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[Bob Pickle]

Cindy, if 3ABN ever gets sued over their extreme negligence, I sure hope they don't retain you as their defense attorney.

You in fact don't have any idea if they took precautions due to the allegations or not.

Both the elementary school principal and the local pastor seemed clueless that there was an alleged pedophile named Tommy Shelton around. Thus, based on what they themselves told me, no precautions were taken other than to try to shut up the ones who were concerned through threats and intimidation.

Why can't you comprehend that 3ABN did not engage in any cover up, especially of things which were not even known such as the two allegations leading to Tommy's arrest.

And how do you know that they weren't known? How do you know? Dryden's 2003 action items specifically referred to Tommy's "deceit and inappropriate behavior" in Virginia. How do you know what specific incidents that was referring to?

And how do you know that Danny didn't know about it, even without the action items?

You have only Dryden's claim about that.

I also have Roger's claim about that, and I am sure Duane would correct the time line if it was wrong. You're grasping at straws with your speculation.

Whereas you also have the claim that

The allegations against Tommy were made ..years ago. They were reported to the proper authorities. No physical actions ever occured. Tommy appologized to the kids and offered recompence. The DA said there was no case. No restrictions were ever imposed. Tommy is employed by 3abn with full board approval, knowing the facts.

The board apparently checked into and verified those facts, ....

Says who? If Walt never even talked to any of the alleged victims, how could the board he was chair of have ever checked into and verified the lie that the allegations were all 30 years old?

... did you ever bother to check with the DA, to check with the authorities and even try to understand the facts from all those years ago in regards to what was reported and why no charges were ever filed?

Your question is irrelevant. There are many allegations of child molestation from multiple states. Whether charges were filed or not is irrelevant to the question of civil liability, the question I raised in 2006, and the question I got sued for asking as 3ABN and Danny Shelton endeavored to cover up those allegations by shutting me up.

The 3ABN Board as a body joined with the unethical Danny Shelton in trying to cover up the child molestation allegations by voting to sue me because I had reported on those allegations. For the good of 3ABN, all those involved in such reprehensible actions should be shown the door. They should also be held accountable by their local churches.

Let the pope get caught covering up pedophilia, but let not one Seventh-day Adventist ever be caught endangering children by so doing.

[childoftheking]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/03/30/eveningnews/main6348223.shtml

[ex3abnemployee]

The unnamed Shelton in question does exist. I know him personally.

But you didn't hear that accusation from him, nor would you.  Are you really posting this to validate Sister's ugly accusation? Please tell me you aren't.

I'm posting it because it's the truth, and how do you know whether or not I have heard an accusation from him?

Ok, I meant no offense,  let me rephrase that to a simple yes or no question.

Have you ever heard it from him (the allegation that he was sexually molested by Tommy Shelton)  in all the time that you have known him?

Yes___   No____  

Did you actually think I was going to answer that?

Yes____ No____

[Cindy]

The unnamed Shelton in question does exist. I know him personally.

But you didn't hear that accusation from him, nor would you.  Are you really posting this to validate Sister's ugly accusation? Please tell me you aren't.

I'm posting it because it's the truth, and how do you know whether or not I have heard an accusation from him?

Ok, I meant no offense,  let me rephrase that to a simple yes or no question.

Have you ever heard it from him (the allegation that he was sexually molested by Tommy Shelton)  in all the time that you have known him?

Yes___   No____  

Did you actually think I was going to answer that?

Yes____ No____

Yes, I did.  Why wouldn't you? Aren't we all interested in the truth here? You jumped in fast enough to reply to sisters claims that an unnamed shelton was molested and claimed he existed as you knew him.

Let me ask you something else here as long as we are on the subject of accusations against TS related to the allegation he's a pedophile.

You were a member of his Church from the time you were about seven yrs old, right? You attended the Church school there where he was, became close as a minor, and were counseled by him, and even went on camping trips with him.  You objected to people saying you were molested by him as an adult on BSDA, claiming you had never said that. I understand that,  but in all the time while you knew him as a minor, from 7 yrs old till you turned 18, did he ever molest or abuse you?

[ex3abnemployee]

The unnamed Shelton in question does exist. I know him personally.

But you didn't hear that accusation from him, nor would you.  Are you really posting this to validate Sister's ugly accusation? Please tell me you aren't.

I'm posting it because it's the truth, and how do you know whether or not I have heard an accusation from him?

Ok, I meant no offense,  let me rephrase that to a simple yes or no question.

Have you ever heard it from him (the allegation that he was sexually molested by Tommy Shelton)  in all the time that you have known him?

Yes___   No____  

Did you actually think I was going to answer that?

Yes____ No____

Yes, I did.  Why wouldn't you? Aren't we all interested in the truth here? You jumped in fast enough to reply to sisters claims that an unnamed shelton was molested and claimed he existed as you knew him.

Let me ask you something else here as long as we are on the subject of accusations against TS related to the allegation he's a pedophile.

You were a member of his Church from the time you were about seven yrs old, right? You attended the Church school there where he was, became close as a minor, and were counseled by him, and even went on camping trips with him.  You objected to people saying you were molested by him as an adult on BSDA, claiming you had never said that. I understand that,  but in all the time while you knew him as a minor, from 7 yrs old till you turned 18, did he ever molest or abuse you?

Again, I'm not going to answer that, other than to say that I never said I went on camping trips with him. You're asking questions that I just don't feel the need to answer on the board. BTW, I won't answer over PM, either.

[Cindy]

The unnamed Shelton in question does exist. I know him personally.

But you didn't hear that accusation from him, nor would you.  Are you really posting this to validate Sister's ugly accusation? Please tell me you aren't.

I'm posting it because it's the truth, and how do you know whether or not I have heard an accusation from him?

Ok, I meant no offense,  let me rephrase that to a simple yes or no question.

Have you ever heard it from him (the allegation that he was sexually molested by Tommy Shelton)  in all the time that you have known him?

Yes___   No____  

Did you actually think I was going to answer that?

Yes____ No____

Yes, I did.  Why wouldn't you? Aren't we all interested in the truth here? You jumped in fast enough to reply to sisters claims that an unnamed shelton was molested and claimed he existed as you knew him.

Let me ask you something else here as long as we are on the subject of accusations against TS related to the allegation he's a pedophile.

You were a member of his Church from the time you were about seven yrs old, right? You attended the Church school there where he was, became close as a minor, and were counseled by him, and even went on camping trips with him.  You objected to people saying you were molested by him as an adult on BSDA, claiming you had never said that. I understand that,  but in all the time while you knew him as a minor, from 7 yrs old till you turned 18, did he ever molest or abuse you?

Again, I'm not going to answer that, other than to say that I never said I went on camping trips with him. You're asking questions that I just don't feel the need to answer on the board. BTW, I won't answer over PM, either.

I am sorry, I merely assumed -wrongly as it turns out- that the overnight trips you took with him were camping trips as I believe it was said that Tommy occasionally did that somewhere else.

You don't have to answer questions -from me... In any case you already answered my questions, in your email to Bob Pickle which has been published and filed in court, and. I just wanted to know if you were going to change that story now, or if there was cause to, so that all the facts are on the table.

Duane Clem:

...Tommy Shelton was my pastor for many years at the Ezra Church of God in West Frankfort, IL. I began attending with my mother, sister and two brothers around 1974 or so, and my father became a Christian and began coming with us shortly after I graduated from high school in 1984. Tommy and I were never really close until I began attending the Christian school our church operated. Over the next few years, we would spend a lot of time talking, as I was dealing with depression issues and he was counseling me. When the General Assembly of the Church of God in Illinois decided to suspend Tommy's ministerial credentials in 1985, I was one of several who wrote a letter in his defense. I was also questioned by a detective at the West Frankfort Police Department. I had been on a few overnight trips with him, and gave testimony that nothing had happened that would substantiate the allegations being made against him. At the time, this was true...

[princessdi]

No, no, Cindy. I am not purely taking Bob's word on anything.  I have not forgotten that there was an admission of guilt in the form of at least one letter of apology.  His family knew, , his brother knew and still allowed him to be far too close to other people's children.  I have also not forgotten that initially TS/DS supporters gave that

I am just curious, under what circumstances would you find TS not guilty if he was having sex or any inappropriate sexual behavior with a minor?  I guess I am asking because you said that I didn't know the details, and in my mind, if he has already admitted to this wrong doing, then there are no mitigating circumstances under which he would be found not guilty by the law.  Plus having the authorities finding enough reason for arresting and chargin him after their extensive investigation.  That is not just Bob's word.  Truth is even if he considered the minor as "consenting"(which some of these poor misguided souls do), the law doesn't see it that way.  He was the grown up and should have known better.

Diane,

3ABN_defender can't reply here at the moment... for reasons posted elsewhere. I am not sure when or if he will ever be back.

I would like to say I think you have misunderstood..  Not one defender here has said Tommy is either guilty or innocent. That is for the courts to decide, right? What was being defended was his right to a fair trial and to face his accusers and give a defense before being judged. I think all have that right, even though few here have given him that right. I know for a fact he was never questioned once by the Detectives investigating and still hasn't been.

Sadly, you seem to have judged Tommy along with the rest here, but really you don't know all the details nor anything beyond what mostly Bob Pickle and Glenn Dryden have claimed, but if you are so sure and can pronounce Tommy guilty without hearing his defense, or even hearing the proven facts against him as established in a court of law, and not by a Bob Pickle? Then cast that first stone, or light the fire. That's all most of this forum is about anyway. If those stones get cast my way for trying to do and say the right thing, oh well...

What I am about is 3ABN in this instance.  Pickle has falsely accused them in all of this and has used the accusations and allegations against Tommy to do that, many of those things he has mixed up or doesn't understand. . For example he's all along claimed that the 3ABN board should have in 2003 questioned one of the people making allegations as he wrote a letter to Tommy in 2003. He claimed Danny knew this and covered it up when he claimed that the allegations were all old. Pickle is wrong, and not just in that.  Roger Clem didn't write his letter in 2003, he didn't write it until at least 17 mos later There is more, much more, and some is just lies, but the point is the truth is important for all involved..


~ Cindy

[Cindy]

No, no, Cindy. I am not purely taking Bob's word on anything.  I have not forgotten that there was an admission of guilt in the form of at least one letter of apology.  His family knew, , his brother knew and still allowed him to be far too close to other people's children.  I have also not forgotten that initially TS/DS supporters gave that

Yes both sides agree it was wrong. The apology was to Duane Clem but it wasn't concerning anything which occured when Duane was underage, Duane was 19 or 20, so the apology is not really applicable to the allegation that Tommy is a pedophile or the allegations that he sexualy molested children or minors, or the claim that TS ever admitted to molesting or abusing a minor/child.

I am just curious, under what circumstances would you find TS not guilty if he was having sex or any inappropriate sexual behavior with a minor?  

IF he was, or did, then as far as I am concerned there is no excuse or circumstance which would justify or excuse it that I can think of..

I guess I am asking because you said that I didn't know the details, and in my mind, if he has already admitted to this wrong doing, then there are no mitigating circumstances under which he would be found not guilty by the law.  Plus having the authorities finding enough reason for arresting and chargin him after their extensive investigation.  That is not just Bob's word.  Truth is even if he considered the minor as "consenting"(which some of these poor misguided souls do), the law doesn't see it that way.  He was the grown up and should have known better.[/color]

Well the deal is he has been accused by Pickle and Dryden of things from his past which were already investigated by both the church of God and the Police, and no charges were filed. The DA said "No case"

He has been accused by them also of other allegations where no victim has ever made a statement or filed a complaint, and for which we only have their word.

As far as the current situation , well he has been charged, but that thorough investigation never included questioning him. The detective issued the warrants but they didn't have to go through the DA in Virginia.
So yes there are charges, but what the case and evidence against him is remains to be seen, and what his story and defense is remains to be seen, and what the court decides and rules also remains to be seen.

I myself have taken a wait and see approach to it all. I am not saying one way or another as I believe the truth will be established and justice done.

I have said all along that the authorities should handle it- as in both his church and civil law enforcement and social services. That is the only way the truth of it all is ever going to be established imo.

anyway, my two cents.

[princessdi]

Cndy, I have to go with Bob on this one.  In Calfiornia I know that teachers, pastors, etc. are responsible as reporting parties, and if it is found out that they didn't report they are in big trouble.  If the law is the same in IL, then Danny placed not only the children in jeopardy, but also the careers of the reporting parties that worked at 3ABN.  This is far more than some dirty little family secret.

Also, I don't believe you can use the excuse that this is just Bob's or Mr. Dryden's word any more.  The authorities have acted on this.  If anything, in this case, they are close to being right.

[Cindy]

Cndy, I have to go with Bob on this one.  In Calfiornia I know that teachers, pastors, etc. are responsible as reporting parties, and if it is found out that they didn't report they are in big trouble.  If the law is the same in IL, then Danny placed not only the children in jeopardy, but also the careers of the reporting parties that worked at 3ABN.  This is far more than some dirty little family secret.

Also, I don't believe you can use the excuse that this is just Bob's or Mr. Dryden's word any more.  The authorities have acted on this.  If anything, in this case, they are close to being right.

Well even if Danny was a Pastor (he's not) Danny and 3ABN had nothing to report. The incidents they looked into which were at the Church of God, not 3abn, were already reported, investigated, and as I said "no case". Nothing occured or happened in their care or under their watch. In fact, not just 3ABN, but no SDA conference Church or membership has any alleged victims of child molestation by Tommy Shelton, nor any complaints filed by any adult on behalf of a minor or child. Nothing.

Pastor Dryden, and Pastor Bob are the ones who claim to have all the facts but never reported it, Diane.

And even weirder as this all originated with Dryden (who sent all to Pickle) even The Church of God which Dryden pastored and where the newer, non inreported, non investigated alleged incidents were supposed to have occured in Virginia didn't have the info.

Pickle posted their board minute report, a meeting about 3 or 4 years after their Pastor (Dryden) had contacted 3ABN about Tommy, and they ( the VA church of God) consulted a lawyer and decided under his advice to treat all their Pastor was saying ( and Pickle was repeating and publishing)as hearsay, until and if they received a statement or complaint from an alleged victim.

I have been looking for that document and where it is filed and can't find it at the moment.

The 2 with the complaints against Tommy now apparently never made a statement or complaint , according to the new report till 2008.

[princessdi]

Ok, but TS was not arrested for having sex with a 19, 20 year old, but for pedophilia.  And even in Duane's case, TS was a grown and married pastor, so he was just wrong out of the gate because is all those instances, he should have known better.  At the very least, he abused his position of authority.  So, Duane still has a point, even if you all want to only address once he became a consenting adult.  However, I believe that is part of the issue, right?

[princessdi]

Actually, the reporting comes in even before something happens.  It is also a preventative measure.  As Bob says, I don't believe the resident risk management entity at 3ABN would have wanted to take on that risk.  Lots of pedophiles have gone places with children and thankfully, nothing has happened, but who wants to knowingly take that chance?  Would you? I wouldn't.

And you are correct, if indeed, Bob(who somebody said is or was a pastor) and Pastor Dryden( and anyone else) knew these facts and did not report, they are also in violation, and party to any incident that occurred after their knowledge.

Well even if Danny was a Pastor (he's not) Danny and 3ABN had nothing to report. Nothing occured or happened in their care or under their watch. In fact, not just 3ABN, but no SDA conference Church or membership has any alleged victims of Tommy Shelton, nor complaints filed by any adult on behalf of a minor or child. Nothing.

Pastor Dryden, and Pastor Bob are the ones who claim to have all the facts but never reported it, Diane.

And even weirder as this all originated with Dryden (who sent all to Pickle) even The Church of God which Dryden pastored and where the alleged incidents were supposed to have occured in Virginia didn't have the info.

Pickle posted their board minute report, a meeting about 3 or 4 years after their Pastor (Dryden) had contacted 3ABN about Tommy, and they ( the VA church of God) consulted a lawyer and decided under his advice to treat all their Pastor was saying ( and Pickle was repeating and publishing)as hearsay, until and if they received a statement or complaint from an alleged victim.

I have been looking for that document and where it is filed and can't find it at the moment.

The 2 with the complaints against Tommy now apparently never made a statement or complaint , according to the new report till 2008.

[ex3abnemployee]

You don't have to answer questions -from me... In any case you already answered my questions, in your email to Bob Pickle which has been published and filed in court, and. I just wanted to know if you were going to change that story now, or if there was cause to, so that all the facts are on the table.

And just what is that supposed to mean? You really have a sick mind, you know that?

[Cindy]

Ok, but TS was not arrested for having sex with a 19, 20 year old, but for pedophilia.  And even in Duane's case, TS was a grown and married pastor, so he was just wrong out of the gate because is all those instances, he should have known better.  At the very least, he abused his position of authority.  So, Duane still has a point, even if you all want to only address once he became a consenting adult.  However, I believe that is part of the issue, right?

Ok, now I just give up.


Everyone says Tommy's relationship with Duane was wrong on all accounts, even Tommy says that, but it has nothing to do with child molestation nor Tommy being a pedophile. The Duane thing has been used all along to cloud the issues and justify the allegations of child molestation against Tommy and to claim that Tommy admitted he was guilty of child molestation.. It needs to stop! It is a totally separate issue.

Yes he is charged now,but chargedt does not equal being guilty, believe me I know.

I was in an abusive marriage for 20 years and it was hard to escape when I called the police for help and was arrested myself as my husband lied, even when I had all the bruises etc.. My neighbors called and again I was arrested.

I had done Nothing! In one case it was dropped before I ever went to court, in another it was thrown out of court and dismissed at the arraignment.

These things happen.

Now people can jump up and say I was arrested for assault and accuse me all they want, but that doesn't make me guilty.   ****************************************

but anyway-- believe as you choose. I have nothing else to say, except if we live in an age where a socalled investigation and charge indicates guilt before the accused is even heard from or a defence allowed and offered,then we have returned to the dark ages and inquisitions. I want no part of it.



Edited to remove inappropriate content. 

[ex3abnemployee]

Ok, but TS was not arrested for having sex with a 19, 20 year old, but for pedophilia.  And even in Duane's case, TS was a grown and married pastor, so he was just wrong out of the gate because is all those instances, he should have known better.  At the very least, he abused his position of authority.  So, Duane still has a point, even if you all want to only address once he became a consenting adult.  However, I believe that is part of the issue, right?

Ok, now I just give up.


Everyone says Tommy's relationship with Duane was wrong on all accounts, even Tommy says that, but it has nothing to do with child molestation nor Tommy being a pedophile. The Duane thing has been used all along to cloud the issues and justify the allegations of child molestation against Tommy and to claim that Tommy admitted he was guilty of child molestation.. It needs to stop! It is a totally separate issue.

Yes he is charged now,but chargedt does not equal being guilty, believe me I know.

I was in an abusive marriage for 20 years and it was hard to escape when I called the police for help and was arrested myself as my husband lied, even when I had all the bruises etc.. My neighbors called and again I was arrested.

I had done Nothing! In one case it was dropped before I ever went to court, in another it was thrown out of court and dismissed at the arraignment.

These things happen.

Now people can jump up and say I was arrested for assault and accuse me all they want, but that doesn't make me guilty.   ****************************************

but anyway-- believe as you choose. I have nothing else to say, except if we live in an age where a socalled investigation and charge indicates guilt before the accused is even heard from or a defence allowed and offered,then we have returned to the dark ages and inquisitions. I want no part of it.



Edited to remove inappropriate content. 

I'll tell you what needs to stop. It's you and the rest of your whole wad defending this man. You claim you have never met him or any of the victims. Fine, Then DROP IT! I, for one, am sick and tired of your word games and fact twisting. You're here for one reason and one reason only, and that's to stir the pot. Well, you have your own site where all that kind of bilge seems to be welcome, so go do it there. Your defense of wrongdoing while all the time trying to convince everyone you just "want what's right" is disgusting.