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[princessdi]

I'm confused, too.  Did someone ever say whether the Bible says Moses had a first wife who was murdered or not?   

There are some strange things circulatin'.  I heard a good one....LOL!!....that Joseph(Jesus' earthly father" was 18 when he married Mary(who was actually probably early or mid teenage).  That is why we need to read and study for ourselves........just sad.............

[GRAT]

If he is any kind of man he will save his victim's the pain and agony of reliving the abuse and save his family the pain of having to hear the details in court and also the American Taxpayers the expense of a trial and just simply plead guilty.  Way, way too many victims over the years to plead "not guilty".  MY opinion.

[Cindy]

Diane,

3ABN_defender can't reply here at the moment... for reasons posted elsewhere. I am not sure when or if he will ever be back.

I would like to say I think you have misunderstood..  Not one defender here has said Tommy is either guilty or innocent. That is for the courts to decide, right? What was being defended was his right to a fair trial and to face his accusers and give a defense before being judged. I think all have that right, even though few here have given him that right. I know for a fact he was never questioned once by the Detectives investigating and still hasn't been.

Sadly, you seem to have judged Tommy along with the rest here, but really you don't know all the details nor anything beyond what mostly Bob Pickle and Glenn Dryden have claimed, but if you are so sure and can pronounce Tommy guilty without hearing his defense, or even hearing the proven facts against him as established in a court of law, and not by a Bob Pickle? Then cast that first stone, or light the fire. That's all most of this forum is about anyway. If those stones get cast my way for trying to do and say the right thing, oh well...

What I am about is 3ABN in this instance.  Pickle has falsely accused them in all of this and has used the accusations and allegations against Tommy to do that, many of those things he has mixed up or doesn't understand. . For example he's all along claimed that the 3ABN board should have in 2003 questioned one of the people making allegations as he wrote a letter to Tommy in 2003. He claimed Danny knew this and covered it up when he claimed that the allegations were all old. Pickle is wrong, and not just in that.  Roger Clem didn't write his letter in 2003, he didn't write it until at least 17 mos later There is more, much more, and some is just lies, but the point is the truth is important for all involved..


~ Cindy

[Cindy]

Sister...think you have any credibility at all after all your boasting about never being identified, and then having Danny confront your husband at the ASI convention about how disappointed he was in you both that you would spread such lies. Even going so far as to you and Johann accusing him of murdering his first wife.

I think we all remember that amazing point when Danny Shelton said in court that Moses' first wife had been murdered.  See below.

Taken from 3ABN's Property Tax Case, Danny Shelton, witness, September 23, 2002, as reproduced on the Save-3ABN site:

Q. Good morning, Mr. Shelton.
A. Good morning.
Q. Can you tell us your full name and address for the record this morning?
A.. Danny Lee Shelton. I live at ****************.

And later, while giving testimony as to his work and position at 3ABN:

Suddenly I thought about Moses and the bible
who had been away from the people for 40 years, was 80
years old when he took the call and his previous wife
had been murdered and yet God used him.

I was confused by this.

Where in the Bible does it say that Moses had a previous wife that was murdered?

 Sometimes, especially when people don't speak clearly there are errors in transcripts. I know there have been several in the lawsuit, that even Pickle brought up. It makes much more sense if you consider that what was being conveyed about Moses was that in his previous *life* he was a *murderer*

It is also way more merciful and compassionate then claiming it is evidence he murdered his first wife...

[Snoopy]

 

HYPOCRITE!  Cindy, I dare you to go back and review everything on your smut site and then see if you can honestly stand by these statements.  You certainly have a double standard.  You know EXACTLY what I am talking about.

But thank you, as you and your multiple personalities here are just adding fuel to my case.

As for 3D not being able to respond here, I'm willing to bet you will do a superb job of answering for him...wink, wink...

Diane,

3ABN_defender can't reply here at the moment... for reasons posted elsewhere. I am not sure when or if he will ever be back.

I would like to say I think you have misunderstood..  Not one defender here has said Tommy is either guilty or innocent. That is for the courts to decide, right? What was being defended was his right to a fair trial and to face his accusers and give a defense before being judged. I think all have that right, even though few here have given him that right. I know for a fact he was never questioned once by the Detectives investigating and still hasn't been.

Sadly, you seem to have judged Tommy along with the rest here, but really you don't know all the details nor anything beyond what mostly Bob Pickle and Glenn Dryden have claimed, but if you are so sure and can pronounce Tommy guilty without hearing his defense, or even hearing the proven facts against him as established in a court of law, and not by a Bob Pickle? Then cast that first stone, or light the fire. That's all most of this forum is about anyway. If those stones get cast my way for trying to do and say the right thing, oh well...

What I am about is 3ABN in this instance.  Pickle has falsely accused them in all of this and has used the accusations and allegations against Tommy to do that, many of those things he has mixed up or doesn't understand. . For example he's all along claimed that the 3ABN board should have in 2003 questioned one of the people making allegations as he wrote a letter to Tommy in 2003. He claimed Danny knew this and covered it up when he claimed that the allegations were all old. Pickle is wrong, and not just in that.  Roger Clem didn't write his letter in 2003, he didn't write it until at least 17 mos later There is more, much more, and some is just lies, but the point is the truth is important for all involved..


~ Cindy

[Cindy]

The unnamed Shelton in question does exist. I know him personally.

But you didn't hear that accusation from him, nor would you.  Are you really posting this to validate Sister's ugly accusation? Please tell me you aren't.

[Cindy]

Bite me..
Ian, foul language and crass references to your nether regions are absolutely forbidden on this forum. You should go wash your mouth out with soap. You will keep a civil tongue when speaking here, or you will not speak here at all. You will not be warned again.

 

HYPOCRITE!  Cindy, I dare you to go back and review everything on your smut site and then see if you can honestly stand by these statements.  You certainly have a double standard.  You know EXACTLY what I am talking about.

But thank you, as you and your multiple personalities here are just adding fuel to my case.

As for 3D not being able to respond here, I'm willing to bet you will do a superb job of answering for him...wink, wink...

Diane,

3ABN_defender can't reply here at the moment... for reasons posted elsewhere. I am not sure when or if he will ever be back.

I would like to say I think you have misunderstood..  Not one defender here has said Tommy is either guilty or innocent. That is for the courts to decide, right? What was being defended was his right to a fair trial and to face his accusers and give a defense before being judged. I think all have that right, even though few here have given him that right. I know for a fact he was never questioned once by the Detectives investigating and still hasn't been.

Sadly, you seem to have judged Tommy along with the rest here, but really you don't know all the details nor anything beyond what mostly Bob Pickle and Glenn Dryden have claimed, but if you are so sure and can pronounce Tommy guilty without hearing his defense, or even hearing the proven facts against him as established in a court of law, and not by a Bob Pickle? Then cast that first stone, or light the fire. That's all most of this forum is about anyway. If those stones get cast my way for trying to do and say the right thing, oh well...

What I am about is 3ABN in this instance.  Pickle has falsely accused them in all of this and has used the accusations and allegations against Tommy to do that, many of those things he has mixed up or doesn't understand. . For example he's all along claimed that the 3ABN board should have in 2003 questioned one of the people making allegations as he wrote a letter to Tommy in 2003. He claimed Danny knew this and covered it up when he claimed that the allegations were all old. Pickle is wrong, and not just in that.  Roger Clem didn't write his letter in 2003, he didn't write it until at least 17 mos later There is more, much more, and some is just lies, but the point is the truth is important for all involved..


~ Cindy

[Snoopy]

No, thank you.  Did I hit a nerve?

I was tempted to delete this post, but I think I'll leave it here so all can see your true colors.

Toodles...

Bite me..

And Snoopy is right.

 

HYPOCRITE!  Cindy, I dare you to go back and review everything on your smut site and then see if you can honestly stand by these statements.  You certainly have a double standard.  You know EXACTLY what I am talking about.

But thank you, as you and your multiple personalities here are just adding fuel to my case.

As for 3D not being able to respond here, I'm willing to bet you will do a superb job of answering for him...wink, wink...

Diane,

3ABN_defender can't reply here at the moment... for reasons posted elsewhere. I am not sure when or if he will ever be back.

I would like to say I think you have misunderstood..  Not one defender here has said Tommy is either guilty or innocent. That is for the courts to decide, right? What was being defended was his right to a fair trial and to face his accusers and give a defense before being judged. I think all have that right, even though few here have given him that right. I know for a fact he was never questioned once by the Detectives investigating and still hasn't been.

Sadly, you seem to have judged Tommy along with the rest here, but really you don't know all the details nor anything beyond what mostly Bob Pickle and Glenn Dryden have claimed, but if you are so sure and can pronounce Tommy guilty without hearing his defense, or even hearing the proven facts against him as established in a court of law, and not by a Bob Pickle? Then cast that first stone, or light the fire. That's all most of this forum is about anyway. If those stones get cast my way for trying to do and say the right thing, oh well...

What I am about is 3ABN in this instance.  Pickle has falsely accused them in all of this and has used the accusations and allegations against Tommy to do that, many of those things he has mixed up or doesn't understand. . For example he's all along claimed that the 3ABN board should have in 2003 questioned one of the people making allegations as he wrote a letter to Tommy in 2003. He claimed Danny knew this and covered it up when he claimed that the allegations were all old. Pickle is wrong, and not just in that.  Roger Clem didn't write his letter in 2003, he didn't write it until at least 17 mos later There is more, much more, and some is just lies, but the point is the truth is important for all involved..


~ Cindy

[Bob Pickle]

Sadly, you seem to have judged Tommy along with the rest here, but really you don't know all the details nor anything beyond what mostly Bob Pickle and Glenn Dryden have claimed, but if you are so sure and can pronounce Tommy guilty without hearing his defense, or even hearing the proven facts against him as established in a court of law, and not by a Bob Pickle?

After all this time, you still don't get it? Call risk management for any school or denomination out there. Ask them, "If I hear that someone has accused someone of child molestation, but the person has never been charged or convicted, I can't be sued if a child gets molested? Or if I do get sued, I can't lose, right?"

Whether Tommy is convicted or acquited is utterly irrelevant as far as Danny Shelton and 3ABN's incompetence in this matter is concerned!

For example he's all along claimed that the 3ABN board should have in 2003 questioned one of the people making allegations as he wrote a letter to Tommy in 2003. He claimed Danny knew this and covered it up when he claimed that the allegations were all old. Pickle is wrong, and not just in that.  Roger Clem didn't write his letter in 2003, he didn't write it until at least 17 mos later

The letter I have always referred to is Glenn Dryden's May 2003 letter to Walt Thompson, which invited Walt to contact the alleged victims, their families, and the ordaining organizations. Walt inexcusably failed to contact any of them.

One of those alleged victims was Roger Clem, who came forward before Dryden wrote his letter. When Roger wrote his letter to Tommy is irrelevant.

[Bob Pickle]

Sometimes, especially when people don't speak clearly there are errors in transcripts. I know there have been several in the lawsuit, that even Pickle brought up. It makes much more sense if you consider that what was being conveyed about Moses was that in his previous *life* he was a *murderer*

Why don't you get specific, and state what you think the sentence should be. It is easier to suggest a few different words than to suggest what the actual sentence should be. After stating the full sentence, then compare it with the transcript as is, and see how many syllables have to be added in one place or deleted from another place in order for your suggestion to work.

Also, it would be helpful if you could cite where Danny referred to someone's previous career as a "previous life." Otherwise, your suggestion sounds a bit like reincarnation.

Also helpful would be if you could identify other places in this transcript where the court reporter got wording wrong. Some court reporters are more careful than others. If one can't find any other possible glitches by this reporter, then this reporter may be fairly good, and that would make less likely your suggestion.

[Cindy]

Bite me..

Ian, foul language and crass references to your nether regions are absolutely forbidden on this forum. You should go wash your mouth out with soap. You will keep a civil tongue when speaking here, or you will not speak here at all. You will not be warned again.

My apologies, as you found it offensive, George. I won't post that here again. Here was the meaning as I understood it though.

Wiktionary:
bite me   Interjection
 (idiomatic) An expression of discontent or aggravation to another party.

bite me  interjection
    * a command, similar to "Go to ..." (i.e. "Leave me alone!" "Go away!" etc.) Note: not considered especially vulgar, but usually considered inappropriate in more formal settings. --online slang dictionary.

Usuage: usually said in reply to an insult.
"your computer is slower than dirt", "bite me"

[Cindy]

Things I find annoying:

Seeing myself quoted, and appearing to say: And Snoopy is right.

Words I did not post and a concept I did not express.
Have all seen that as well, Snoopy?

No, thank you.  Did I hit a nerve?

I was tempted to delete this post, but I think I'll leave it here so all can see your true colors.

Toodles...

Bite me..

And Snoopy is right.

 

HYPOCRITE!  Cindy, I dare you to go back and review everything on your smut site and then see if you can honestly stand by these statements.  You certainly have a double standard.  You know EXACTLY what I am talking about.

But thank you, as you and your multiple personalities here are just adding fuel to my case.

As for 3D not being able to respond here, I'm willing to bet you will do a superb job of answering for him...wink, wink...

[ex3abnemployee]

The unnamed Shelton in question does exist. I know him personally.

But you didn't hear that accusation from him, nor would you.  Are you really posting this to validate Sister's ugly accusation? Please tell me you aren't.

I'm posting it because it's the truth, and how do you know whether or not I have heard an accusation from him?

[Cindy]

The unnamed Shelton in question does exist. I know him personally.

But you didn't hear that accusation from him, nor would you.  Are you really posting this to validate Sister's ugly accusation? Please tell me you aren't.

I'm posting it because it's the truth, and how do you know whether or not I have heard an accusation from him?

Ok, I meant no offense,  let me rephrase that to a simple yes or no question.

Have you ever heard it from him (the allegation that he was sexually molested by Tommy Shelton)  in all the time that you have known him?

Yes___   No____  

[Cindy]

Sadly, you seem to have judged Tommy along with the rest here, but really you don't know all the details nor anything beyond what mostly Bob Pickle and Glenn Dryden have claimed, but if you are so sure and can pronounce Tommy guilty without hearing his defense, or even hearing the proven facts against him as established in a court of law, and not by a Bob Pickle?

After all this time, you still don't get it? Call risk management for any school or denomination out there. Ask them, "If I hear that someone has accused someone of child molestation, but the person has never been charged or convicted, I can't be sued if a child gets molested? Or if I do get sued, I can't lose, right?"

No, Bob. After all this time you still don't get it. You were given a brief explanation, and there is much you don't know. For example You don't know what it was that Danny said to Walt Thompson based on his understanding or even what was referred to, and what Danny's understanding was of it, except in part, and you don't know what the board discussed or decided apart from not following Drydens list of action items, and merely thanking him for fulfilling his duty to them. You in fact don't have any idea if they took precautions due to the allegations or not. You have assumed and surmised an awful lot and filled in the blanks with your negative ideas of what did or did not happen, and what was known or not known.

Whether Tommy is convicted or acquited is utterly irrelevant as far as Danny Shelton and 3ABN's incompetence in this matter is concerned!

Well if that is your view, why can you not understand that all the allegations and allegations you call "facts" which you have dug up and published  since 2006, have nothing to do with what happened in 2003? Why can't you comprehend that 3ABN did not engage in any cover up, especially of things which were not even known such as the two allegations leading to Tommy's arrest. Why can't you understand that a cover up involves hiding something? and that 3abn did not ever stop one person from filing a complaint or prevent any official investigations from occurring, and nor did they hide evidence or bury it regarding any allegations ? You have accused them of a crime, Bob. That was stated in the lawsuit, but you have never once proven that they in fact committed that crime, instead you have piled up a bunch of allegations and tried to pretend that proves it. It doesn't.

For example he's all along claimed that the 3ABN board should have in 2003 questioned one of the people making allegations as he wrote a letter to Tommy in 2003. He claimed Danny knew this and covered it up when he claimed that the allegations were all old. Pickle is wrong, and not just in that.  Roger Clem didn't write his letter in 2003, he didn't write it until at least 17 mos later

The letter I have always referred to is Glenn Dryden's May 2003 letter to Walt Thompson, which invited Walt to contact the alleged victims, their families, and the ordaining organizations. Walt inexcusably failed to contact any of them.

One of those alleged victims was Roger Clem, who came forward before Dryden wrote his letter. When Roger wrote his letter to Tommy is irrelevant.

You have only Dryden's claim about that. Whereas you also have the claim that

The allegations against Tommy were made ..years ago. They were reported to the proper authorities. No physical actions ever occured. Tommy appologized to the kids and offered recompence. The DA said there was no case. No restrictions were ever imposed. Tommy is employed by 3abn with full board approval, knowing the facts.

The board apparently checked into and verified those facts, did you ever bother to check with the DA, to check with the authorities and even try to understand the facts from all those years ago in regards to what was reported and why no charges were ever filed?