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[Bob Pickle]

Thus, cities may wear jewelry, according to that passage. But may people?

[Artiste]

Not a good defense for non-jewelry wearing.

I don't think God would have chosen to depict the young woman He was using as a metaphor for His chosen people in some inappropriate garb.

Since when does a city kick around in its blood as a baby?

[Bob Pickle]

He did tell the people to take it off at Sinai. And Jacob told his family to take it off too.

As far as the symbols God chooses to use when communicating truth, we do have the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.

Can you think of any other way to vividly describe a wealthy wife turned adulteress?

It is interesting that the baby in its blood grew up to adulthood and still wasn't wearing clothes, but was still bloody. Ezek. 16:7, 9. Clearly, God does not consider it appropriate for us to not wear clothes like that, yet He wove that description into His parable.

[Murcielago]

At Sinai he told them to take it off and melt it down to make the implements of the mobile temple, he didn't forbid them from wearing jewelry. Jacob told his family to remove the jewelry that was a part of the worship of other gods, but there was no law that he established against the wearing of jewelry. I have never seen any Biblical statement forbidding the wearing of jewelry. In fact the Bible promises crowns, which are the ultimate form of jewelry, to those who make it to heaven.

Whether or not the practice of wearing jewelry was accepted in Europe would seem to be a matter of tradition, as was the keeping of Sunday. And during the rennaisance period, two to three centuries prior to the French revolution, jewelry and fine clothes were a major part of life in much of Europe as depicted in the art and literature of England, France, Holland, the Italian states, Spain, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Portugal, Russia, Poland, Ukraine, Hungary, and the many countries and states preceding them.

[princessdi]

Forgive the confusion. Just to clarify, I don't believe the policy of not wearing jewelry is actually sound biblical doctrine as it is presented, and for the exact same reason you explained in your last post.  People are cherry picking the scriptures to make it fit their beliefs.

I don't believe it would be this much confusion if the doctrine was as biblicaly sound as the Bible.  There are too many instances int he Bible where the COI ore told to take their jewelry off for one occasion or another....meaning they wore it the rest of the time.  And NO the ring in the Prodigal Son parable was not only funtional..........LOL!!!!   It is just simply a non issues for me, definitely not of any salvific value.

So the Sabbath is both Biblical and SP, and the jewellry issue is SP and not Biblical. This begs the question, in terms of doctrine and salvational issues, how should the church define between what is Biblical; what is SP, but not Biblical; and what is neither Biblical nor SP, but is tradition? There are many churches, families and friendships that have been broken apart over the lack of broadly understood definition in these matters.

We may agree with the facts, as they stand., but I think we disagree with reason why the church cannot uphold this "doctrine".  I believe more of a corporate policy.  A feeble attempt to reproduce or imitate that which is supposed to begin inwardly.  As it stands now the policy only produced and lot of plain jane mean people. 

The reason they can't uphold the policy of jewelry, as they can the Sabbath is simply because it is not biblical.  They tried, and just could not support it.

[Bob Pickle]

At Sinai he told them to take it off and melt it down to make the implements of the mobile temple, he didn't forbid them from wearing jewelry.

Actually, that wasn't the reason they were told to take off their jewelry. See Ex. 33:4-6.

Jacob told his family to remove the jewelry that was a part of the worship of other gods, but there was no law that he established against the wearing of jewelry.

In that case earrings were in some way connected to idolatry.

The fact of the matter is that both historically and today, the wearing of jewelry cannot be separated from pagan worship. Out of respect toward God, we ought to therefore remove it.

I have never seen any Biblical statement forbidding the wearing of jewelry.

We have the statements by Peter and Paul telling us to avoid it, and Isaiah 4 calls the jewelry that was being worn "filth" and God says He is going to remove it by the spirit of judgment and burning.

Have you ever seen a biblical statement forbidding slavery? Perhaps for some topics we can't stop with simply looking for an outright, explicit prohibition.

In fact the Bible promises crowns, which are the ultimate form of jewelry, to those who make it to heaven.

I don't think wearing crowns then can be an excuse for ignoring the Bible's counsel and wearing nose rings now.

And during the rennaisance period, two to three centuries prior to the French revolution, jewelry and fine clothes were a major part of life in much of Europe as depicted in the art and literature of England, France, Holland, the Italian states, Spain, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Portugal, Russia, Poland, Ukraine, Hungary, and the many countries and states preceding them.

The pro-jewelry books I read stated that the common people of Europe were forbidden to wear jewelry until the French Revolution. One story was told of a French king that was having problems getting compliance, and so he exempted thieves and prostitutes from that prohibition. Immediately the jewelry disappeared.

[Bob Pickle]

It is just simply a non issues for me, definitely not of any salvific value.

How do we determine what is a salvation issue and what isn't?

Since eating a piece of fruit God said not to eat definitely was a salvation issue, I think it is inappropriate for any of us to label anything a non-salvation issue. The fact of the matter is that anytime God asks us to do or not do something and we disobey, whatever that issue is, be it great or small, it is potentially a salvation issue.

As far as jewelry goes, I don't see how anyone could make a case that God never asked Christians in general or Seventh-day Adventists in particular not to wear jewelry.

When a young lady begins to backslide, she will begin to put on ornaments, jewelry, and costly attire. These things are natural indications of the state of the heart.—The Finney Sermon Collection, vol. 2, p. 838.

But it is marvellous, while many are taking all the trouble they can to array this poor body, they have very few ornaments for their soul; they forgot to dress the soul. . . . really the children of God cannot now be told by outward appearance from the children of the devil, and they really ought to be; there should be some distinction between the one and the other; and although religion allows distinction of rank and dress, yet everything in the Bible cries out against our arraying ourselves, and making ourselves proud, by reason of the goodliness of our apparel. Some will say, "I wish you would leave that alone!" Of course you do, because it applies to yourself. But we let nothing alone which we believe to be in the Scriptures; and while I would not spare any man's soul, honesty to every man's conscience and honesty to myself demands, that I should always speak of that which I see to be an evil breaking out in the Church. We should always take care that in everything we keep as near as possible to the written Word.—Sermon Collection, vol. 1, pp. 516, 517.

If some people had a little more piety, they would not require such a showy dress; if they had a little more godliness, to set them off, they would have no need whatever to be always decorating themselves. The best ear-rings that a woman can wear, are the ear-rings of hearing the Word with attention. . . . the very best dress we can ever wear, is a garment wrought by the Holy Spirit, the garment of a consistent conduct. . . . It would be a good thing, perhaps, if we went back to Wesley's rule, to come out from the world in our apparel, and to dress as plainly and neatly as the Quakers . . . . If you want ornaments here they are. Here are jewels, rings, dresses, and all kinds of ornament; men and women, ye may dress yourselves up till ye shine like angels. How can you do it? By dressing yourselves out in benevolence, in love to the saints, in honesty and integrity, in uprightness, in godliness, in brotherly-kindness, in charity. These are the ornaments which angels themselves admire, and which even the word will admire; for men must give admiration to the man or the woman who is arrayed in the jewels of a holy life and godly conversation. I beseech you, brethren, "adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in all things."—Ibid.

What is then the meaning of these scriptures [1 Pet. 3:3, 4; 1 Tim. 2:9, 10]? What is it which they forbid? They manifestly forbid ordinary Christians, those in the lower or middle ranks of lift, to be adorned with gold, or pearls, or costly apparel.—Works of John Wesley, vol. 7, p. 30.

So wrote a prominent Presbyterian/Congregationalist, a prominent Baptist, and the founder of Methodism.

[tinka]

The scripture presents without doubt this conclusion:

You all and who all can wear or justify all the jewelry, gold,silver, pins, bleach jobs, naked clothes showing all including the back end of pants, strapless bearing all flesh in all directions as much as you want.  But you can't do it with out VANITY and VANITY will keep you from entering the gates. Put all on just one person to make it lustful and ya got a hussy.  So which one would you like to exclude to get you home scot free. (laugh) Take the least one for your sacrifice of likes. This was a no brainer for reasoning. A God fearing, intelligent person of God's will --will not jeopordize eternity for their selves and take others with them for justifying their likes and wants. This is brash and to the point of what is said in a better way and precise meaning the same thing Bibically and SP. One thing for sure "you got the freedom" to look how ever you want. I choose to walk as instructed by the "ONE" WHO GAVE ME ALL AND SACRIFISED EVERYTHING FOR ME. For love or for money...I am not stupid nor did I have to go to this extreme except for one thing. I do worry and care about the ones in this state and belief. and realize that most will not take the effort to read this below as they do not want their minds changed for their own will. How about social drinking next?

The apostle exhorted the women in the faith to be chaste in conversation and modest in dress and deportment. "Whose adorning," he counseled, "let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; but let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price."  {AA 523.1}
     The lesson applies to believers in every age. "By their fruits ye shall know them." Matthew 7:20. The inward adorning of a meek and quiet spirit is priceless. In the life of the true Christian the outward adorning is always in harmony with the inward peace and holiness. "If any man will come after Me," Christ said, "let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me." Matthew 16:24. Self-denial and sacrifice will mark the Christian's life. Evidence that the taste is converted will be seen in the dress of all who walk in the path cast up for the ransomed of the Lord.  {AA 523.2}    It is right to love beauty and to desire it; but God desires us to love and seek first the highest beauty, that which is imperishable. No outward adorning can compare in value or loveliness with that "meek and quiet spirit," the "fine
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linen, white and clean" (Revelation 19:14), which all the holy ones of earth will wear. This apparel will make them beautiful and beloved here, and will hereafter be their badge of admission to the palace of the King. His promise is, "They shall walk with Me in white: for they are worthy." Revelation 3:4.  {AA 523.3}


While at Brother Harris' I had an interview with a sister who wore gold, and yet professed to be looking for Christ's coming. We spoke of the express declarations of Scripture against it. But she referred to where Solomon was commanded to beautify the temple, and to the statement that the streets of the city of God were pure gold. She said that if we could improve our appearance by wearing gold so as to have influence in the world it was right. I replied that we were poor fallen mortals, and instead of decorating these bodies because Solomon's temple was gloriously adorned, we should remember our fallen condition, and that it cost the sufferings and death of the Son of God to redeem us. This should cause in us self-abasement. Jesus is our pattern. If he would lay aside his humiliation and sufferings, and cry, If any man will come after me, let him please himself, and enjoy the world, and he shall be my disciple, the multitude would believe, and follow him. But Jesus will come to us in no other character than the meek, crucified One. If we would be with him in heaven, we must be like him on earth. The world will claim its own, and whoever will overcome, must leave what belongs to it.  {LS80 250.1}

These souls brought forth fruit meet for repentance. They believed and were baptized, and rose to walk in newness of life--new creatures in Christ Jesus; not to fashion
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themselves according to the former lusts, but by the faith of the Son of God to follow in His steps, to reflect His character, and to purify themselves even as He is pure. The things they once hated they now loved, and the things they once loved they hated. The proud and self-assertive became meek and lowly of heart. The vain and supercilious became serious and unobtrusive. The profane became reverent, the drunken sober, and the profligate pure. The vain fashions of the world were laid aside. Christians sought not the
"outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; but . . . the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price" (1 Peter 3:3, 4). {NL 7.2}
     Revivals brought deep heart searching and humility. They were characterized by solemn, earnest appeals to the sinner, by yearning compassion for the purchase of the blood of Christ. Men and women prayed and wrestled with God for the salvation of souls. The fruits of such revivals were seen in souls who shrank not at self-denial and sacrifice, but rejoiced that they were counted worthy to suffer reproach and trial for the sake of Christ. Men beheld a transformation in the lives of those who had professed the name of Jesus. The community was benefited by their influence. . . . {NL 8.1}


     I was shown that some of the people of God imitate the fashions of the world, and are fast losing their peculiar, holy character, which should distinguish them as God's people. I
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was pointed back to God's ancient people, and then was led to compare their apparel with the mode of dress in these last days. What a difference! What a change! Then the women were not so bold as now. When they went in public they covered their face with a vail. In these last days fashions are shameful and immodest. They are noticed in prophecy. They were first brought in by a class over whom Satan has entire control, who "being past feeling (without any conviction of the Spirit of God), have given themselves over unto lasciviousness to work all uncleanness with greediness." If God's professed people had not departed greatly from him, there would now be a marked difference between their dress and that of the world. The small bonnets, exposing the face and head, show a lack of modesty. The hoops are a shame. The inhabitants of earth are growing more and more corrupt, and the line of distinction must be more plain between them and the Israel of God, or the curse which falls upon worldlings will fall upon God's professed people.  {2SG 227.1}     I was directed to the following scriptures. Said the angel, They are to instruct God's people. 1 Tim. ii, 9, 10. "In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broidered hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; but (which becometh women
                                                                            229
professing godliness) with good works." 1 Pet. iii, 3-5. "Whose adorning, let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; but let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. For after this manner in the old time, the holy women also who trusted in God, adorned themselves."  {2SG 228.1}
     Young and old, God is now testing you. You are deciding your own eternal destiny. Your pride, your love to follow the fashions of the world, your vain and empty conversation, your selfishness, are all put in the scale, and the weight of evil is fearfully against you. You are poor, and miserable, and blind, and naked. While evil is increasing and taking deep root, it is choking the good seed which has been sown in the heart, and soon the word will be spoken to the angels of God concerning you, as was given concerning Eli's house, that your sins shall not be purged with sacrifice nor offering for ever. Many, I saw, were flattering themselves that they were good Christians, who have not a single ray of light from Jesus. They know not what it is to be renewed by the grace of God. They have no living experience for themselves in the things of God. And I saw that the Lord was whetting his sword in heaven to cut them down. O that
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every cold, lukewarm professor could realize the clean work that God is about to make among his professed people. Dear friends, do not deceive yourselves concerning your condition. You cannot deceive God. Says the True Witness, "I know thy works." The third angel is leading up a people, step by step, higher and higher. At every step they will be tested.

[tinka]

What gamblers to take this on in defiance.  Your choice is plain. Gambers alone will be the first cut!! and you do not have to worry about the rest. So enjoy your jewelry! What a price to pay for that ring on the fing. You won't be taken it with ya either way!!

[Artiste]

The fact of the matter is that both historically and today, the wearing of jewelry cannot be separated from pagan worship.

I believe that you can find other items also that are connected with both pagan worship and the Lord's people.  What about the use of altars in Old Testament times?

I adorned you with jewelry. I put bracelets on your hands and a necklace around your neck. I put a ring in your nose, earrings on your ears...declares the sovereign Lord."

[Artiste]

The small bonnets, exposing the face and head, show a lack of modesty.

Since there is no clear Biblical injunction against wearing jewelry, only Spirit of Prophecy advice, why are we not preaching against exposing the face and head also, as mentioned above?

[tinka]

Ezekiel 16:9-14

"Then I bathed you in water, washed the blood off you, and anointed you with fragrant oil. I dressed you in embroidered clothing and put fine leather sandals on your feet. I wrapped you with fine linen and covered you with silk. I adorned you with jewelry. I put bracelets on your hands and a necklace around your neck. I put a ring in your nose, earrings on your ears, and a beautiful crown on your head. You were adorned with gold and silver, while your clothing was of fine linen, silk, and embroidery. You ate the finest flour, honey, and olive oil. You became extremely beautiful and attained the position of royalty. Your fame spread among the nations because of your beauty; your beauty was perfect because of the splendor which I bestowed on you, declares the sovereign Lord."

This meaning is different then you think. You are giving symbolism for another topic
Proverbs:6-9   To understand a proverb, and the interpretaion; the words of the wise and their dark sayings.
                     The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge" but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
                     My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:
                     For they shall be an  of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck.

Your quote is an Allegory of Unfaithful Israel.  Son of man cause Jerusalem to know her abominations.

The whole chapter needs to be read here to get the right context. It is not fair to pick one part and ignore the rest of the meaning or story.

[Artiste]

Already have read it, several times.

Tinka, how large of a bonnet do you customarily wear?

Please see your quote above about wearing too small a bonnet.

[tinka]

So what do you do with verse 13. I take this as symbolic of a kingdom and everything that they prospered in symbolism but they did what the latter verses then state. all of that was used to idolatry. and sisters sometimes means like cities or kingdoms.

and about the bonnet most people can think in terms of reasonability. The truth is I thought someone would come up with something like that if I put all her writings as stated from back then. I almost took it out but wanted to see if I was not right about a comeback and sure enough. (smile)

[Artiste]

So we cannot just take SOP writings at face value?

We must pick and choose what is reasonable or not?

Who's reason is going to take precedence?