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[princessdi]

I don't think we are losing the battles and the war.

The Bible requires restitution as a condition for forgiveness.

It is inappropriate to steal someone's time, and not offer to compensate them for that.

Ok, So Bob, I am right. you want the civil courts to uphold your religious beliefs, they are not bound to those beliefs.  Not that I disagree with you on the principle, but you seem to be appealing to the wrong entity for enforcement.  Inth ecivil courts, most of the time, you lose, yu pay your own, if not those who prevailed.  If it is dropped, each pays their own and move on.

They don't want me to keep copies of anything, or notes, or any docs that would include information from the "confidential" materials. And why is that? Because it is incriminating stuff. The lawyers are liable, and they know it. So they want to get the evidence away from us.

Well, you might have had you just acquiesced(sp) instead of crying civil rights/free speech.  You are fighting against the status quo.  Lawsuit dropped, everyone gets their stuff back and go back to..."normal".  Now, you can't be trusted to "do the right thing" so yes they keep the threat of court(and your dwindling resources) before you.  Had you played by the rules, they may have thought you had copies(can't think of anyone who would not, especially when at some point the court records, including all docs become public.  You all have been posting them here all along, right?), but they probably would not care.  So I am thinking it is not having copies that is the problem here.  Just like Danny himself more harm than good, when he initially refused to answer then reasonable questions from supporters, you have done the same by taking things way to far.  Neither one of you is brimming over with credibility.

[Bob Pickle]

In one of the best known photos of her she was actually wearing a piece of jewelry.  However, in the standard printing of that photo, the jewelry has been air-brushed out so she appears not to be wearing what she was wearing.

Are you sure you aren't getting her mixed up with a relative?

[Bob Pickle]

They don't want me to keep copies of anything, or notes, or any docs that would include information from the "confidential" materials. And why is that? Because it is incriminating stuff. The lawyers are liable, and they know it. So they want to get the evidence away from us.

Well, you might have had you just acquiesced(sp) instead of crying civil rights/free speech.  You are fighting against the status quo.  Lawsuit dropped, everyone gets their stuff back and go back to..."normal".

You may be missing the point. There is nothing at all in the confidentiality order that says we have to return a thing. So no, everyone does not get their stuff back, according to that order.

[Gregory]

Bobg PIckle said:

Are you sure you aren't getting her mixed up with a relative?

I do acknowledge that no DNA test was performed.  I have to rely on the word of the White Estate that the woman in the photo was actually Ellen G. White.  It was not a twin sister, cousin or friend that lived down the street.

What does this all mean?  Mainly that people have sometimes taken EGW to take a posiiton that she did not take.  In this case, while EGW clearly spoke out against jewelry she appears not to have taken the agbsolute posistion that some people believe she took.  Aftrer all, she lived what she believed.
 
 
 

[Gregory]

Bob said:

Are you sure you aren't getting her mixed up with a relative?

An e-mail message from the EGW Estate has suggested that I have mixed a photo of a relative in which jewelry was air-brushed out of the published photo.

At the moment I cannot document my statement that this happened to EGW.   So, in the interest of accuracy I wish to add this comment and to say that I may have been wrong in my statement.  If I have further information that sheds light on this I will post it.

I do not claim to be without error in the statements that I make.  When I have reason to beleive that I may have been wrong I will post additional comments.

Gregory Matthews

Here is the part of the EGW Estate message that is most specific:

I suspect that this story got going because in a family picture her granddaughter wore some kind of beaded or shell necklace, which may have been a lei from one of the Pacific islands they stopped at on their way home from Australia.  When this was considered for publication, sometime in the 1930s I think, and possibly in the Review, someone made an editorial decision to remove the necklace, most likely to avoid controversy.  The airbrushed picture has seen publication in several places since, including the sixth volume of Arthur White's six-volume biography of Mrs. White.  I believe Elder White was unaware of the alteration.  In fact, another family picture in the previous volume has such a necklace on Ella.  So Elder White does not seem to have been trying to hide anything.  How this story about airbrushing got transferred to Mrs. White is not clear, unless it is wishful thinking on the part of some! 

[Johann]

Quite an interesting statement.

[tinka]

Di,
I believe you are in the wrong profession, You would make a good defence for the guilty. Yep, a good defence attorney. (smile) but ya have to get the facts straight first...... Bob knows what he is doing while trying to answer all that has already been hashed. Bob and Gailon know and so do I how the system works. I am sure on here there are other lawyers to confirm but then they must like it or they would not stay in it. It is difficult to understand but very enlightening when you have been on the blunt end. I feel in my heart that at least somebody tried. They were not Pilate! You do realize none of this will go away ever. It is history made in the lives of the guilty and no way out except for public repentance since of course all this is in public eye with public funds. Bob and Gailon cannot be held guilty in any of this as the story unfolded within the Shelton Gates. Bob and Gailon were the ones alerted to this mess plus some of the public that still feed the 
Joshua and Caleb came back to conquer. The rest well........be conquered!!!

[Bob Pickle]

Gregory,

I was talking about the picture of Ella to a lady, and the lady reacted quite strongly, adamantly insisting that her grandmother, Ella, did not wear jewelry. I recall her telling me that Ella spent her last days at Eden Valley.

Just an interesting tidbit.

[Gregory]

Bob:

A couple of comments:

Eden Valley:  I was told Sabbath that Eden Valley closed a few days ago.  I do not know if this is accurate.   A number of people told me that they were very sorry to see it happen.  Do you know anything about this?

Airbrushed photo:

My obligation for truth is to follow the evidence.  I trust the EGW Estate in regard the facts although I sometimes differ with them in regard to the intrepretation of the facts.  On that basis I felt that I had to post their reply to me as those facts appear to show that I was wrong in regard to the photo being EGW.

I have been contacted by those who say that they have seen a photo of EGW that was airbrushed for publication.

My memory is also of seeing a photo.


I am searching sources to see if I can locate that photo.  My first search has proved me to be wrong.  That source did not reveal such a photo of EGW.  I am now looking elsewhere.  I will let you-all know if I find anything.

So, for now, based upon the evidence, I was wrong.

[princessdi]

I can't believe you are all having this much discussion about some jewelry on a picture of a person or persons now deceased, and you don't even know when the picture was taken, i.e. before or after conversion to Adventism..............come on now!

[tinka]

It is obvious Di, to discredit on anything they can find to make all nonsence of EGW and get on with all the internet discredit of her too. They got to take is slow and easy on here would'nt you say. You know to see how far they can go with it. She will be discredited soon enough. She told us that would happen. Maybe they all ought to start eating porky since it took her 40 years until the health message part came along. That ought to give them some more justification on the health message.

[Bob Pickle]

Bob:

A couple of comments:

Eden Valley:  I was told Sabbath that Eden Valley closed a few days ago.  I do not know if this is accurate.   A number of people told me that they were very sorry to see it happen.  Do you know anything about this?

Airbrushed photo:

My obligation for truth is to follow the evidence.  I trust the EGW Estate in regard the facts although I sometimes differ with them in regard to the intrepretation of the facts.  On that basis I felt that I had to post their reply to me as those facts appear to show that I was wrong in regard to the photo being EGW.

I have been contacted by those who say that they have seen a photo of EGW that was airbrushed for publication.

My memory is also of seeing a photo.


I am searching sources to see if I can locate that photo.  My first search has proved me to be wrong.  That source did not reveal such a photo of EGW.  I am now looking elsewhere.  I will let you-all know if I find anything.

So, for now, based upon the evidence, I was wrong.

1. I am fairly certain that the info about Eden Valley must be wrong. Someone quite familiar with Eden valley would have told me recently when we had contact, if that were the case. Also, a friend after reading your question contacted someone pretty knowledgeable who also didn't know anything about it.

2. Sydney Cleveland's book makes a big to do about an airbrushed picture of Ella, and in connection with that also made a big to do about Ellen White wearing a pocket watch on a gold chain. However, the gold chain was really a chain made of human hair, from what the White Estate can tell.

[princessdi]

God's truth needs no defending, neither does EGW.  Folks who will believe her, will believe her, those who don't want to will always find a reason not to.  Jewelry or "All you can eat shrimp night" at Red Lobster, only means like everyone else in working out her own savlation, and sanctification was a day by day journey for her also.  Doesn't make her any less inspired or vessel of God.

It is obvious Di, to discredit on anything they can find to make all nonsence of EGW and get on with all the internet discredit of her too. They got to take is slow and easy on here would'nt you say. You know to see how far they can go with it. She will be discredited soon enough. She told us that would happen. Maybe they all ought to start eating porky since it took her 40 years until the health message part came along. That ought to give them some more justification on the health message.

[Bob Pickle]

Bob:

A couple of comments:

Eden Valley:  I was told Sabbath that Eden Valley closed a few days ago.  I do not know if this is accurate.   A number of people told me that they were very sorry to see it happen.  Do you know anything about this?

Airbrushed photo:

My obligation for truth is to follow the evidence.  I trust the EGW Estate in regard the facts although I sometimes differ with them in regard to the intrepretation of the facts.  On that basis I felt that I had to post their reply to me as those facts appear to show that I was wrong in regard to the photo being EGW.

I have been contacted by those who say that they have seen a photo of EGW that was airbrushed for publication.

My memory is also of seeing a photo.


I am searching sources to see if I can locate that photo.  My first search has proved me to be wrong.  That source did not reveal such a photo of EGW.  I am now looking elsewhere.  I will let you-all know if I find anything.

So, for now, based upon the evidence, I was wrong.

1. I am fairly certain that the info about Eden Valley must be wrong. Someone quite familiar with Eden valley would have told me recently when we had contact, if that were the case. Also, a friend after reading your question contacted someone pretty knowledgeable who also didn't know anything about it.

2. Sydney Cleveland's book makes a big to do about an airbrushed picture of Ella, and in connection with that also made a big to do about Ellen White wearing a pocket watch on a gold chain. However, the gold chain was really a chain made of human hair, from what the White Estate can tell.

Gregory, someone sent me an email telling me that the assisted living program is shut down temporarily, but the lifestyle center is going well.

[Gregory]

That may be it.

Thanks for clairfying.

GM