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[Johann]

It's the same the whole world over,
Ain't it all a blooming shame,
It's the rich wot gets the pleasure,
It's the poor wot gets the blame.

From a Song of World War I

[Johann]

It is now reported that the Lutheran parson and his bishop have reached the agreement that the parson will spend the remainder of his employment until his retirement translating literature, and that he is at liberty doing the work at his own home or at the office of the bishop. No regular pastoral duties.

[Mary Sue Smith]

Is there any documentation of this story Johann? Is it in the mainstream news in your area where you can post a link so we can read it for ourselves?

[Emma]

That may not be of much assistance if the reports are not in English

Do you have any reason to disbelieve Johann's account, Junebug?

[Johann]

Is there any documentation of this story Johann? Is it in the mainstream news in your area where you can post a link so we can read it for ourselves?

Yes, this is all in the mainstream news in our area - various newspapers, various TV stations, and various radio stations. These media will not let the parson get away with it, even though he managed to get clearance through the supreme court. Here is a link where you can read about the final agreement between the bishop and the pastor - at least you can see the picture of the parson where he's playing his cello.

http://www.visir.is/article/20091106/FRETTIR01/896057587

In case you need it for something I can give you a lot more links to the whole story. All the documents are in a language which was common in most of Northern Europe a thousand years ago, and well educated people have a reading knowledge of this language, so you should have no problem.

[Artiste]

"Munnlegt samkomulag hefur náðst milli Biskups Íslands og séra Gunnars Björnssonar fyrrverandi sóknarpests á Selfossi."

...well educated people have a reading knowledge of this language, so you should have no problem.

 

I know you're well educated, Johann...not so sure about the rest of us...

[Johann]

"Munnlegt samkomulag hefur náðst milli Biskups Íslands og séra Gunnars Björnssonar fyrrverandi sóknarpests á Selfossi."

"An oral agreement has been reached between the Bishop of Iceland and the Rev. Gunnar Björnsson,  former parson at Selfoss."

...well educated people have a reading knowledge of this language, so you should have no problem.

 

I know you're well educated, Johann...not so sure about the rest of us...

 

[Artiste]

Thanks for the translation!   

[Mary Sue Smith]

Thank you for the link Johann.

What I'd also like a link to is where this Priest is to have been quoted as saying this as you stated in your first post (copied below).

"At the same time 400 people have signed a petition requesting the young energetic and spiritual interim pastor be installed as their permanent parson. Yet the old parson states he will still demand his rights, even if he has to take the case to court. He also claims he had the full rights of kissing and caressing. . . and that this was part of his pastoral care - and of his own personal needs."

[Mary Sue Smith]

Hello Johann: I asked several days ago for another link if you don't mind. You can see it in my post above. Would you mind sending me this link?  I am reminded of the little motto you post often:

"The truth can lose nothing by close investigation."
(1888 Materials, 38)   

I guess that is what I am doing: investigating.  Thank you for providing this link.

[Johann]

Hello Johann: I asked several days ago for another link if you don't mind. You can see it in my post above. Would you mind sending me this link?  I am reminded of the little motto you post often:

"The truth can lose nothing by close investigation."
(1888 Materials, 38)   

I guess that is what I am doing: investigating.  Thank you for providing this link.

When I wrote what you are quoting the process was still going on, and I based my statements of what was current in the news at that time. Since then the case has come to a close with the Bishop offering the Rev. Gunnar a job in connection with his office. The pastor has finally accepted this assignment and therewith the case is closed. Finished. No more discussion.

Since you are so eager to investigate this closed case there is lots of material to be found on Google. Just look for Séra Gunnar Björnsson and there will be hundreds of links. There are also a number which cover what I wrote. Here is just a sample:

http://tidarandinn.is/node/114810

[Johann]

Now a Lutheran parson has been interviewed on national TV where he claims that a pastor must never break a confidential confession, and therefore he cannot notify the authorities if he finds out that someone has had a sexual affair with a minor.

Shortly after that the Lutheran Bishop disagreed, and he claims that a pastor must obey the laws and do what is essential to protect children.

The first parson states that he would rather be fired from his ministry than break the confidentiality of his parishioners.

What is your opinion?

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Our local Lutheran 65 year old parson has been suspended for almost two years. It happened when four teen age girls accused him of improper embraces, touches and kisses. Police was involved and it was decided to take two of the cases to court. The parson had a good lawyer and he was cleared of breaking the law both in the local and the state supreme court. As a result the parson is demanding that his suspension be terminated.

A number of church members threaten to leave the church if the pastor returns, and the local church board does not want him back. But the parson and his supporters demand of the bishop that he declares the parson has the legal right to his job since he has been cleared even by the State Supreme Court.

This has left the bishop in a dilemma. Finally a week ago he wrote the parson a letter requesting him to report for work in connection with the bishop's office. The parson refuses claiming he now has been cleared and has the legal rights of serving in his local church until he retires.

Last Friday evening he held a meeting in the church. The media reports that 200 of his supporters were present and that a majority of  them voted to support him in his claims.

At the same time 400 people have signed a petition requesting the young energetic and spiritual interim pastor be installed as their permanent parson. Yet the old parson states he will still demand his rights, even if he has to take the case to court. He also claims he had the full rights of kissing and caressing. . . and that this was part of his pastoral care - and of his own personal needs.

It is understood that the parson received a full salary during his suspension. The lawyer of the State Lutheran Church has stated that the bishop has the full legal rights to transfer a parson to a different job.

Would you support the bishop or the parson?

Neither deserves support from any Seventh-day Adventist.

The Bishop is Bishop of a “daughter” of the Harlot of Revelation.  They are no longer a “Protestant”  Faith  upholding the Biblical Standards and have long since closed the organizational probation.  They clearly rejected the great warning message of the second angel during the 1840’s and walked away from their protestant heritage. And Lutheranism is deeply rooted as the old official church of Norway and Iceland just as Roman Catholicism has been the official church of so many other countries of yesteryear. 

Clearly the pastor is far too concerned about his “own needs” to fulfill his duties as an “anointed of the Lord” and since he is apostate, his anointing is clearly not of the Lord. He is clearly willing to abrogate ecclesiastical  authority and step across the “protestant reformation” of Luther, breach the wall of separation and seek civil redress to an ecclesiastical issue. Will the Bishop have the backbone to face the crisis “head on”? Unlikely!!!

I would point out the Bishop’s compromise was nothing more than a replication of “Pontius Pilate” in Jerusalem, a compromise that will not satisfy either side and lead to an irreparable breach as the 200 set up their own congregational organization, which the Bishop will inevitably accept back into the Lutheran fold in time.

Now, I will point out that if the un-anointed pastor elects civil authority, it would behoove the Seventh-day Adventist organization to pursue an amicus brief, assuming the Bishop elects to assert “ecclesiastical authority”,  and support the separation of church and state, not officially recognized in Norway or Iceland.
But, I doubt we will show such fortitude and simply rest on our laurels so as not to agitate civil authority.

Yup, I declare us “wimps”!!! There is little boldness in Adventism today…but rest assured, it will get VERY MUCH BETTER in time (and I am not suggesting the Wilson administration has the needed boldness).

I do know that I do not want to support Lutheranism, except as the opportunity arises to assert the separation of church and state, if the wayward pastor elects civil authority.

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

[horsethief]

Best not differ with Gailon...  He'll take out a red book and whack you hard over the head.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Best not differ with Gailon...  He'll take out a red book and whack you hard over the head.

Admitted!!! My Red Books are READ BOOKS and would recommend you consider making that the same in your home.

And, I am proud of and eager to propogate the concept.

Remember, I am a "Radical, Right Wing, Tea Party Fundementalist" per Dr Lawrence Gerrity...and proud of it...prepared
to defend it and eager to propogate it. I am absolutely not a supporter of of those opposed to "creationism" as described
in the Fundemental Beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist church.

Are you concerned by my "fundementalism"? Or just don't like opposing views?


Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter