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[princessdi]

I agree whole heartedly, Tanka!!  Well said, Johann...You MUST let me know the next time you are here visiting.........

[mrst53]

Let me be more clear. If I have served the Lord faithfully and one day I stub my toe and I swear and take the Lord's name in vain. If in the next instant, I die, before I have a chance to ask for forgiveness, have I lost my salvation?

[Sister]

Let me be more clear. If I have served the Lord faithfully and one day I stub my toe and I swear and take the Lord's name in vain. If in the next instant, I die, before I have a chance to ask for forgiveness, have I lost my salvation?

No, you have not lost your salvation...God is both just and merciful. Although He knows every act of your life, including the possible situation above, He looks at your life as a whole and sees the direction it has taken. In the example you have given above there is no opportunity to ask forgiveness for your sin. It is through the blood and sacrifice of Jesus Christ that we receive salvation. He without sin paid the price though giving his sinless life for our sinfull lives. When we accept Christ as our personal Savior, it is through his sacrifice that we can stand in the sight of God sinless. It is not by our works that we are saved---our works are evidence of the working of the Holy Spirit within our lives---we are saved through accepting the sacrifice that Jesus has made for us personally and acknowledging Him as our Savior.

[Bob Pickle]

mrst53, in your opinion, will King Saul be in heaven, or is he a lost man?

[mrst53]

Bob, that is a hard question. Since before the coming of Jesus, those in the Old Testament were under the Law. They were expected to follow the Law to the letter and to take sacrifices to the Temple, but I also think they could still have a relationship with God. David did, Jonah did, and Abraham did. Saul was hard headed, always wanting to what he wanted to do. Yet, David was always told, Saul was "God's annointed". Even when Saul sought out a medium and brought up Samuel. Samuel told him that the next day - he and his sons would be with him.  So if you take take the scriptures, saying over and over that Saul was annointed by God and if you take the medium scripture literally, then yes, King Saul would be in heaven.  I had to do some studying on that one. Been a long time since I studied the life of King Saul.

[Bob Pickle]

I think you are the first person I've asked that question of who has answered "Yes." Most people do not think he will be.

Since you answered yes, let me ask a different one: How about Judas? Do you think he will be in heaven?

[mrst53]

Bob,you really want me to study don't you? I don't think and never have that Judas believed Jesus would be condemned to death. I believe he thought Je sus would rise up against the Romans and set up a kingdom on earth. I just don't think he "got it" . At any rate once, he realized that Jesus was not going to do that, he returned the money to the priests and he was sorry for what he did-remorseful is what my translation says. Now, he committed suicide. In the Catholic Church  that is a grave sin. Others believe that is an "unpardonable sin" because you can't ask for forgiveness. Hmmmm... But now we know that those who commit suicide are mentally ill. God would not condemn those who mentally ill.Judas was so remorseful, so depressed at what he had done, he probably was mentally ill at the time. So I would say yes, I think Judas will be in heaven.  Had he not been sorry for turning Jesus in, that would be a different story, I think.

What do you think about King Saul and Judas?

I like discussing things with you.

[Adam]

However, if I remember correctly he hung himself. Will this disqualify his enterance into Heaven? Some may argue that suicide is suicide. How is one to know?

-Edited to clarify--

Bob,you really want me to study don't you? I don't think and never have that Judas believed Jesus would be condemned to death. I believe he thought Je sus would rise up against the Romans and set up a kingdom on earth. I just don't think he "got it" . At any rate once, he realized that Jesus was not going to do that, he returned the money to the priests and he was sorry for what he did-remorseful is what my translation says. Now, he committed suicide. In the Catholic Church  that is a grave sin. Others believe that is an "unpardonable sin" because you can't ask for forgiveness. Hmmmm... But now we know that those who commit suicide are mentally ill. God would not condemn those who mentally ill.Judas was so remorseful, so depressed at what he had done, he probably was mentally ill at the time. So I would say yes, I think Judas will be in heaven.  Had he not been sorry for turning Jesus in, that would be a different story, I think.

What do you think about King Saul and Judas?

I like discussing things with you.

[Murcielago]

The fate of Judas is not firmly established in the Bible, as there are conflicting accounts. Matthew 27:5 says that he returned the money to the temple and hanged himself, but Acts 1:18-19 tells a very different story saying that he used the money to buy a field where he fell down and suffered a ruptured abdomen that resulted in his death.

[mrst53]

Matthew 27:7 says the Priests took the money and bought the Potters field to bury the strangers in. You are right - something different in Acts- hmmm... but it says the one who bought the field - if Matthew is to be believed it was a Priest who bought the field, so maybe it was a Priest who ruptured his abdomen

[Adam]

Matthew 27:7 says the Priests took the money and bought the Potters field to bury the strangers in. You are right - something different in Acts- hmmm... but it says the one who bought the field - if Matthew is to be believed it was a Priest who bought the field, so maybe it was a Priest who ruptured his abdomen

That is an interesting thought!

[tinka]

 After Judas hung himself, and before buried the dogs ate him.. Jesus, knew Judas the same as he knew Pharaoh. Jesus gave every opportunity for both to make right choices. The Egyptians were swallowed up in the Red Sea. Scripture relates this too.


They hurried Jesus away with loud shouts of triumph; but their noise ceased for a time when they passed a retired place, and saw at the foot of a lifeless tree the dead body of Judas, who had betrayed Christ. It was a most revolting spectacle; his weight had broken the cord by which he had hung himself to the tree, and, in falling, his body had become horribly mangled, and was then being devoured by dogs. The mutilated remains were ordered to be buried at once, and the crowd passed on; but there was less noisy mockery, and many a pale face revealed the fearful thoughts within. Retribution seemed
                                                                            69
already to be visiting those who were guilty of the blood of Jesus.  {5Red 68.2}

[childoftheking]

I just looked up Matthew 26:24 and it sounds to me that Jesus was saying that it would be better that Judas had not been born. If Judas was going to go to heaven then would He have said that?

[Adam]

I just looked up Matthew 26:24 and it sounds to me that Jesus was saying that it would be better that Judas had not been born. If Judas was going to go to heaven then would He have said that?

Good point! I honestly believe that Judas will not be in Heaven.  Yes, he did seem emotional for what he did, but I feel that most of his emotions was not due to the act itself, nor of shame. I find it hard to believe that Judas repented for his sin. Which leads me to believe that he will not inherit the kingdom of God.

[Bob Pickle]

If Judas hung himself and then the rope broke and the body fell, his abdomen could rupture and the dogs could eat him. This is how Desire of Ages harmonizes the two accounts of Judas' death.

John 17:12  While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

2 Thessalonians 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

That's the only two passages where that phrase occurs. The first refers to Judas, and the second refers to Antichrist. The very phrase sounds like the one it is applied to is lost.