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[bonnie]

I am watching a discussion on another forum and am really amazed. This is not to be misconstrued as a dig at anyone or a specific situation. Curious  if I am the only one that thinks they know what a lie is. For obvious reasons to some I would prefer to get your thoughts here.

What is a lie? Are white lies acceptable? Does the bible condone "some lies". I mean by condone, did God tell, encourage or accept lies by any of his people as the onlly way to deal with certain issues.

I know my children learned quite young what a lie was, how is it that a group of adult christians have such a difficult time deciding if a lie is a lie?

Bonnie

[inga]

What is a lie?

Anything done or not done with the intent to deceive constitutes a lie. IOW not saying something and thus appearing to agree with what is believed can constitute a lie. So can a nod or a shrug, without any words at all.

Does the bible condone "some lies". I mean by condone, did God tell, encourage or accept lies by any of his people as the onlly way to deal with certain issues.

I don't believe so. Abraham got himself into a peck of trouble with his "white lie"/half-truth that Sarai was his sister. God was merciful and protected him nevertheless.

David pretended to be insane to save his life. But I'm sure God could have done it in His way if he had trusted God more.

[patsi]

No matter what type of lie it is, it will always be a lie.  Should not matter whether or not it is white or black lie.

 

How sad it is to know that all the upbringing we do with children letting them know how lying is so bad that with just a few they can turn that all around saying that it is ok as long as it is done with the best of intension's.

[Daryl Fawcett]

What about in the case of Corrie Ten Boom, if I have both remember and spelled her name correctly, and her book The Hiding Place, when being questioned about Jews being hidden in their home?

What was her response?

Did she lie, or did she say something to the affect, go and see for yourselves?

[inga]

What about in the case of Corrie Ten Boom, if I have both remember and spelled her name correctly, and her book The Hiding Place, when being questioned about Jews being hidden in their home?

What was her response?

Did she lie, or did she say something to the affect, go and see for yourselves?

I'm not sure I remember correctly, but ...
I believe she or her sister said that there were Jews "under the table." The Gestapo took that as mockery and left, because they could see there was no one "under the table." However, under the table was a rug covering the trap door to the hiding place. (That's from the book.)

[Daryl Fawcett]

Now that you mention it, that seems to ring a bell in my mind, which goes to show the power of God when the truth is told.

[bonnie]

Now that you mention it, that seems to ring a bell in my mind, which goes to show the power of God when the truth is told.

Most of us have never had to face a life or death question for ourselves or anyone else as of yet. What decision is made in this would be between God and I, IMO. It seems when this question is asked or discussed that those times are used to evaluate when we can lie or if we can.

In everyday life so many times an excuse or reason is given for those little harmless white lies. Using the extremes to make the insignificant reasons more palatable.

Are people really so confused or conflicted on what constitutes a lie?

Do we have to lie to people to make them feel good?
I had an acquaintance with the most atrocious taste in clothes and the worst manner of dress I think I have ever seen. A sweet lady, but oh my the appearance. Did I have to be brutally honest when asked about her new outfit?? Did I have to tell a little white lie and say how great it was??
There was always something positive to say, without telling her a lie. Sometimes it was as simple as saying I was so glad she found a dress that made her fairly sparkle. Which was certainly the case many times.
 She always walked away smiling.
Or should I have used the  white lie??

If my silence allows another to be unfairly accused or maliagned, to me that is a lie, if I know better.
If I tell only a partial truth about something to hopefully put a different face on things, I am lying.
If I admit to a partial wrong and leave my  real actions and motives secret, I am a liar.
I also think it is dishonest to try to find any and all reference to biblical lies and somehow obscure what I may be doing myself.

I think I have to much time in front of the computer these days. I have a online embroidery business and my machine is running all day so have to  baby sit it and it is next to my computer.

Reading to much makes me wonder if it is really that complicated and I just think I know

[bonnie]

Inga posed a question on C/A. I hope she does not mind my bringing it here, but it points to some of the reasons for my initial post.

Inga asked....Is it possible to "lie" in telling a story that consists only of facts?

I worked at a home improvement center for 4 years. We had a great crew for almost that whole time, everyone got along and worked well together. A new hire began and so did a lot of problems and hard feelings. Took some time before any of us figured out what was going on. This new hire, never lied. Yet was the cause "with her facts" that led to many that had been friends becoming workplace enemies.

Was she dishonest?? I believe she was


One morning I came to work and realized my immediate co-worker was very distant and had no idea why.
She was a young gal , I had trained her and we got along better than average. She needed more money so applied for another shift. The new hire happened to work with us on the day my young co-worker told me that she had to,even tho she hated to switch.

We had always teased one another, and I wasteasing her that it finally worked, I had made it so tough on her she had to go to another end of the store. She in turn teased back as to what a relief it would be to go where she was appreciated instead of my complaining about her work.
Within a day or two, my young co-worker was obviously upset with me, as were others that were very fond of her. My teasing comments had by that time circled our crew, no lies were told, repeated almost word for word.
Soon this was happening throughout our crew, everyone snapping like snapping turtles. One morning I walked into work and said good morning to one, and was promptly snapped at. The second time it happened within minutes, I remarked to the gal next to me, two times within five minutes, I felt like I should have had a rabies shot before coming to work. Not till later did I find out I had made another angry. She had the remark made to her that "Did you hear what Bonnie said when you walked by?? She needs a rabie shot because of your attitude.
Complete truth was told, yet??

Eventually it became so bad that several went to management and told them, "It is her, or the rest of us"
We had a meeting and management decided under no circumstances could this be repaired and the new hire was gone

[inga]

Great example, Bonnie, of giving only facts -- selected facts, that is -- and thereby creating a falsehood.

It's done all the time in politics, on the news, even in the church. But, no, those folks aren't lying, or are they? 

[bonnie]

To me it is dishonest and is designed to cause conflict, while standing back with your "clean hands"

[patsi]

Bonnie, it IS dishonest! It was meant to cause conflict. She was telling 'the truth' but not the whole truth. I guess that is why they say in courtrooms. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. If you do not tell the entire truth then that is what leads to conflicts. Thankfully I have not had to deal with this type of situation at the work place.

[inga]

Bonnie, it IS dishonest! It was meant to cause conflict. She was telling 'the truth' but not the whole truth.

I really think this lady was not "telling the truth."

She was relating selected facts. The telling of them resulted in a falsehood. So facts do not equal truth IMO>

[bonnie]

This topic was not created for the following thoughts,but the more I read.....

What is more dishonest than to present a persona, one that has such a righteous ring to it and be something else completely under cover and anonymously?

How is it that some can be so against certain topics/subjects, rail against those that disagree for "their gossip,unlike christlike behavior and have such a through knowledge concerning that which they want no part of.
What happens with information they so studiously collect? Do they then take that knowledge and give the topic they want no part of, think is so terribly wrong, and give it a little nudge in the right places? All the while you can almost see the drawing in of the skirts and pulling up the pant legs, so they won't be contaminated by the "sludge" they help create or keep going? At the same time holding up their hands to show how clean they remain?

This is dishonesty at it's most refined IMO.

[scratsmom]

What about Rahab? And the Egyptian midwives? How do they fit in to our analysis?

scratsmom

[christined]

I have often wondered if it is a lie to tell a person that their new hair cut is nice when they ask, but you really think that it doesn't do anything for them.  Any thoughts on that type of lie?