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[childoftheking]

George, Thank you for that. And would you not agree that there is the "church at large" which is invisible and which at the present time has many members who are in diverse fellowships and are living up to the light they have and who are endevoring to follow God's leading. They are God's children and they are our brothers and sisters. They will be in heaven I believe. There are many churches, many denominations of which the Seventh-day Adventist church is but one.

However if we believe what it teaches, the Seventh-day Adventist Church was called out of these communions to perform a task. Of whom much is given, much will be required. To complete its mission requires that its members treat it not as a "country club", a social culture or a political organization whose rank and file are required to sacrifice all while the elite upper classes benefit (all the while the elite profess to be of more service to the cause of God than the rank and file). The elite can be kind of "clubby" But we are told that not all members of our church, our denomination are converted and not all of us will be saved in the end. But I beleive that this is where God wants me to be and I believe its teachings in spite of all of our human frailties.

[tinka]

Childoftheking, and Johann,

I am so glad there is still 'right" expressed in both your posts according to scripture and rules. I do not like to read Gregory's theories or justification smoothing over corruption, adultery and misuse and what has been done "so let it be" attitude.  That does not make it right. I know one thing for sure...if it all did not happen we all would not be on here discussing what we see that is not approved by the "public donors" but evidently approved by the "followers" and the "clan" of local loco church that is persuaded by the perverse adulterer.  I hope he is okayed to marry 6 more times so his money runs out. Maybe after a few more times the public will get wise since of course most do not know this is going on. He is counting on the seniors that are not on computers.

[Murcielago]

"Jesus did not establish or condone the institution of denominationalism. Denominations are a creation of people using the name of God to justify the establishment of a power structure under which people of like mind may come together, pay their club dues, and look with pity, suspicion, or jaundiced eye upon those outside the fold..." An over-simplification, to be sure, yet there is an undeniably unfortunate truth to it.

That said, a person in a position of power and in charge of the purse from which the members of the church that will judge his right to remarriage draw their living, will be rightfully expected to emerge exonerrated from a debacle such as this one.

[Adam]

Childoftheking, and Johann,

I am so glad there is still 'right" expressed in both your posts according to scripture and rules. I do not like to read Gregory's theories or justification smoothing over corruption, adultery and misuse and what has been done "so let it be" attitude.  That does not make it right. I know one thing for sure...if it all did not happen we all would not be on here discussing what we see that is not approved by the "public donors" but evidently approved by the "followers" and the "clan" of local loco church that is persuaded by the perverse adulterer.  I hope he is okayed to marry 6 more times so his money runs out. Maybe after a few more times the public will get wise since of course most do not know this is going on. He is counting on the seniors that are not on computers.

My sentiments exactly Tinka, a few more marriages and he may have to marry for money himself! 

[Fran]

Maranatha; so come Lord Jesus!

I find it very amusing reading many of these posts. These defenders are using a unique method many lawyers use, and seem quite skilled at it. They are searching for small loopholes in areas where certain details seem unclear. And then they major on attacks in these areas causing the vision of some people to be blurred. They keep shooting at these targets to obscure the general picture of the events, and thereby hoping to gain a victory by a multitude of weak arguments.

This is not a new method. Scripture testifies to the fact that Adam and Eve attempted to use the same method hoping God would look in a different direction. So the great majority of people in this world hope to gain the attention of even the  Lord Himself to look at something else so they can sneak in through the door.

How many are claiming, "See how righteous I am? Look at all the many good things I have done. They obscure the minor faults I might have made, if I actually made any."

This method will be used until the bells toll for the final judgment - and is the greatest danger to keep us out of heaven.

[Fran]

Did God make the rules or does the Seventh-day Adventist Church have the right to change the rules or the interpretation? Do church or community customs or tradition have more weight than the Bible? Does God change his standards because the church is influenced by the world and changes hers? Do we follow the Catholic Church in its interpretaion of the "statement that whatever the church binds on earth is bound in heaven."?

One who knowingly willingly practices sin can  fool others into thinking he is justified in his actions and they might look the other way. They might feel that because there isn't immediate thunder and lightening and the sinner seems to prosper that God isn't angered. But do not mistake longsuffering patience for infinite forbearing. Humans have short memory, forget, move on to a new interest or pressing crisis and feel that because things are in the past they are no longer relevant or actionable. Are unrepented of transgressions made holy because of the passage of time or because of the public opinion of the "saints"? Is God pragmatic with a post modern mindset? I know that God is mercifull but is He stupid? Or is He a wimp? Is he less exacting than He declares Himself to be?  I think not.

Not always but sometimes even today "cold case crimes" are revived and solved and the perpetrators made to face judgement -  even in our imperfect legal system. Sometimes in this world people are put on probation and they violate their probation or their time runs out. God's legal system is infinitely superior. Should we respect it less?

[Fran]

"Jesus did not establish or condone the institution of denominationalism. Denominations are a creation of people using the name of God to justify the establishment of a power structure under which people of like mind may come together, pay their club dues, and look with pity, suspicion, or jaundiced eye upon those outside the fold..." An over-simplification, to be sure, yet there is an undeniably unfortunate truth to it.

That said, a person in a position of power and in charge of the purse from which the members of the church that will judge his right to remarriage draw their living, will be rightfully expected to emerge exonerrated from a debacle such as this one.

Yes, Yes!

[princessdi]

Ian, you know who sister is?!!

When I wrote "An Unauthorized History of 3ABN" I had no contact with Linda Shelton.  Part of my information did come from a Shelton, not one by marriage, but one from birth. Before you start surmising further, I am not referring to Steve Shelton, but another Shelton. Once more than one person has information it is no longer a secret.

* * *

Does anyone remember President Bill Clinton on nationwide television, looking directly into the camera and swearing, "I did not have sex with that woman!"

 

So much for credibility when sex with someone other than their spouse is involved.

Sister, you long ago lost all credibility. Remember when you claimed you came and went observing all at Shelton family gatherings and reporting it? a lie. You witnessed none of this and are the equivalent of  gossip rag writer, not a researcher.. Now you claim you had no contact with Linda and imply no information from her, but if that is true than you had to have just flat out made up so many things, [which we know you did] as you included so many details about her, and about Danny when both were allegedly alone (and not being witnessed by this Shelton you say is your source.) Just as you are doing in this latest edition... Here's one tiny example,  from blacksda, "the Unauthorized History of 3ABN" Chapter 11:

“Naive”, Part 1

Linda sits quietly in a chair, gazing out the living room window. Danny has just left the room. Her shoulders begins to shake as a single tear slowly makes its way down her cheek, as her lips begin to tremble she hears the roar of Danny's truck as he drives away... Soon the single tear is joined by many others, etching her delicate features like stained glass. Clasping her hands together she falls to her knees and begins to pray... At the same time Linda is praying, Danny is seated in his office viewing a website for private jets.

* * * * *

   

edit- corrected typos, grammar, and added clarification

[princessdi]

He said that with a straight face, George?   He is about right, though.  The church does, many times, resemble a restricted country club.......

It is so strange that we have wondered from the ideal of the first church where all were welcome.  All put in what they had, but got what they needed, no matter the amount they put in.  Now we call ourselves christians, and are so scared somebody we believe undeserving will get something...........That is just a puzzle to me.  How do we claim His Name, but at our very core of our beliefs be so selfish and un-Christ-like?

Things that make you go hmmmmmm.........but I digress...forgive me........


Ok but come on guys, this is at the bery least very entertaining!   Ok reading on..................keep writin' Sis!

I once asked that question of a pastor and he told me that I should consider the church as a club in which one joins in order to be a part of a group where the members think alike, and if I don't wish to conform, I should leave and find another club that conforms to what I want.

[Adam]

Another person grasping at "spitballs." Breezy, Junebug, "maybe a minor consented", writes the following:


 Re: The spirit of Sister's stories is... obvious
by Breezy » Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:44 am UTC

Cindy, thanks for your post. It seems AT is much like BSDA--as soon as the truth is told, you are banned. How is that for fairness and a desire to know the truth. Just as you ban people for coming over to your filty site to defend themselves? Honestly--I have come to a definite conclusion: the people over on AT are not very intelligent. Funny, coming from someone who believes molestation is alright if a minor consents. They do not check out to see if "these things are so" (that's Biblical you know) because if they did, they would find out there are a lot of lies being told there. Yes, many lies, and you are silly enough to believe them.

It is a LIE that Danny Shelton lines his pockets with people's donations. Really? Someone is paying for his fancy clothes, his livestalk, and his fake hair. (I don't know, how many times have I repeated this? a dozen? and they still repeat their lies) 3ABN is AUDITED and there are people in charge of opening up the mail and receiving the offerings. Are these the same people who are allowed to read private emails and allow others to do so as in the situation that happened to Grat? Has anyone from AT ever actually gone to 3ABN to check this out? Have they looked to see how 3ABN is run? It does not take a genious to figure out what kind of funny farm is going on over there. No need to visit to find that out.  They would see that the treasurer's make careful records that are audited carefully each year. BY LAW, your donations MUST go where you ask them to go--PERIOD END OF SENTENCE.  Yes, but as history has shown the Sheltons do not always abide by the law, so your argument is void.But that isn't the problem is it? No, the bare bones truth is that truth doesn't really matter to those at AdventTalk. They just like to revel in the dirtiest garbage they can make up about Danny Shelton, and anyone who works there or who supports them.Yes, we are just as dirty as those who defend him, aren't we? The worst of lies have been told about Brenda Walsh even in the face of her letter denying these things as lies. I still say something was goin on in the late hours, I am sure hey wasn't sitting around sipping tea all night! Yet, they still revel in it and discuss it. How DISRESPECTFUL can you people get?About as disgusting as your filthy post. How DARE you talk trash about those who are doing God's work.Pretending to do God's work, to cover up for the devilish acts. The TRASH you say about others behind their backs only boomerangs BACK onto YOURSELVES--making you look dirty and ugly. You can try to blacken someone's reputation but you can NEVER NEVER EVER hurt their characterI'm glad you believe that, but I don't.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Praise the Lord for THAT fact.

But the bottom line is this: It doesn't matter. None of it is hurting 3ABN.Really? then why is there still a law suit. Why are people such as yourself still over hear defending if everything is in the clear? At the Atlanta GC meetings, their booth has been one of the MOST popular ones--many people stopping by to meet 3ABN faithful workers or to buy something. How do I know? They've posted pictures with dozens and dozens of people crowding around so thickly you can't even see the booth. God is still blessing 3ABN and even MORE abundantly today. Souls are being won to the Lord. Many have become faithful in the remnant church. Praise the Lord!!!
Breezy
  
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:41 am UTC


--edited to add color--

[princessdi]

I know, I meant to answer this the other day.  

Now, I know that the SDA church makes plenty money from the writings of EGW.  However, if they go around handing out the books and selling them to anyone who will take them, why do you think that only supporting SDA members can look to EGW as a spiritual authority?  The two can be mutually exclusive.  Isn't that the point to get as many people as possible to see her as a spiritual authority, and just just the decased founder of a cult?  Let's make up our minds here.....

I'm always amazed when persons, who don't support the SDA church, still try to use Ellen White as an authority figure to bash those who do. If they believe in her, why not follow her teachings, come back into the fold, and be a real Seventh-day Adventist?

[princessdi]

See, I remember there was some controversy with that one also.  I didn't want to start anything......today..........Can't promise anyting for tomorrow.

LOL, thanks princessdi. But, although I have often been credited as the author of "The Te...", it was not my work. I only wrote "An Unauthorized History of 3ABN". Although both Jorgen VanBraun and I have somewhat similar writing styles and wrote on the same topic, I can not take credit for an others work. Perhaps one day Jorgen will write again, I would love to do a collaboration with him.

[Johann]

Chapter 2
An Inconvenient Truth
Continued...

For Linda events eventually escalate from emotional and mental abuse to physical abuse. Although physical abuse is often thought of as an enraged husband beating his wife, there is one form of abuse that is far more devastating for its victim physically, emotionally and spiritually: when what was once the joys of the marriage bed become an abusive act. What was once an expression of mutual love between a devoted married couple becomes a forced act of non-mutual consent for the animal gratification of one partner forced upon an unwilling spouse.  When a husband who has told his wife he wants to get rid of her and she refuses his sexual advances, he then forces himself on her physically and states that it is his “right” until they are divorced, an act that was once consider a joy becomes little more than the most vile crime that can be committed against a woman. In the midst of all this harassment, built entirely upon fabricated “evidence”, Linda asks Danny the one question she can not answer for herself, “Why are you treating me like this?” He answers, “Because I want you to get out!” Shattered by the brutality of her husbands response, she turns and walks away, barely able to discern her direction, as the tears stream from her eyes.

Dr. Abrahamsen explains that despite a request from the 3ABN Board Chairman, Walt Thompson, for all contact between he and Linda to terminate immediately. After a few weeks he allows it to continue: “At one point I had a conversation with Walt Thompson, Chairman of the Board of 3ABN. He asked me to stop all communication with Linda. This had also been communicated to Johann and Irmgard Thorvaldsson and others. I told him that it was obviously Danny’s plan to isolate Linda from everyone at a time when she needed help. To me it was the Christian thing to answer her phone calls and the only humane thing to do for someone who was in crisis.”

“Considering the urgency of the situation I allowed the conversations to resume. Linda knew, with her high profile status, that confiding with local people regarding these issues would be very bad for the ministry. I had given counsel to people in difficulty in the past and felt I could be helpful from a distance in this situation. I encouraged Linda to fight for her marriage and ministry many times. This she really did, but she often had to leave her home to find refuge at her daughter's apartment in Springfield, even in the middle of the night because of Danny's behavior. At times like these she was afraid of him. She always returned to her home after a couple of days seeking to try to mend the marriage, but Danny would not allow this.”

Some of you people with human feelings and intelligence will understand what Linda had to suffer when Walt and Danny did all they could to cut off any communication between Linda and her friends, and this did not only apply to friends in Norway but just as much to friends in the United States of America. In spite of what false claims and rumors say about her travels, Linda did not go to Norway until after the divorce.Then my wife, Irmgard, and Linda went blueberry picking in the woods. I think most of that time was spent on a woman to woman talk rather than searching for berries.

I made a call to Walt and asked him if he'd make sure Danny would not hurt Linda physically. At that time the 3ABN staff was attending the ASI convention. Walt was so taken by the exaltation of 3ABN by the ASI people that he could easily dismiss the idea that Linda would be in any danger. When I drove Linda to the airport she was still in fear of what would happen on her return. Not without a reason.

[tinka]

It is quite obvious that Linda must be a meek spirit even as portrayed in her character that everyone except the "clan" can view or knows of her.

This is why I sort of make this statement. If she would be the person that they make her out to be I can tell you that Danny boy   would have been terrified of her. She could have went to outside press!  Why did she not even have access or say about the funds that came in. That alone should tell anybody she was a very complying and her acts and thoughts were to the Lords work at 3abn.  

She could have connived to get her self a situation like Brandy did but this time one with "money too" and put the screws to the old wood head.  There is one incident in this whole saga that LS did and I would have done the same if I knew he was acting the way he was.  Going through all her stuff like a  mad dog in a meat house. She wanted to prove that he was doing just that and she did.   But thats coming just around the corner of outside press finding out about the dark closets of 3abn. They could have an "oil spill"....that they don't expect.

Corrected to one word added.

[Nosir Myzing]

Ian, you know who sister is?!!

We all do... I was just reading on the other forum, and it appears that Sister is going to have to wait for Ian to reply to her questions here. It appears Ian, (who is outed almost every time she posts here) broke the rules here in making that known again, and is being disciplined for "Posting inappropriate material". Her post was edited, and she is under a administrative ban. I am not complaining about that, nor was she, going by her post, I am just explaining why she appears to be ignoring people and not answering them here. And on a personal note, I do think that extremely ironic as it was sister who originally outed ian.

When I wrote "An Unauthorized History of 3ABN" I had no contact with Linda Shelton.  Part of my information did come from a Shelton, not one by marriage, but one from birth. Before you start surmising further, I am not referring to Steve Shelton, but another Shelton. Once more than one person has information it is no longer a secret.

* * *

Does anyone remember President Bill Clinton on nationwide television, looking directly into the camera and swearing, "I did not have sex with that woman!"

 

So much for credibility when sex with someone other than their spouse is involved.

Sister, you long ago lost all credibility. Remember when you claimed you came and went observing all at Shelton family gatherings and reporting it? a lie. You witnessed none of this and are the equivalent of  gossip rag writer, not a researcher.. Now you claim you had no contact with Linda and imply no information from her, but if that is true than you had to have just flat out made up so many things, [which we know you did] as you included so many details about her, and about Danny when both were allegedly alone (and not being witnessed by this Shelton you say is your source.) Just as you are doing in this latest edition... Here's one tiny example,  from blacksda, "the Unauthorized History of 3ABN" Chapter 11:

“Naive”, Part 1

Linda sits quietly in a chair, gazing out the living room window. Danny has just left the room. Her shoulders begins to shake as a single tear slowly makes its way down her cheek, as her lips begin to tremble she hears the roar of Danny's truck as he drives away... Soon the single tear is joined by many others, etching her delicate features like stained glass. Clasping her hands together she falls to her knees and begins to pray... At the same time Linda is praying, Danny is seated in his office viewing a website for private jets.

* * * * *

   

edit- corrected typos, grammar, and added clarification

[/quote]