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Author Topic: Lutheran Moral Concern  (Read 27417 times)

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horsethief

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Re: Lutheran Moral Concern
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2010, 07:23:41 PM »

Opposing views are fine... So is the spirit of prophecy. I'd find us agreeing on creationism.

TEA party is my place as well. I was at one of the first ones in 2009.

But there are some sincere believers in Jesus in the Lutheran Church. Even within that denomination's leadership.
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Gailon Arthur Joy

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Re: Lutheran Moral Concern
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2010, 08:07:57 PM »

It is profound how a single person's statement on National TV could become the beginning of such a grass-roots effort nationwide.

I was watching that morning in the early Spring of 2009 when Rick Santelli protested the decision to use TARP/HAMP funds to pay their neighbors mortgages and called upon a response from the Chicago Mercantile Exchange... they exploded into an outraged response to which Rick promptly put his entire career on the line at CNBC by calling for a Tea Party in Lake Michigan, live on CNBC, a not so supportive network. That CALL TO ARMS was a shot heard around the world and is one the Obama Administration wishes had never occured. Oh, but for the ability to turn the clock backwards!!!

Can you imagine the world's outrage going forward as SDA's take a stand for the right of conscience in opposition to the false revival of the beast on national Television? The world will beleive their very financial survival is at stake and SDA's will be the only group in the way of world-wide reformation and revival to alleviate the judgments of the Lord of Rome? Just look at how quickly this coallesced into a national movement? How can one wonder further the eschatology we know to be just ahead...gives new meaning to the statement that the final events will be rapid ones.

Gailon Arthur Joy
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horsethief

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Re: Lutheran Moral Concern
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2010, 08:36:19 PM »



Before you condemn these Lutheran leaders, let's just remember the grace that Jesus extends to us to lead us out of our stubborn ways. That same grace could be being applied to those Lutheran leaders right now.
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Gailon Arthur Joy

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Re: Lutheran Moral Concern
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2010, 09:18:34 PM »

And so when do we expect the announcement of their coming out of apostacy and becoming Seventh-day Adventists? Maybe during the Loud Cry???

A most fundemental step would be to hold an ecclesiastical tribunal and let the Pastor defend himself pursuant to canonical law for the purported allegations, giving the victims a fair hearing.

The rules of canonical evidence would unlikely give the Pastor the same "loop-holes" as the rules of criminal procedure and if he is guilty, he should be defrocked and pensioned out, assuming he is fully vested under either canonical law or the Laws of Iceland.

I find the Bishop's compromise un-acceptable, as unacceptable as the Directorate of 3ABN failing to give Linda Sue Shelton a fair hearing.


You may elect to defend their dishonorable conduct, I will choose to condemn it.

Gailon Arthur Joy

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Johann

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Re: Lutheran Moral Concern
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2010, 03:08:49 AM »

Opposing views are fine... So is the spirit of prophecy. I'd find us agreeing on creationism.

TEA party is my place as well. I was at one of the first ones in 2009.

But there are some sincere believers in Jesus in the Lutheran Church. Even within that denomination's leadership.

I have had a couple of Lutheran Professors come to me telling me they are more in agreement with certain Seventh-day Adventist doctrines than they are with their own mainstream theological seminaries.
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horsethief

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Re: Lutheran Moral Concern
« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2010, 04:44:09 PM »

"God has children, many of them, in the Protestant churches, and a large number in the Catholic churches, who are more true to obey the light and to do [to] the very best of their knowledge than a large number among Sabbathkeeping Adventists who do not walk in the light. {3SM 386.2}"

– Ellen White, Selected Messages, book 3, p.386
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princessdi

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Re: Lutheran Moral Concern
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2010, 04:52:20 PM »

Ouch!!!!    You don't hear nobody quoting that one!  LOL!!!!    :ROFL:   

So now seriously, what does this do to our concept about "The Remnant"?


 
 
"God has children, many of them, in the Protestant churches, and a large number in the Catholic churches, who are more true to obey the light and to do [to] the very best of their knowledge than a large number among Sabbathkeeping Adventists who do not walk in the light. {3SM 386.2}"

– Ellen White, Selected Messages, book 3, p.386

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It is the duty of every cultured man or woman to read sympathetically the scriptures of the world.  If we are to respect others' religions as we would have them respect our own, a friendly study of the world's religions is a sacred duty. - Mohandas K. Gandhi

Gailon Arthur Joy

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Re: Lutheran Moral Concern
« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2010, 07:08:46 PM »

"God has children, many of them, in the Protestant churches, and a large number in the Catholic churches, who are more true to obey the light and to do [to] the very best of their knowledge than a large number among Sabbathkeeping Adventists who do not walk in the light. {3SM 386.2}"

– Ellen White, Selected Messages, book 3, p.386


Are you purporting the Bishop and his Pastor fit this description?

Notice the word "children" not Bishops and pastors that compromise to keep the peace.

Gailon Arthur Joy
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Gailon Arthur Joy

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Re: Lutheran Moral Concern
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2010, 07:13:53 PM »

Ouch!!!!    You don't hear nobody quoting that one!  LOL!!!!    :ROFL:   

So now seriously, what does this do to our concept about "The Remnant"?



Whose concept??? The Spirit of prophecy makes it clear that as the eschatology moves toward the Loud cry, vast numbers of the SDA Membership fall off the path and are replaced by converts from fallen protestantism. May be room for even a Bishop and a Pastor.

However, read carefully the Laodicean Message and when clearly understood that most of us are in SERIOUS TROUBLE!!!.

Gailon Arthur Joy
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horsethief

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Re: Lutheran Moral Concern
« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2010, 08:36:28 PM »

Gailon...I'm through disagreeing with you, and that EG White quote is not meant to counterpoint anyone. I don't defend the actions of that Lutheran leader either. My only premise is to be sure that we all understand that Jesus still has sheep in pastures other than our own.

My dad was a catholic at one time and he never thought his journey would bring him tobe head elder of a major sda congregation. So let's not let the sins of the leaders of these other denominations malign those precious hungry souls within whom Jesus knows still seek him.
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tinka

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Re: Lutheran Moral Concern
« Reply #40 on: October 05, 2010, 05:44:17 AM »

I guess your post makes me understand a little more how all this is happening then about the 3abn programming. somehow I figured that Adventists were totally mingled with 3abn. but on the other hand Johann, I feel much better not watching "Hope". I just can't get into their displaying views of foundational changing to New age looks and actions.
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princessdi

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Re: Lutheran Moral Concern
« Reply #41 on: October 05, 2010, 09:29:11 AM »

Horsetheif, you know I likes you!   Well said!

Gailon...I'm through disagreeing with you, and that EG White quote is not meant to counterpoint anyone. I don't defend the actions of that Lutheran leader either. My only premise is to be sure that we all understand that Jesus still has sheep in pastures other than our own.

My dad was a catholic at one time and he never thought his journey would bring him tobe head elder of a major sda congregation. So let's not let the sins of the leaders of these other denominations malign those precious hungry souls within whom Jesus knows still seek him.
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It is the duty of every cultured man or woman to read sympathetically the scriptures of the world.  If we are to respect others' religions as we would have them respect our own, a friendly study of the world's religions is a sacred duty. - Mohandas K. Gandhi

Gailon Arthur Joy

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Re: Lutheran Moral Concern
« Reply #42 on: October 05, 2010, 10:02:33 PM »

Gailon...I'm through disagreeing with you, and that EG White quote is not meant to counterpoint anyone. I don't defend the actions of that Lutheran leader either. My only premise is to be sure that we all understand that Jesus still has sheep in pastures other than our own.

My dad was a catholic at one time and he never thought his journey would bring him tobe head elder of a major sda congregation. So let's not let the sins of the leaders of these other denominations malign those precious hungry souls within whom Jesus knows still seek him.

Let's get one point out in the open now...this forum is a place for open discussion and one does not necessarily have to be right or wrong to have differing views of differing issues. It should be a fun and educational process that we all grow with.

It is inappropriate for bloggers to feel that they are being personally attacked when another blogger takes on challenging issues and expresses their views. I do not intend to make one wrong or right but invoke discussion. Have even been known to be the devil’s advocate to draw out another’s real view of issues at bar. And I readily admit that I enjoy the debate…in fact revel in it. But, please never take it so personally…I don’t know enough about you to make it personal.

Now, if you are Danny Lee Shelton in disguise, or one of the disciples, then my game is to expose and flay…and I live for the moment.  I despise hypocrits!!!

Believe me when I say I work with people every day that disagree with my views and frequently we agree to disagree. But it is also essential that I get my point across or clients will suffer.  

Persuasion, or at least persuasive compulsion, is required or I have failed in my advocacy or administration. On the other hand if there is a good reason why my position is wrong, I want to hear it or I will have lost the opportunity to understand the opposing view and form a broader conclusion. So buck up and enjoy the banter…if you were target of reprisal, believe me, you would know it – there would be a Save-Horsethief.com or Horsethief vs Joy.com. I have no reason to think or believe this would ever happen.

As to the pasture being wide and inclusive of fallen protestants and catholics, I will point out that my wife is a former catholic whose mother worked for the Diocese, and a devout catholic indeed. I am an avid door to door worker and love to meet people right where they are, catholic, protestant or agnostic.

Again, what I cannot stand is men in leadership that do not stand for principal and are far short of being “as true as the needle to the Pole”. I declare them spineless wimps and hypocrits and they are the enemies of true Faith and Discipleship. They need revival and reformation.

I also have real problems with men who leadership knows have serious challenges in their past, have played a role in assisting others in dastardly deeds, then are still promoted to church leadership roles in the falsity of their resume’s. And it has happened recently in the SDA church. It cannot be tolerated without a clear and precise challenge as the party has shown no remorse, has not confessed his wrong to another sister, has not repented of his very public effort and has not demonstrated a spirit of revival and reformation.

In fact, I will go so far as to declare we now have a FOX IN THE HENHOUSE of Adventist administration.  The leadership that claimed to invoke revival and reformation has now formed an unholy union with  those who would work to tear down the foundations of our media and publishing institutions.

As for you, Horsethief, join the posse, put your ear to the ground and listen for the fleeing horses that we may give appropriate chase. After all, the crusade must go on.

Gailon Arthur Joy
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« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 10:07:01 PM by Gailon Arthur Joy »
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Johann

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Re: Lutheran Moral Concern
« Reply #43 on: October 06, 2010, 04:06:52 AM »

I guess your post makes me understand a little more how all this is happening then about the 3abn programming. somehow I figured that Adventists were totally mingled with 3abn. but on the other hand Johann, I feel much better not watching "Hope". I just can't get into their displaying views of foundational changing to New age looks and actions.

I don't watch HOPE very often. That might be the reason I have missed the New age looks and actions - and foundational changes.
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tinka

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Re: Lutheran Moral Concern
« Reply #44 on: October 06, 2010, 04:57:09 AM »

Fox in the henhouse,  :ROFL: that is good.  But..I don't think the "hens" know the difference in the "kind of eggs" they lay. But having a bunch of hens one time, we found them "pecking at our toes" at our presence to get "fed".
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