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[Wordkeeper]

On this 165th anniversary of when Jesus entered the Most Holy Place, we are wanting to let every Seventh-day Adventist in the world know about a much neglected message from God. God desires His remnant to be clothed in heavenly raiment. Our outward dress is to reflect His purity in our hearts. For too long, God's inspired counsels have been hidden from His church. Jesus is coming soon! It's time to give the straight testimony! We can't hold back for fear of the people rising up against it!

Thank you so much! Have a blessed day,
Linda

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Edited by Artiste to remove inappropriate content.

[princessdi]

Well, Linda, this is a different and fresh approach.  I believe that our teachings can remain the same, but also change to meet the current issues.  I must also say that when I visited your website, the outfit pictured there was quite attractive, and I am actually on the opposite end of the belief spectrum. 

I also agree that for the most part our outward appearance "can" be an indicator of what is going on inside.  I believe that it is only through a love relationship with God that things like dress change to also be a witness for Christ.  I believe your approach is different in that it does stress the inward change first, IOW, that relationship with God on the inside being relfecged in our outward appearance.

Where we differ is how much importance we should really put in clothes/accessiories.  I have seen SDAs who have never worn a piece of jewelry in their miserable Adventist lives...and it shows........I have also seen some Baptist, Methodist, etc. with jewelry who have glowed with the Light of Jesus..........accessories included.  No, I was not distracted by their jewelry/dress, as that has nothing to do with the person, but a personal failing on my part to allow satan to so ealisy distract me that I miss a potential blessing to share and witness with another sister in Christ.

The Bible talks about how "man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looking on the heart".   I am almost positive that man looking on the outward appearance was a positive thing.  However, it is something we can control, or perceive that we can control in others(with great success in far too many instances), therefore leading to conformity, instead of realtionship.  Or as you put it on your website, not putting first things first, by first changing the inside. 

The thing we often miss is that we cannot hide the Light the Jesus if He is truly in our hearts.  We do not have the power to distinguish the Ultimately Source of Light.  Concentrating on other's outward appearance is a human failing and shows a need to be part of a group, making sure that everyone is doing the same as we are doing....belonging.  If we are all changing inwardly, ther will be no comformity in the outward appearance as God will bring us all along in His own time, and not as a group.

I thank God for your honest and earnest search for God's truth.  I will continue to pray for you along your journey to truly see God's Children(His daughters in particular) as he sees them, and ask that you do the same for me.

[tinka]

hello Linda,
I was glad to see your post. It appears that time has rubbed away at an important issue. I just watched Hope channel last evening and was really disappointed at seeing a young teenage group singing the "witness song". They did it just wonderful but my thoughts were on their sloppy dress of jeans (boys and girls) and sloppy black shirts. All looked the same and I thought this is going all over the world with their disrespect of dress and how we are told to present ourselves. What happened to the appearance of difference between genders? They could not even fix their hair in neat appearance. Have you ever watched the Catholics & Mormans? There apparences would never be allowed to present themselves in that manner and the reverance is quite demanded. They are more respectful then the lazy Adventist to do something like that. That is one thing i am starting to see on Hope and I am not impressed when we have the rightful message. What are they thinking. Super laxiness???

Also I am probably one of the weird SDA's that does not wear the jewelry. It is not because I think it is not pretty, but because God commanded that his people would not wear it from the time he commanded. It is all because of vanity. Tell me one instant that it is not. For that reason I obey it. The truth is I think it is beautiful and it was God's gifts...in the beginning. But it changed and therefore I go along with scripture and EGW telling that we do not know ourselves as intimate as God does. EGW said that not one circle of gold should a penny be wasted on.  It finally even changed in the church manuel to permit the wearing of a wedding ring for what ever reason they can come up with. Here is the point. I do not need a circle of gold to prove I am married. In my day I have had plenty of whistles and still some think I am much younger then I am and it is quite funny to me when shopping and it still sort of happens. It is how you conduct yourself when you are loyal to the one you have and love and cherish. There is no problem or can I find a reason to wear it. I only have eyes for just one. It is sure vanity and no other reason.

Yes, many on the gaithers sing with inspiration that is just so real and that is because they are charasmatic and perform on emotion. Religion is not emotion and therfore Adventists should not try to copy the gaithers lack of real religion. Maybe some will never come to realize the vanity of self and will be the one thing that keeps them from the gates. After all where does vanity come from?? Yep, jewelry is beautiful and I admit I like it but will wait until the Lord restores the gems when it is time. We just make our own justifications for what we mostly have laid aside in dress and jewels. Yes, I agree Christian dress it most beautiful to see as one has no questions of honest character within, that now is hard to find.  I saw on Hope channel the copycat performance where a strapless dress was visible. Don't tell me we should except that when Gaithers are very modest in their dress. Shear "Vanity" and no way out of this one.....
Simplicity is beauty in dress and health.

[princessdi]

You are correct, Tinka, Religion is not emotional.  Religion is just the practice of something, not always religious, out of habit.  There is no real emotional attachment to it, it is just what we are used to doing.  This is also conformity which is generally comsumed with making sure that others are "practiing religioin".  However, a relationship with Christ requires all from us including our emotions.  They are a part of our will that we are to submit back to Him, not to extinguish, but also to use in His service.  God created them within us, so they do have a place in our relationship and service to Him.

And I know you are not hatin'(speaking against) the Gaithers!  LOL!!!!  Seriously though, they have written some of the most beautiful songs of praise, worship and faith that we all sing.  What first drew me to watching them was the beatiful way they sang those old hymns.....and that big hair(sorry retired hairstylist. Just oculd not help myself  LOL!).

Also, I might be careful about judging another's relationship with Christ.  We lack the information and authority to do so.

[tinka]

We also have a head and brain that was created to discern, learn, train and discipline to the best of our ability given by God that we not be deceived.
If we cannot know or learn how to discern--we are deceived.

DS does not have good actions or appearances on the extravaganza and marriage and sexual scene.

I really don't judge people's religion as I cannot tell what is in their hearts, some can be very outwardly sincere, but after the show it is a whole different game, but in most cases it is discerned by outward appearances and actions. and that probably is the reason we are instructed to "shun all appearances of evil" as not to cause people's discernment to be jerked around. After all, we have to live in society and choose friends, acquaintances, businesses and husbands and wife's.

Yes, the talent of music has been given to many, but it takes real "showmanship" to perform for attention. I like the songs that people can bring inspiration from the Holy Spirit without the self performing attention getters. Certain Adventist singer, I really cannot stand to watch.  One of the most inspiring singer we have is Maddie on Ken Cox with the organ music. Her melody of voice is so disciplined into natural tones. Her music is perfect. Her language is perfect and her projecting of the music comes strictly from inspiration and quite beautiful. I often thought she must have taught music as she sings so perfect. Del Decker is another that sang inspiration and not a performer.  It is a gift of perfection given to her with her honest heart.  Another, that is steady, unchangeable and such a melodious voice is Joe Pearles. He does no performing unless he is outside in nature with no attention to himself. Also I love the men's choir and quartet that I just heard the other night.

Linda's voice and music is also good but she does not need the videos to make her better.  She has the sincere and valid way of a true singer for Jesus. She does not come across as a performer in spirit although the videos are made with beauty along to observe. But like Maddie she doesn't need it. She can stand on her own to get her music across.  I really like the organ player on Ken Cox too.  I wish the evangelists would realize that when they have the singers injected into their seminars, they should choose the ones that get Jesus across instead of the performers.  I term the word performers maybe different then

 most, I sort of look at that word is one who brings attention to their selves so much in gyrations that you forget what they are singing about. Oh, well it is obvious I do not like the high jumping and stomping, drumming, clapping, banging, and body language that is displayed in great emotion to worship God. Somehow I just never, ever pictured Jesus worshiping the Father in that manner.

 I also come from a long, long, line of happy music that is not worship music . It is the folk music. I do not dance but my heart grows happy as the folk music of happy people of different old time (polka music, or swiss yodeling,) culture coming together. People happy together. But for Sabbath and worship it is a time for reverence done God's way or should I say example. ONe thing for sure it is a pretty big subject and we should use good reasoning in all.

[Murcielago]

The use of percussion instruments and dance in worship was biblical, but like so many other things, it was established as un-Christian by a religion, and the tradition set in motion by that has been followed across centuries. Although we say that we don't hold tradition as equal to the Bible in authority, in practice and belief we give tradition greater authority than the Bible in matters such as dress, music, dance, jewelry, etc. Unfortunately we seem to often establish our personal taste and feeling in matters of music, dress, food, worship style, etc as divine mandate and then attempt to enforce it on others as dogma.

[Emma]

Wise words, George.

[tinka]

George,

Aahhaa, the same thing I see happening within some churches is that some individuals try to get everyone to go vegan. The results are very bad.
Also, it is so sought after that soon it seems to lead into people worrying so much about their self and extremism that fianlly they are debasted get pretty screwy acting. It is worry some for me. You better be a nutrionist before you start. It can lead to extreme disabilities that soon can be detected by out siders when you lead people to do this when they don't know what they are doing. I truly believe in EGW when she states not to make yourself weak before time demands it. But then those come back and say well "Time demands it now"! I say that God's time will demand it and we will know when. I think at that time it will be worse then vegan where food is able to be found. So stay healthy and as strong as you can till then. (Not much out there to be healthy these days anyway. Why make it worse? You know you will not loose heaven because you ate clean meats. But you will be vegetarian if living at the time of the coming without seeing death.  So why do we make it all such an issue? In the beginning, We were to show people not to eat the unclean meats, coffee, tea, achohol, cigs, etc. etc.  Finally, EGW had to address the fantacism so again people are doing just what you said George.

[princessdi]

George, George, George...you never cease to amaze me.....Well said, my friend. 

Thing is people who see things as George, or I do. generally(but not always) have a healthy respect for all forms of worship.  Tinka, those singers are your personal favorites, and there is nothing absolutely wrong with that.  I have others who are mine, and there is nothing wrong with that either.  It is about who reaches  us, the music through which the Holy Spirit speaks to us personally.  However, that doesn't mean that music and only that music can speak to others.  Now one thing, I do notice is that you are easily distracted, and that is no failing of the singer/musician.  You might try to ask God to help you make you focus more veritcal instead of horizontal.

The use of percussion instruments and dance in worship was biblical, but like so many other things, it was established as un-Christian by a religion, and the tradition set in motion by that has been followed across centuries. Although we say that we don't hold tradition as equal to the Bible in authority, in practice and belief we give tradition greater authority than the Bible in matters such as dress, music, dance, jewelry, etc. Unfortunately we seem to often establish our personal taste and feeling in matters of music, dress, food, worship style, etc as divine mandate and then attempt to enforce it on others as dogma.

[princessdi]

We make it such an issue for the same reason we make an issue what everyone else is wearing, watching on TV/movies, listening for music, etc.   We long)and have been taught) conformity, to feel part of a group where we all are doing the same thing.  It is human, but something we must get over is we are truly to enter into individual relationships with God.  He may take you where no one else is, you have to have enough faith for it to be just Him and you.  We do this all the time with our earthly relationships.  We don't expect each individual marriage to be like any other.  Same thing. 

George,

Aahhaa, the same thing I see happening within some churches is that some individuals try to get everyone to go vegan. The results are very bad.
Also, it is so sought after that soon it seems to lead into people worrying so much about their self and extremism that fianlly they are debasted get pretty screwy acting. It is worry some for me. You better be a nutrionist before you start. It can lead to extreme disabilities that soon can be detected by out siders when you lead people to do this when they don't know what they are doing. I truly believe in EGW when she states not to make yourself weak before time demands it. But then those come back and say well "Time demands it now"! I say that God's time will demand it and we will know when. I think at that time it will be worse then vegan where food is able to be found. So stay healthy and as strong as you can till then. (Not much out there to be healthy these days anyway. Why make it worse? You know you will not loose heaven because you ate clean meats. But you will be vegetarian if living at the time of the coming without seeing death.  So why do we make it all such an issue? In the beginning, We were to show people not to eat the unclean meats, coffee, tea, achohol, cigs, etc. etc.  Finally, EGW had to address the fantacism so again people are doing just what you said George.

[tinka]

No, Di, I am not easily distracted. I keep many things going on all at once with still large family out there, and usually quite tired when I get into the posts. I am a very busy person as others have need.

The point I am trying to get across and fail for right words (many times) is not for acceptance for ones self desires but why do we choose what we do?  Is it for our own emotions? our own likes? our own time, our own inner character, our own everything that pleases us the most. We must discipline into the right channels by divine direction and willingness of doing what our Example is set before us. Then learning to love the direction since from birth we are selfish individuals. Finally it is a well feeling of right choosing with inspirational secure feeling. It is not a feeling of justified selfishness for ones own agenda.  This probably is the only selfish thought when I see people that can radiate this type of character as i posted my preferences of music.

I mentioned my likes, and here are some more, I used to be a great horse fan, had em, raised em, (but the racing end of excitement I would not venture in as it would be in my blood) fine dogs, like beautiful jewelry, (but don't own any) .  I was the oldest and received the biggest family diamond of ancestors. I sold it to pay a bill. I did not know what a stone could do for me?  But my likes were not what I needed to come closer to my real need so many things I force my will utill I have a feeling that is connection hopefully on my creators likes. I am quite disappointed that I did not have these thought early in life. I have since decided that we are controlled by our own likes and then justify why. We have an example, and our emotions are to be used to do good or evil.  I still fight daily to control my likes as it presents , some time wasted as I have some hobby's, that I am sure I should not have to the extent that I like to do. Some times I overdo to take away hurt of trials. i do not believe in conformity to no one. I have been taught to follow only ONE.  Lessons have been many by trusting what man says and does. and this text has made great impact  on my life and I wanted to post it to No sirmizing but then again he or she would not have understood what I was getting at.
 
It is the verse where it states and I can bring it up later as I am not on my regular computer at the moment but in Eccl. It says there is nothing new under the sun that was not known or here before. That is a whole lot to think and ponder over. Everything is vanity. For ones own self?
God takes us when we are willing to obey his will and not our own. That is my everyday thoughts that mostly I fail to do. ECCL:

 1:9   The thing that hath been, it [is that] which shall be; and that which is done [is] that which shall be done: and [there is] no new [thing] under the sun.  
  1:10   Is there [any] thing whereof it may be said, See, this [is] new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.  

 1:13   And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all [things] that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith.  

1:14   I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all [is] vanity and vexation of spirit. 

Hmm, this can be applied to many things. But conformity to me means all in unity under God's direction and not our own . EGW explains exactely this about the music because there are far more cultures then what could be satisfied or brought to gether with everyone's choices... In stead we have conformed to please everyones preferences.  I am not agreeable to that. But that is only me and my belief or opinion.  One thing for sure everyone has the freedom to do as they chose.

[Johann]

This discussion has some similarities to a discussion I discovered is going on Spectrum. There someone is claiming that Doug Batchelor and Amazing Facts are not using legitimate tools in evangelism. . .  You may want to read it yourself.

http://bit.ly/20yv1e

[WillowRun]

I firmly do not believe the women dressing in long dresses with long sleeves and cotton tights (even in the summer ugh!) is a salvation issue.   This kind of nonsense was part of what pushed me out of the formal church years ago.  And musical styles.  Some adventists often end up in nonsensical arguments that have no real bearing on evangelization or salvation.


Willow

[tinka]

Johann,

Just read your link. did not know it was there   who in the world are they kidding. that conference is the most liberal of all. You would be lucky to find a place that has any signifiance of conservative except maybe a couple of places. The reason is they need a new president years ago. Why do you thinki it is now in this shape and still mounting? No one could ever make a believer of anything coming out of Ohio. Any good pastors seem to leave and go to Michigan. or who knows where! Our daughter tried going back and thought she entered into charasmatic movement. This post is not big enough to tell the stories with out end encluding the schools.

You see, people are really satisfied to do as they please, (dress, jewelry, and what feels good and when. They have the best president for that!!!I
I heard even in some place the preacher had them line up for the wafer and no foot washing.  think this means nothing, think again what is happening.

[Johann]

Are you concluding that most of the Adventist who will not reach the crystal gates might end up in Ohio?