Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Knight]

I will be cheering you all on in any case. I hope you guys beats 3ABN.

[Daryl Fawcett]

Perhaps it will be the US Government itself that settles this in the end in the form of the IRS.

[Artiste]

I will be cheering you all on in any case. I hope you guys beats 3ABN.

Thanks for your support, Knight!

But be careful...you don't want to get on any subpoena lists!

[J.R. Layman]

It seems that Stan has moved his discussion about us and BSDA behind closed doors, which I can't access.  Can anybody else here access it there?

Well since you banned me for 14 days, (and deleted my message about "The Stan")  for saying anything about "The Stan".....Daryl....I simply don't dare offer you a reply here      FWIW, I have strong opinions about "Club Adventist" and "The Stan"  but I don't dare voice them!  HERE

[Artiste]

Perhaps it will be the US Government itself that settles this in the end in the form of the IRS.

The 3ABN supporters on BlackSDA feel quite sure that the IRS investigation is just a routine response to some reports from misguided people and will go nowhere.

[Daryl Fawcett]

Based on the information Fran posted in the past........

[Artiste]

Based on the information Fran posted in the past........

Daryl, are you talking about documents or specific information she hasn't recently repeated?

[Daryl Fawcett]

It seems I read in one of her posts somewhere that she has documented financial information of interest to the IRS that wouldn't go well for both Danny Shelton and 3ABN.

[Snoopy]

I just received this email response from BlueHost:


Hello,

We will comply with any court order or subpoena legally requesting information from us.


BH/HM/FD Abuse Department
1215 N. Research Way
Suite Q-3500| Orem, UT 84097
V: (888) 401-HOST | F: 801-765-1992

[Chrissie]

I just received this email response from BlueHost:

Hello,

We will comply with any court order or subpoena legally requesting information from us.

BH/HM/FD Abuse Department
1215 N. Research Way
Suite Q-3500| Orem, UT 84097
V: (888) 401-HOST | F: 801-765-1992

Well Snoopy, you must be among the favoured few as they didn't even bother to reply to me. 

[Knight]

Artiste

If 3ABN goes fishing in my well they wil come up empty. But I would welcome it. They will spend more money doing so and get nothing.

[Daryl Fawcett]

I guess this answers that question in that Bluehost will comply with the subpoena unless the subpoena is challenged by somebody else, assuming that can be done.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

You have some valid points Joy.  Unfortunately in the USA those with the gold makes the rules. That has been proven painfully true over and over again.  It would be great if you could get a rich patron on your side. Unfortunately I am not one of those. You mentioned first amendment rights. Unfortunately those with the most gold can just outlast those with less money. By delaying and delaying and appeals after appeal until the poorer side just settles and runs out of money. I have seen this happen way to often.

I can site example after example where the "victims" with sufficient time and patience can over-come. Unfortunately, the wider 3ABN expands their suite, the more in potential damages they face. There are more than a half dozen that have substantial claims that could cost literally millions to resolve. The longer they put off settlement of all those claims, the larger the potential sums, adjusted for inflation, will cost.

Having worked on many cases in the past, those that are willing to wait, will get their peice of the gold. The american justice system can be a great equalizer. In fact, it is great to know that the board has added to it's financial foundation. With so many new deep pockets added to the board, one must asume they will be able to divvy up!!! Patience and time, and negative community relations for 3ABN that entire time. A real challenge for even Elder Gilley. While he builds the business and puts a new face on 3ABN, certain elements of his board work overtime to undermine that affect. Frustrating for a man of such talent!

The real question here is, just how long will the new board underwrite hundreds of thousands in legal fees, particularly an expanded lawsuite, and still carry the millions in losses 3ABN incurs. 3ABN requires millions in donations every year and are hardly self-sufficent or "self supporting". They have, according to the Chairman, significant increases in operating expenses at a time they have decided to take on the very group of people that use to be supporters, rather than simply sit down and talk it through. A frustrating scenario for a new president trying to move ahead!!.

And to take steps to expand the breadth of the suite and increase the number of defendants, or to undertake an alternate suite that clearly is aimed at violating the rights of citizens and Seventh-day Adventist laymen, woud just add to the misery factor at a time when economic conditions are making donation dollars tougher to come by. An extremely frustrating scenario for a new president facing so many hurdles!!!

So, pardon me for being less than concerned, but we have the interior lines of defense and time and justice is most certainly on our side!!!!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Perhaps it will be the US Government itself that settles this in the end in the form of the IRS.

The 3ABN supporters on BlackSDA feel quite sure that the IRS investigation is just a routine response to some reports from misguided people and will go nowhere.

Well, let us pray they are correct. However, to move from review of complaints taken by field offices to authorization to do a field investigation and actually go out and take statements and then to walk off with several boxes of documentation would suggest they determined that where their was smoke they had fire.

Now, the real question is, what is the investigation target? Is it 3ABN, the corporation? Or is it the officers and directors and possibly Shelton family members that have been subject to many allegatiions of private inurement?

I have stated several times that the corporation may be able to simply negotiate a consent decree and a lofty fine for GAAP and other errors.

On the other hand, if the various allegations regarding private inurement from so many past employees is actually justified by tracking financial data, the perpatrators may not be so lucky and may have difficulty raising the dollars neccasary to even offer a deal. If they are the actual targets, they just may not fair so well and have to face the music.

Unfortunately, these perpetrators must sit and wait patiently for the investigative team to finish building the case. Be assured, this was not just an audit and anyone who is deluded to believe this does not understand the federal prosecution process. It can take months and years to move. When and if they move, they will normally have a pretty good case and intend to win. For the perpatrators, the bad news is that I am told this team has a 90% conviction rate. The good news is they do not always win.

The other bad news is that they share their information with state revenue departments and that could be yet another issue that must be addressed. The good news is the state revenue departments have traditionally worked very hard at collecting money and rarely prosecute. So, money makes em happy.

The point is, I do believe that 3ABN can and will survive any charge from the IRS with the appropriate changes in GAAP that the "auditors" frequently referenced. With the current board, I would suspect these are being addressed.

One issue that certainly comes out of this is, who will be the 3ABN scapegoat??? If you were the chief financial officer, would you be concerned? I most certainly would be and would be actively cutting my own deal with the IRS. After all, if you are the Feds, with the book-keeper in your pocket, the case against the the perpetrators becomes enormously closer to airtight...so, if you are the book-keeper, distance yourself from 3ABN and become states evidence is the best deal for the book-keeper. And what happened to every major case from Capone to  Enron? And so many, many in between? The book-keeper cut a deal!!!

Anyone want to give the book-keeper the lead investigators number??? Or does he already have it???

That's my perspective!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

[inga]

Yes, Knight, I'm afraid that what you write is all too true. It's why I previously wrote that this kind of litigation is often used by the rich and powerful to oppress those with lesser means.

Because of the points you raise, I don't believe that the solution will be found in the court system.

At this point, the only solution to be found is from God. That means we need to pray a lot *and* make sure we don't run on our own steam.

Inga

You have some valid points Joy.  Unfortunately in the USA those with the gold makes the rules. That has been proven painfully true over and over again.  It would be great if you could get a rich patron on your side. Unfortunately I am not one of those. You mentioned first amendment rights. Unfortunately those with the most gold can just outlast those with less money. By delaying and delaying and appeals after appeal until the poorer side just settles and runs out of money. I have seen this happen way to often.