Bob,
3D doesn't have a clue who started this mess!
Fran, please don't try and tell others what I do, or do not have a clue about. I at least have read all your posts about 3abn since their beginning on CA, and have talked to 3abn, and those involved there and asked for their pov, for the other side of the story, and for their pov also-- AFTER reading your posts, The truth is I have both sides, but you don't. Why did you never do them the courtesy of ever approaching them one on one or ever asking them for the other side as Jesus asked and taught us?
So Mr. 3D, Leave your accusations to yourself or I will have to re-post chapter and verse as proof of Danny's bad deeds!
************************** I have all of your posts, from the beginning on CA, when no one had a clue what was going on, and so I have considered and weighed all, and have all of the facts from the other side as well as your preconceived, biased opinions and judgments--unlike yourself -- so I am not afraid of going head to head with you, but would prefer not to... Think! Christ did not seek controversy either, but when trapped by his confusers/accusers and confronted, he answered them also.
1An unfriendly man pursues selfish ends;
he defies all sound judgment.
2A fool finds no pleasure in understanding
but delights in airing his own opinions.
3When wickedness comes, so does contempt,
and with shame comes disgrace.
4The words of a man’s mouth are deep waters,
but the fountain of wisdom is a bubbling brook.
5It is not good to be partial to the wicked
or to deprive the innocent of justice.
6A fool’s lips bring him strife,
and his mouth invites a beating.
7A fool’s mouth is his undoing,
and his lips are a snare to his soul.
8The words of a gossip are like choice morsels;
they go down to a man’s inmost parts.
9One who is slack in his work
is brother to one who destroys.
10The name of the Lord is a strong tower;
the righteous run to it and are safe.
11The wealth of the rich is their fortified city;
they imagine it an unscalable wall.
12Before his downfall a man’s heart is proud,
but humility comes before honor.
13He who answers before listening—
that is his folly and his shame.
14A man’s spirit sustains him in sickness,
but a crushed spirit who can bear?
15The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge;
the ears of the wise seek it out.
16A gift opens the way for the giver
and ushers him into the presence of the great.
17 The first to present his case seems right,
till another comes forward and questions him.
What does it mean to be a false witness against our neighbor? Here is one example in scripture:
Deuteronomy 19:16-21 "If a false witness rises against any man to testify against him of wrongdoing, 17 "then both men in the controversy shall stand before Yahweh, before the priests and the judges who serve in those days. 18 "And the judges shall make careful inquiry, and indeed, if the witness is a false witness, who has testified falsely against his brother, 19 "then you shall do to him as he thought to have done to his brother; so you shall put away the evil from among you. 20 "And those who remain shall hear and fear, and hereafter they shall not again commit such evil among you. 21 "Your eye shall not pity: life shall be for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.
To be a false witness against our neighbor basically means to falsely accuse someone else of wrongdoing. In the Torah, false witnesses were dealt with very harshly. We see in the above verses that if a person was found to be bearing false witness against another person, they would be given the punishment that the other person would have received if the witness was true! With such a righteous law, we can understand why 'by the mouth of two or three witnesses' every matter truly was established. If anyone rose up as a false witness, they would be given the same punishment they thought to give to their neighbor.... risking their own life! With such a thing facing them, they would be very careful, yes?
If this righteous rule were established in today's court systems, there wouldn't be nearly the problems we see today.
Notice that the judges were required to make 'diligent inquisition', meaning that they were to be very careful and search diligently before making a judgment. We see this in other instances as well:
Deuteronomy 13:12-15 If you hear someone in one of your cities, which Yahweh your Elohim gives you to dwell in, saying, 13 'Corrupt men have gone out from among you and enticed the inhabitants of their city, saying, "Let us go and serve other elohims" ' -- which you have not known -- 14 "then you shall inquire, search out, and ask diligently. And if it is indeed true and certain that such an abomination was committed among you, 15 "you shall surely strike the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword -- utterly destroying it, all that is in it and its livestock, with the edge of the sword.
And again:
Deuteronomy 17:2-5 If there is found among you, within any of your gates which Yahweh your Elohim gives you, a man or a woman who has been wicked in the sight of Yahweh your Elohim, in transgressing His covenant, 3 "who has gone and served other elohim and worshiped them, either the sun or moon or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded, 4 "and it is told you, and you hear of it, then you shall inquire diligently. And if it is indeed true and certain that such an abomination has been committed in Israel, 5 "then you shall bring out to your gates that man or woman who has committed that wicked thing, and shall stone to death that man or woman with stones.
So we see in these verses the importance of making diligent inquiry before judging that someone has done wrong or evil. While it is true that the context of these cases would be in a court of law, it is also true that judgment begins at the household of Our God:
1 Peter 4:17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?
1 Corinthians 6:2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
The principles of judgment are the same. God's will concerning judgment of matters is consistent throughout all of scripture. A DILIGENT inquiry must be made before making any sort of judgment or being a witness against another. If this is not done, and a false witness speaks...there are very serious consequences. It is a grievous sin in the eyes of God and he is not pleased and will be judged accordingly.
Bottom line? You will be accountable, Fran. for every idle word as will I, so? go for it, if you choose, but be cautious, and careful please, believe it or not, I as well as others love and care about you, and want and pray and hope for the best for you and to stand together with you one day when it really does matter and all is concluded.
Let our Creator Judge.
3d