with Johann?  I'm just asking, I think it would go a long way toward credibility.  At least we could say that it was amatter of perspective, but this way, I have to go with Johann as he has more crediblity because of his personal involvement, which is not disputed by either side.

Princessdi, it is disputed as the majority of the time Johann was not anywhere around.

1. He introduced the Doctor and Linda

2. He came by for a couple of hours or less during one day while Linda and Brenda were in Norway at the Doctors

3. He showed up at the 3abn camp meeting with the Doctor.

That's it. The rest is what he heard secondhand.

Which is no different then the rest of us.

People who were there and were witnesses have tried to talk to Johann to no avail.

Based on who's information, Danny's? Surely you have a better source of information than that 3D. Please tell me you do.

One source is Johann himself. He posted all this himself, and discussed it with others in his posts. and he published the letters between himself and Danny shelton, and between himself and the Chairman of the 3abn board.

He was in constant communication with Linda, that's his source, and he judged all that everyone else said to him, such as Danny, Nick Miller, Dr T, Kay Kuzma etc etc etc, [Who were there with Linda and tried to tell him different] and pronounced all liars  all based on what Linda had told him,[from the other side of the world from him]. Read the letters and see for yourself , please. They aren't the only letters published online, together they tell the story.

3D, do you know where I could find these letters? I would like to see them. Thank You.

Most of them were on Blacksda. I could find them but they are buried in discussions, so it might take some time. This blog does have some letters but no letters from or to Johann I don't think:
http://references4links.blogspot.com/2007/05/lss-chosen-representatives.html

I'll try and find you the links to the others , but it will probably be after Sabbath before I can get back to you.

Again, thank you. I appreciate that.

[Sister]

3D, you are still ignoring my questions.

3D, are you ignoring my questions:

So, 3D, why should we believe your spin about Johann? How would you know about why he was fired? Were you there? How do you know how often he and his wife were with Linda? Were you there? Have you ever lived on the 3ABN compound? Have you ever worked at 3ABN? Were you ever a member of the Thompsonville Church? Have you ever spoken to Danny or Linda personally?
3D said:

The rest is what he heard secondhand.

Which is no different then the rest of us.


 

   Does that mean that you have no personal knowledge or experience with 3ABC, Danny or Linda Shelton? Then why are you claiming to know the truth? Johann traveled in Europe with Danny and Linda. Danny and Johann had extensive email correspondence. Have you?

[GRAT]

3-D is really good at ignoring questions.  I have asked her about 4 times to answer a question of mine and she just ignores it and spins off, or tries to make a person feel that they are a nothing in the world and he/she is the teller of all truth.

[Gregory]

John Lomacang said:

As I read it I was a bit disappointed to see that you expressed so little confidence in the church board, the church members, and in me. To incessantly suggest that the church is made of “compromised” members is quite short-sighted on your part. This board is not made of people bought by Danny Shelton. It is comprised of God-fearing Christians that understand all too well the great responsibility of making well informed decisions.

Elder Lomacang appears to have missed the fundamental issue in his response to Linda.

The issue here is an ethical one and it is not revelant whether or not he and/or the Chruch Board/Church Members would have treated Linda fairly and objectively.  They might have  and they might not have.  Linda did not phrase it in the professional language that she might have used.  Elder L. simply ignored the fundamental issues.  Perhaps it was because he did not understand them.  Linda had a right to be concerned and to raise those issues.  Elder Lomacang should have worked with her to satisfactorly resolve them.   Linda deserved something better.  It was that unwillingness to attempt to resolve the issues that led her to request that her membership be dropped from the rolls of that church.

It should be noted that immedately after her membership was dropped, she was accepted into membership in a SDA chruch in another Conference.  Linda was not leaveing the SDA CHruch.  She simply left the local congregation and justifiably so.

[Adam]

I have a few questions that maybe you, Gregory, can answer, please.

1. Is Linda Shelton actively involved in the SDA church as of now?

2. Was there any type of acts by 3ABN or any of it's people to keep Linda from joining another church?

3. Also, I read somewhere that Pastor Stanton was sent to a church that Linda was attending after her dismissal at 3ABN.  Was this an attempt to get her to leave that church?

Just a few questions I had.

John Lomacang said:

As I read it I was a bit disappointed to see that you expressed so little confidence in the church board, the church members, and in me. To incessantly suggest that the church is made of “compromised” members is quite short-sighted on your part. This board is not made of people bought by Danny Shelton. It is comprised of God-fearing Christians that understand all too well the great responsibility of making well informed decisions.

Elder Lomacang appears to have missed the fundamental issue in his response to Linda.

The issue here is an ethical one and it is not revelant whether or not he and/or the Chruch Board/Church Members would have treated Linda fairly and objectively.  They might have  and they might not have.  Linda did not phrase it in the professional language that she might have used.  Elder L. simply ignored the fundamental issues.  Perhaps it was because he did not understand them.  Linda had a right to be concerned and to raise those issues.  Elder Lomacang should have worked with her to satisfactorly resolve them.   Linda deserved something better.  It was that unwillingness to attempt to resolve the issues that led her to request that her membership be dropped from the rolls of that church.

It should be noted that immedately after her membership was dropped, she was accepted into membership in a SDA chruch in another Conference.  Linda was not leaveing the SDA CHruch.  She simply left the local congregation and justifiably so.

[Gregory]

ST Asked:

I have a few questions that maybe you, Gregory, can answer, please.

1. Is Linda Shelton actively involved in the SDA church as of now?

2. Was there any type of acts by 3ABN or any of it's people to keep Linda from joining another church?

3. Also, I read somewhere that Pastor Stanton was sent to a church that Linda was attending after her dismissal at 3ABN.  Was this an attempt to get her to leave that church?

1) I have not been in contact with Linda for some time.  However, due to the extensive time period in which I was in contact with her I think that I can truthfylly say that Linda is presently actively involved in a SDA Congregation.

2) Linda was immediately accepted into membership of a SDA  Church in another Conference.  I do not believe that there would have been time for anybody to keep her from joining that Church.  I believe it happoened without the knowledge of anyone at 3-ABN or of anyone in her former chruch.  The Church that Linda joind did not need to contact her former Church as Linda came to it with recomendations which evidently were satisfactory to the congregation that she joined.

3)  I am not going to comment on this as I do not believe that I have a factual basis for comment.  Much of the discussion on this is simply speculaton.

[Adam]

As always, thank you, Gregory.

ST Asked:

I have a few questions that maybe you, Gregory, can answer, please.

1. Is Linda Shelton actively involved in the SDA church as of now?

2. Was there any type of acts by 3ABN or any of it's people to keep Linda from joining another church?

3. Also, I read somewhere that Pastor Stanton was sent to a church that Linda was attending after her dismissal at 3ABN.  Was this an attempt to get her to leave that church?

1) I have not been in contact with Linda for some time.  However, due to the extensive time period in which I was in contact with her I think that I can truthfylly say that Linda is presently actively involved in a SDA Congregation.

2) Linda was immediately accepted into membership of a SDA  Church in another Conference.  I do not believe that there would have been time for anybody to keep her from joining that Church.  I believe it happoened without the knowledge of anyone at 3-ABN or of anyone in her former chruch.  The Church that Linda joind did not need to contact her former Church as Linda came to it with recomendations which evidently were satisfactory to the congregation that she joined.

3)  I am not going to comment on this as I do not believe that I have a factual basis for comment.  Much of the discussion on this is simply speculaton.

[Murcielago]

When a guy runs out of substance in the debate he is left no alternative but to try getting personal with the one he is debating. "Well, you have to say that..." Lol. Thats alright 3D, I still like you. I would have no problem telling you straight up if I were Linda's second right hand man, but I have my life and she has hers, and they don't seem to intersect in the manner you seem to wish they did. However, she deserves friends as much as any other person in spite of some cultish types who seem to think otherwise. It is a traditionally cultish thing to try isolating those who have fallen from grace, and attacking their friends for being friends. I sincerely hope that never happens to you 3D.

You might be surprised at the look-em-in-the-eye conversations that have taken place. Also, a reasonable person might wonder if even though some of the 3ABN Church board members were not 3ABN employees, were their spouses? Or other family members?

It is a good guess that a church board and group of members whose livelyhood is largely dependent on one of the parties in a dispute, will vote in favor of that party in a squabble of this nature. Protests to the contrary don't carry the weight of logic or reason. Pastor Lomacang's letter expresses ample outrage, but fails to refute the suspicion.

Well you have to say that George, next to Johann, you are Linda's right hand man.

I wonder if you would have the nerve to say the above to the members and Pastor of that church and actually look them in the eye when you said it? I somehow doubt it.

edited to add, If I remember correctly 3abn employees were a minority on the board at the time. Is that correct, George. I could ask someone else, but you should know, right?

[tinka]

 You refused by saying that you were not ready and that you would let us know when you were ready for our visits. You never contacted us so we can only assume that you did not want a visit from us. Even when we saw you in the mall with Danny,

corrected as I hit wrong button before I posted.

This statement might show that Linda would only meet Danny at Mall because she did fear. Otherwise why meet there?

[Sister]

The Dream
Chapter 1
Continued...

Within the life of every true follower of Jesus Christ there is a transformation of character that takes place: “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold all things have become new.” Through this spiritual new birth, a process of moral and ethical changes takes place within the character of an individual who unites his life with Christ. When this process fails on the part of the professed believer and the connection between he and Christ is no longer maintained, moral and ethical accountability often become an unnecessary restraint that is easily severed. Although the internal changes are not always evident, even to those that have a close relationship with the fallen man or woman, the process of moral disintegration has begun. Throughout this process the Holy Spirit continues to woo the unfaithful “believer”, but God will not force the renewal of their relationship, though He will faithfully continue to seek out His beloved child who has wandered away from His protection.

When a child grows up in a dysfunctional environment his understanding of this process of “new birth” and spiritual growth may become greatly distorted. Without a clear understanding, he can grow into manhood with a warped spiritual condition: an outward form of religion without the personal accountability which is normally developed through a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Within the context of this misrepresentation of the Christian experience, an individual can continue in a secret life of moral corruption—which would be not only unacceptable, but even heinous within mainstream Christianity—while still publically professing Christianity and even leading out in ministry. This condition is based upon a paradigm where the concession is made “...that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world, but at the same time they hold themselves away from Him, and fail to repent of their sins, fail to accept of Jesus as their personal Savior. Their faith is simply the assent of the mind and judgment to the truth; but the truth is not brought into the heart, that it might sanctify the soul and transform the character...”

Without the transforming power of a personal relationship with Christ, without the sanctifying influence gained through prayer, Bible study, the application of Biblical principles within the life of an individual and the restraint of the Holy Spirit—the result can be a wolf in sheep’s clothing, peacefully grazing  among the lambs. Although he has been fully accepted into the flock, in truth he is an imposter. Without a conscience under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, he opens his mind to the influence of Satan. This errant individual lives his life to satisfy his own desires and willing indulges them. Although he may profess his loyalty to God and dedicate his life to ministry, his first desire is to indulge his own pleasures. Given time, opportunity and lack of accountability he may become a law onto himself. Ultimately, even convincing himself that he is above the Law of God and “the means always justify the results” he is seeking. It is within a framework such as this that the saga of Linda’s “fall from grace” is fabricated.

[Adam]

3D, I went over to BlackSDA, and looked around, but didn't find what I was looking for. It is possible I was looking in the wrong area. 

Ok, it might have been so long ago that I don't remember that someone gave me the answer, but why come........sorry........how come there are so many people who are like 3D and Ian(my good friends, but I am jsut asking a question), who have no persona or first hand knowledge of this entire mess, come to dispute Johann's word for incidents he himself witnessed or even experienced, and/or heard directly from Linda regarding her own experiences.   Would it not make more sense for someone who is closer to the situation, more personally involved to dispute the events with Johann?  I'm just asking, I think it would go a long way toward credibility.  At least we could say that it was amatter of perspective, but this way, I have to go with Johann as he has more crediblity because of his personal involvement, which is not disputed by either side.

Princessdi, it is disputed as the majority of the time Johann was not anywhere around.

1. He introduced the Doctor and Linda

2. He came by for a couple of hours or less during one day while Linda and Brenda were in Norway at the Doctors

3. He showed up at the 3abn camp meeting with the Doctor.

That's it. The rest is what he heard secondhand.

Which is no different then the rest of us.

People who were there and were witnesses have tried to talk to Johann to no avail.

Based on who's information, Danny's? Surely you have a better source of information than that 3D. Please tell me you do.

One source is Johann himself. He posted all this himself, and discussed it with others in his posts. and he published the letters between himself and Danny shelton, and between himself and the Chairman of the 3abn board.

He was in constant communication with Linda, that's his source, and he judged all that everyone else said to him, such as Danny, Nick Miller, Dr T, Kay Kuzma etc etc etc, [Who were there with Linda and tried to tell him different] and pronounced all liars  all based on what Linda had told him,[from the other side of the world from him]. Read the letters and see for yourself , please. They aren't the only letters published online, together they tell the story.

3D, do you know where I could find these letters? I would like to see them. Thank You.

Most of them were on Blacksda. I could find them but they are buried in discussions, so it might take some time. This blog does have some letters but no letters from or to Johann I don't think:
http://references4links.blogspot.com/2007/05/lss-chosen-representatives.html

I'll try and find you the links to the others , but it will probably be after Sabbath before I can get back to you.

[Sister]

The Dream
Chapter 1
Continued...

How could the situation between Danny and Linda escalate so quickly? In a period of less than four months how could it so swiftly proceed from the first accusations of “Spiritual Adultery”, through the pubic humiliation of Linda, and culminate with a divorce decree between Linda and Danny Shelton in June, 2004? How could Danny publically proclaim his continued love and desire for reconciliation with his wife, while simultaneously eradicating every trace of Linda from their ministry and seeking a “quickie divorce” in Guam?

Apparently a significant dichotomy exists between the public pronouncements and the hidden motives. Is it possible to reconcile these opposing  paradigms? As the Apostle James so wisely observed: “Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so. Does a spring send forth fresh water and bitter from the same opening? Can a fig tree, my brethren, bear olives, or a grape vine bear figs? Thus no spring yields both salt water and fresh.” In light of Scripture it would appear impossible for the President of a Christian ministry, devoted to the task of “mending broken people”, to so easily dispose of his wife of nineteen years.

[Johann]

Princessdi, it is disputed as the majority of the time Johann was not anywhere around.

How did you know that I ceased to exist? Hibernating somewhere?

1. He introduced the Doctor and Linda

Where? How? Where you there since you make such a point of it?

 

2. He came by for a couple of hours or less during one day while Linda and Brenda were in Norway at the Doctors

So? According to whose watch?

3. He showed up at the 3abn camp meeting with the Doctor.

That's it. The rest is what he heard secondhand.

So all the e-mail from Danny Shelton was mere secondhand trash? That is an interesting way of looking at it.

Which is no different then the rest of us.

Quite sure that you were just as involved as I was? Who are you then?

- - -
He was in constant communication with Linda, that's his source, and he judged all that everyone else said to him, such as Danny, Nick Miller, Dr T, Kay Kuzma etc etc etc, [Who were there with Linda and tried to tell him different] and pronounced all liars  all based on what Linda had told him,[from the other side of the world from him]. Read the letters and see for yourself , please. They aren't the only letters published online, together they tell the story.

Just came back home from a trip where I did not bring my laptop along.

All I'll say at this time is that I was probably more that 70 times more in correspondence with a certain Mr. Danny Shelton of 3ABN during the time when he contemplated divorcing his wife than the contact I had with her. It was this Danny Shelton, the president of 3ABN, who convinced that he was not doing the right thing, and that he was attempting to mislead people into believing that he had the full right to marry another woman as soon as he could get rid of Linda.

Yes, Danny asked me to delete the emails he has written to me when he realized he had revealed his grave mistakes to me. He also admitted that those emails would give people the evidence needed against him.

All that nonsense about Linda being my only source is very amusing to me, and show me, beyond the shadow of a doubt, how the minds of people are masterminded to believe the false stories . . .

All these fake claims about distance sounds as if certain people are still living in the 17th century when all communication between continents was done by boat mail taking up to two weeks in each direction. I can assure you that the hundred some posts I received from Danny Shelton came to me instantly by e-mail without anyone else at 3ABN having any idea of what was going on.

I'd like to know who tried to talk to me to no avail.

[tinka]

Johann,
I am pleased to find that my very thoughts of your honesty prevails. I knew that you would not say or imply unless you had it down pat.  There is not too many times that in my later years am I wrong to discern ones character. When younger I learned many lessons the hard way as you know. I am thinking that it won't be to long before the "sympathizers and protector will feel the "earthquake" in their shoes.