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[princessdi]

The courts found that he did nothing illegal, that doesn't say he has done anything unethical or immoral.  However, the situation is still different as the Lutheran Pastor ris an employee of the Lutheran church under their authority.  Danny is head of his own indipendenet ministry which is SDA, not SDA, when convenient.........Yes, I completely understand that was done for legal standing, just still does not sit right for some reason,  The US courts will continue to find Danny not guilty of anything illegal, the civil courts will rule that he has done nothing that requires financial sanctions.  On the religious side, you cant' get GC to even reconsider using them, they have done a few small things, but not completely denounced or even taken any disciplinary action.  You have listed over, an over again what he has done, a goodportion pretty well documented. God knew what Danny did and does, before he actually executes it.

What exactly do you all want to happen, besides the 3ABN board and GC raising up to oust Danny from his own ministry?  ...been done before, but don't see it being done in this situation.

In another thread I have pointed out what is happening in our local Lutheran Church where the pastor seems to be vindicated for accusations against immoral behavior, even by the state supreme court. But even if he is cleared by the secular courts the local church and the bishop will not re-instate him because of the testimony of two teenage girls.

Here we see that the vindication by a secular court does not count.

[tinka]

I would like to see him stopped from taking in any more money on the skirts of Adventist people with the claim of non denominational claims.
I continue to see large attorney bills, and many other extravaganza views that SDA people keep paying for. Most of all the reason is he is a thief and let this blow some minds but that is point blank when you get funds in the manner that he has gotten it. They were God's funds for God's purposes not for ego lifestyle. It is a facts that the courts don't care about religious things if the people are ignorant to keep feeding his agenda. He can be named with the rest of those tv clowns. I think it might not be long before you really see some stuff coming from that direction as he is now the untouchable.

[childoftheking]

I personally would like the leaders of the church or those at 3ABN to break it gently to the people that there might just have been something wrong going on at 3ABN, tell people who are interested what the concerns were or are and show the documented proof (if any) by both defenders and investigators. Let them know we have genuine concern. No Favoritism just because 3ABN happens to be popular and privileged. Let them know what has been done to correct the problem areas and quit trying to cover it up. From the beginning people who had questions have been villified and insulted just for asking questions when we had no idea whether the answers were going to be favorable to them or not - not only that but they tried to intimidate people and then sued and/or threatened to sue some of us.

Enough of this "Danny had a dream stuff."

[Bob Pickle]

...and he was threatening to drag you back into court because.........?

It's part of why we appealed. Read Simpson's letter at http://www.3abnvjoy.com/mad-07cv40098/mad-07cv40098-doc-152-8.pdf.

Simpson for the very first time, after the case was dismissed, tried to say that everything we got via subpoena was confidential, which would include stuff from Dunn Loring about Tommy. That's his #3 in his letter. But how could Simpson do that? Because Tommy's child molestation is a trade secret of 3ABN? But that's what it would have to be in order for Simpson to cal it confidential.

But waiting until after the case was dismissed was too long to wait. How could Simpson then declare everything we got from Kathy Bottomley to be confidential after the case was already dismissed?

And then Simpson said:

I want to impress upon both of you the importance of full compliance with the Confidentiality and Protective Order. If I become aware of any evidence that Confidential material has been retained by you or released to others by you, or if I become aware of internet postings that reflect or imply the contents of Confidential materials, my instructions are to immediately seek relief from the Court.

Simpson ought to know by now that threats won't get him anywhere. He ought to learn how to behave like a Christian gentleman if he is going to represent a supposed Christian ministry. And threatening me if I reveal what is in the documents I got from Dunn Loring is not behaving like a Christian gentleman. It is really despicable that Simpson would stoop so low as to try to cover up the child molestation allegations in this way.

Now note, Di, they want to muzzle me forever, without ever winning their case. Is that acceptable? Think of all the church administrators, pastors, elders, and such that could end up being muzzled, prevented from dealing with serious problems, simply because some bully out there pulls these type of legal shenanigans. It can't be tolerated.

I am a citizen of the United States of America, and as such I am entitled to constitutional and statutory rights. I don't intend to waive them. And if Danny Shelton doesn't like that, that's just tough.

[Johann]

"We are not interested in the possibilities of defeat."

                      -- Queen Victoria

[princessdi]

Ok so, what do you do next?  The court has ruled....now Like you say, you could take this all thew ay to the Supreme crout if you like, but for some reason, I am nost seeing them even giving  hoot aboutTS less than stellar behavior while pastoring, or Danny's divorce from Linda, or even that he lied about him and Brandy.  What do you take to a higher court that they will even consider?  Do youe xpect them to stop Danny? remove him from 3ABN?

They can threated to haul you back into court because they dropped the suit, and I am reading right the judge acce;ted that...without prejudice which means they can file suit again..........if you don't leave him alone.  In fact, thanks to you all, they could have picked up the old case until this judgement. They stopped the suit,,, as you have been almost begging them to do for years now( which was just confusing to me.  You have threads about how wasteful and a sin it was for them to spend extravagant amounts of money to sue members of the Household of Faith, and when they dropped the suit, you all objected....go figure!).......and they expect for you to drop your talk......or slander as they see it.  I don't believe they are being unreasonable here, Bob.  You all have said some horrible things about each other, very unChrist-like, all the while claiming God is on your side.  So if they stopped, what is unreasonable about expecting you to stop.

Anyway, these are just some questions and thoughts going through my head.  mainly, what do you really expect the courts, or anyone, to do about Danny

It's part of why we appealed. Read Simpson's letter at http://www.3abnvjoy.com/mad-07cv40098/mad-07cv40098-doc-152-8.pdf.

Simpson for the very first time, after the case was dismissed, tried to say that everything we got via subpoena was confidential, which would include stuff from Dunn Loring about Tommy. That's his #3 in his letter. But how could Simpson do that? Because Tommy's child molestation is a trade secret of 3ABN? But that's what it would have to be in order for Simpson to cal it confidential.

But waiting until after the case was dismissed was too long to wait. How could Simpson then declare everything we got from Kathy Bottomley to be confidential after the case was already dismissed?

And then Simpson said:

I want to impress upon both of you the importance of full compliance with the Confidentiality and Protective Order. If I become aware of any evidence that Confidential material has been retained by you or released to others by you, or if I become aware of internet postings that reflect or imply the contents of Confidential materials, my instructions are to immediately seek relief from the Court.

Simpson ought to know by now that threats won't get him anywhere. He ought to learn how to behave like a Christian gentleman if he is going to represent a supposed Christian ministry. And threatening me if I reveal what is in the documents I got from Dunn Loring is not behaving like a Christian gentleman. It is really despicable that Simpson would stoop so low as to try to cover up the child molestation allegations in this way.

Now note, Di, they want to muzzle me forever, without ever winning their case. Is that acceptable? Think of all the church administrators, pastors, elders, and such that could end up being muzzled, prevented from dealing with serious problems, simply because some bully out there pulls these type of legal shenanigans. It can't be tolerated.

I am a citizen of the United States of America, and as such I am entitled to constitutional and statutory rights. I don't intend to waive them. And if Danny Shelton doesn't like that, that's just tough.

[tinka]

Princessdi,
I know you are not addressing me but I don't think you understand all.  also it is not just mere statements made on behalf of what DS has done.
Bob can show the corruption and actions of the courts and it takes a shear genious to catch them up. But they all protect each other and then that is what seems impossible to get through.

Sometimes Di the culprit with loose funds to play with can keep you in the system and keep you fighting. Hopefully it backfires soon on the liar and theif.  The people of ignorance of the situation gives DS his play money to pass go and that way he can also keep feeding his  s.

It is most cunning the acts that can be used in the system for evil. If DS's money was stopped so would the courts!!! and keep in mind that the men that stood up to wrong had nothing to gain in monetary funds. DS has everything to loose. even to LS.

[Daryl Fawcett]

I heard through the grapevine that DL's biggest funds provider stopped providing those funds, which resulted in the dropping of this lawsuit?

The problem is that I can't remember where I heard this.

[Johann]

I heard through the grapevine that DL's biggest funds provider stopped providing those funds, which resulted in the dropping of this lawsuit?

The problem is that I can't remember where I heard this.

It might be interesting to see if anyone can prove that you are wrong.

[princessdi]

I understand more than you know an then some, tinka. I have been following this for a while, at one point virtually refereeing the two sides, along with Calvin and Steve, on BSDA.  It is a HUGE, HOT mess!  But yet and still the courts have not found him quilty of any crminal offense, and apparently GC(the church) is not finding him guilty of any moral or spiritual offenses.  Not that the church is right( just the moral issues are enough to at least censure the rank and file member), they just have done nothing about it.  Why continue to appeal to either one?

Princessdi,
I know you are not addressing me but I don't think you understand all.  also it is not just mere statements made on behalf of what DS has done.
Bob can show the corruption and actions of the courts and it takes a shear genious to catch them up. But they all protect each other and then that is what seems impossible to get through.

Sometimes Di the culprit with loose funds to play with can keep you in the system and keep you fighting. Hopefully it backfires soon on the liar and theif.  The people of ignorance of the situation gives DS his play money to pass go and that way he can also keep feeding his  s.

It is most cunning the acts that can be used in the system for evil. If DS's money was stopped so would the courts!!! and keep in mind that the men that stood up to wrong had nothing to gain in monetary funds. DS has everything to loose. even to LS.

[tinka]

Di,
I should have made myself more clear. I am talking about the issues of the courts. I can imagine for sure that you know more then I do with a lot more detail as I ventured into the other post I think about 1 time and that was a lot to take on. That is where it was discussed about Melody, I mostly just stay on this one only.

The laxness on this by the church and leadership has really got me dumbfounded. I don't want to believe it but I know it is true. I just can't understand why this has been allowed. All I know is that it is true that the greatest lights will go out and whole conferences will go along with wrong actions as they give up inch by inch our beliefs. What can I say I feel I already am seeing this happen and even though I read and realize what is coming,,, Guess we must except it must be now.

[Bob Pickle]

Ok so, what do you do next?  The court has ruled....now Like you say, you could take this all thew ay to the Supreme crout if you like, but for some reason, I am nost seeing them even giving  hoot aboutTS less than stellar behavior while pastoring, or Danny's divorce from Linda, or even that he lied about him and Brandy.  What do you take to a higher court that they will even consider?  Do youe xpect them to stop Danny? remove him from 3ABN?

They can threated to haul you back into court because they dropped the suit, and I am reading right the judge acce;ted that...without prejudice which means they can file suit again..........if you don't leave him alone.  In fact, thanks to you all, they could have picked up the old case until this judgement. They stopped the suit,,, as you have been almost begging them to do for years now( which was just confusing to me.  You have threads about how wasteful and a sin it was for them to spend extravagant amounts of money to sue members of the Household of Faith, and when they dropped the suit, you all objected....go figure!).......and they expect for you to drop your talk......or slander as they see it.  I don't believe they are being unreasonable here, Bob.  You all have said some horrible things about each other, very unChrist-like, all the while claiming God is on your side.  So if they stopped, what is unreasonable about expecting you to stop.

Anyway, these are just some questions and thoughts going through my head.  mainly, what do you really expect the courts, or anyone, to do about Danny

1. They can sue us again even if we never say another word. There's nothing to stop them presently.

2. The suit was dropped without asking us to never say another word.

3. They are trying to take away our discovery documents which cost us a lot of time and effort and money to get, even though the confidentiality order doesn't say we have to give them to them. Then if they sue us again, we would have to start from scratch fighting to get documents. They ought to let us keep the documents in peace, just like we have a legal right to do.

4. I think we should be free to talk about things as if it went to trial. If it went to trial, most or all evidence would become public record. And that's what I think it should be. I don't think we should be threatened for the rest of our lives over stuff that would have become public record.

5. They should have dropped the suit without playing all these stupid lawyer games. And they should have paid our expenses, since they are the ones who filed a frivolous suit.

[Johann]

The laxness on this by the church and leadership has really got me dumbfounded.

There is the possibility that Church leaders were afraid that Danny Shelton would sue them if they did, and that it might cost the church an enormous sum of money in court expenses.

[princessdi]

Ok Bob, if they sropped the suit against the little guy they knew had nowhere near their resources, and you stopped running Danny in the ground and making him out as and anti-christ, there is no reason for them to sue you again.

Why would you keep thos documents? I believe that is why the judgement doesn't require or order that you give them back, just says you should have.  Plus, whatever went on in the trial, so far you are losing the battles and the war, what difference does it make?  Why would they pay your legal fees?  You really want them to pay the legal fees on a suit that if you had your way would still be progressing in court.  They would more than likely only be responsible for yourlegal fees if they loss.  They didn't everyone pays their own legal fees.......and I thought most of the time you allwere representing yourselves?

[tinka]

Well Di,

In just simple common ordinary sense, (and just surmizing again) if Bob gave all documents of proof back and then DS turned around and sued   with his option to do for revenge how would Bob prove his side?? with no documents??

Bob is up against begged for pew money and corruption with courts seeking the same with a filled pocket sucker the same ....as long as the money keeps coming in the lawyers spin their spin. Now just who is the devil here?  It should have taken the people within the church to take this on....people to stand up against this -where are they as most I think will take your view. But in the courts of corruption is hardly a chance is my view but Bob and Gailon's view is to stand up to corruption with the knowledge they have to fight the cancer within. Don't you think in the broad picture that someting like this is the destroyer of the church by using mostly what is right and the one thing that is wrong bring the church down. Will anyone else stand to this?

Johann, I guess I'm not able to figure out real quick on how the church was afraid that maybe DS could sue them. Those inner working and connections if DS claims non denominational. How is it that they cannot disconnect from him?  Maybe the media and bad publicity of the church?