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[princessdi]

Unfortunately, christian, the regional conferences were created for the purposes of segregation.  Blacks of that time were already getting the message unabated.  The existing white Adventist totally believe that there should be black work.  However, they were shortsighted and didn't realize that it would mean blacks actually attending their churches, going to their hospitals, belonging to the same confences and joining  in such numbers that would soon "expect" some type of representation.  They definitely were not ready for any kind of black leadership.  So when you have stories like that of Sis Byard(sp), and others who mistaken thought that they could go to an Adventist hospital because they were Adventist, showing up at church, the conference office or ABC like they were equals..............Naw, they needed their own stuff....separate, but equal.  They definitely took a page from society(more commonly known as "the world") on that one.

Wrong, the black conferences were not created for the purpose of segregation, but rather so that the Black race in a time of racial prejudice could receive the message unabated. The point I was trying to make is the other nationalities already have their own conference, howbeit they are in there prospective  countries. And I don't know if you are referring to me or not when you say "this perpetual obsession with race and race baiting either." As you stated you come from another country so remember that when you say statements that refer to your perceived motivation for such said conversation. I do believe that in the time we live in it is most ashamed that our churches still without justification continue to be segregated for the most part. However it is not just indicative of the Seventhday Adventist church in America, but all denominations, churches and conferences across the entire United States. But among the professed remnant it is most appalling, in my opinion. Often, even in our political arena it seems that when it come to the Black and White race they seem to draw lines primarily on the basis of race in many instances. ---- I have attended the Black and White churches and have had the unique experience to have both sides talking about each other and it is ashamed. You can go into most white Adventist Churches and find prejudice to the extreme especially down south. For the most part I have found the Black churches more ready and able to except the white member and often eager for them to work. Whereas I have found that the white Church members to be suspicious of blacks and behind close doors afraid, and often try to limit their (blacks) influence. This has just been my personal experience. I know of many instances where if blacks come into a church in any great number the white members will move to another church. ------Is there a need to agitate this issue among those in the American division (absolutely) because it is evident that many a white brethren and black brethren will lose their salvation because of it (prejudice). Even when it comes to the issue of Health reform it seem to break down to racial sides. I went to one white church in the area and the pastor preached that is was a sin for Obama to spend money on Healthcare if the money wasn't there because he was robbing the next generation. Then I went back to the Black church and they said that it is everyones duty to care for those less fortunate and our duty to care for those who are sick. They (the black church) stressed the point that no nation has ever been punished for doing for the poor and caring for the sick. I believe if the two sides were working and worshiping together they would be able to more spiritually see each others side. -----The controversy even arises in the black church as to the fact that Ellen .G White is white LOL and when I heard that if really gave me a chuckle. I believe that much of the problems of the church could be eliminated if people would simply learn to worship together and love their neighbor as themselves.

[princessdi]

Right George.  it was one of the best kept secrets of Adventism.  EGW was half black......hmmmmm sounds familiar....maybe we better not say that too loud.....LOL!!!  However, truth is far toomany blacks over theyears have looked at her pics and said......."Hey she looks like Auntie Sadie..........". As a budding hair stylist, I wondered by her hair was alsys braided, and not necessarily in a way that white women wore braided hair either.  As a professional hairstylist of over 30 years, I no longer wonder about her hairstyle of choice, or those suspect nose(no I don't buy the baseball or rock explanation) and curly edges(if you want clarification, I can give it in PM, It is too much for an onboard response).   It was Elder Charles dudley who wrote the book regarding her heritage.  I did look on the internet, but found only articles that refute his claims. 


My suggestion is that if you have never been to either of her homes, you might make the trek real soon....i see a future clouded in smoke.........LOL!! Just kidding.

I agree that worshipping together could help to break down some of the mutual prejudice and supicion. As to EGW being white, have you not heard that the church admitted she was part black? I have been hearing that for a couple of years. It was kinda sad because it was like a shameful admission.

No, I was not refering to you, I was making a general abservation of what I see erupting all over the place, and it is alarming.

Now we see normal public policy decisions being debated with the race of those debating taking precedence over the content of the subject. White people who disagree with Obama on matters of policy are slurred as racist, and black people who disagree with him are called Uncle Toms. And then there are a few white people who will attack anything Obama does on the basis that he is black. In debate, the person who first gives up discussion of the subject and proceeds to attack the other person and call them names, is assumed to have no more substance to add to the debate. That is how I view what is taking place across America now.

[tinka]

Princesdi,
Just caught on the news who Serena is. I am just not into sports of any kind. I hate the competition that tries to make a name in fame better then anyone else. It simply does not appeal to me to be most important things in life. I have better things to do. I just don't see how I can get everything done that I want to accomplish before my time is up.

can you even begin to tell me what I would be jealous of?? The only thing I respect from someone else is wisdom they have that I don't. It never ends on what you can learn or be taught. So far you cannot give me any flamboyant records that MO has done that can convince me other wise then her biggie on America. I do look at her as a human being and then because she is in public office for the "time being" she is under scrutiny from all. Her mouth keeps her in much seclusion for her mistakes already. It's been embarrassment for the administration.

Like I say--from these posts I've read and the internal problem of black and white churches, I now understand more fully. Black and whites that do not have the "attitude problem" do Mingle with no problem.  The leaders see that racism is not going to stop the same as these attitudes on here have prevailed into senselessness. So there hands are pretty much tied to the advasaries of ongoing racism. Most whites of the church don't want it an neither do most of the Blacks. It is now the minority that keeps it hanging in there. and again it is the tool of the devil. Quit putting the blame on the whites. Here is fact that I can also relate too. and maybe the leadership know this too as a problem. I can tell of a mostly white church that had some wonderful African American members. We had more and more coming into the church from a larger city. It was a church with open arms. Had some medical dr. and etc. but pretty soon in came the drums, loud rapping, fast jaz and moving about. Hmmmm, wonder why the whites left?? all in the name of music? and the preacher left. It was take over time instead of just mingling. No more time for SSchool just a place to jive and give talent shows for some fame I guess....
what can the conferences do about that?  Not a thing as it is in want of balance....

[tinka]

and so what if EGW was half black? What concern was it of God's as he also chose a mulatto before Ellen to give the message but he chickened out. Maybe if I recall his name it might have been something like (fay??) did you know that? It is quite strange that EGW does mention the race of him with no pretence of worry doing it. But also in the same pretence why did she not give her background any different then she did. Race did not seem to be a problem with her. You guys come up with the strangest storys and really need to put your proof of facts out before you speak it. So now You are calling EGW a liar about her accident huh.  Yes I can now see why churches separate!!!! There is no time that you can go look for evil that you will not find it. In all her writings, she does not fabricate in the least.  Has it even occured back in those days that even the old time soaps used on hair made hair kink up and brittle?? and now you got someone writing on their whims. I wonder with the Whites finances how they even were able to buy or make soap?

[princessdi]

Great minds, Tinka.  I almost brought up the fact that most Africans tend to join the white churches when they come over to the states.  I can understand that in that along with the SDA message, there is a large does of Euro indoctrination given by the missionaries.  The church is pretty consistent that anything of African culture is from the pits of hell, and used to call demons, so when African memebers attend black churches who are practicing Adventist and also embrace the music, etc of the their African culture, then they are not comfortable there.  So it makes perfect sense for them to join white churches.  They can be sure not to find anything African there.

Tinka, I think I missed Michelle's public comments which have been an embarrassment to her husband's administration, and he sure has missed them because he is more than proud to put her int he spotlight anytime he can.

Princesdi,
Just caught on the news who Serena is. I am just not into sports of any kind. I hate the competition that tries to make a name in fame better then anyone else. It simply does not appeal to me to be most important things in life. I have better things to do. I just don't see how I can get everything done that I want to accomplish before my time is up.

can you even begin to tell me what I would be jealous of?? The only thing I respect from someone else is wisdom they have that I don't. It never ends on what you can learn or be taught. So far you cannot give me any flamboyant records that MO has done that can convince me other wise then her biggie on America. I do look at her as a human being and then because she is in public office for the "time being" she is under scrutiny from all. Her mouth keeps her in much seclusion for her mistakes already. It's been embarrassment for the administration.

Like I say--from these posts I've read and the internal problem of black and white churches, I now understand more fully. Black and whites that do not have the "attitude problem" do Mingle with no problem.  The leaders see that racism is not going to stop the same as these attitudes on here have prevailed into senselessness. So there hands are pretty much tied to the advasaries of ongoing racism. Most whites of the church don't want it an neither do most of the Blacks. It is now the minority that keeps it hanging in there. and again it is the tool of the devil. Quit putting the blame on the whites. Here is fact that I can also relate too. and maybe the leadership know this too as a problem. I can tell of a mostly white church that had some wonderful African American members. We had more and more coming into the church from a larger city. It was a church with open arms. Had some medical dr. and etc. but pretty soon in came the drums, loud rapping, fast jaz and moving about. Hmmmm, wonder why the whites left?? all in the name of music? and the preacher left. It was take over time instead of just mingling. No more time for SSchool just a place to jive and give talent shows for some fame I guess....
what can the conferences do about that?  Not a thing as it is in want of balance....

[princessdi]

Yes, I knew about God giving the message to the black man before EGW.  that is old news.  No, Ia m not saying that she was lying about the accident, but it is not why her nose is sha[ed as it is. She probably did not mention her heritage because that would mean she and James were in a biracial marriage(amd they were).....very dangerous in those days and definitely would have gotten in the way of the acceptance of her message by the church.  Remember before she wrote about it, they wern't even thinking about evangelizing blakcs.

and so what if EGW was half black? What concern was it of God's as he also chose a mulatto before Ellen to give the message but he chickened out. Maybe if I recall his name it might have been something like (fay??) did you know that? It is quite strange that EGW does mention the race of him with no pretence of worry doing it. But also in the same pretence why did she not give her background any different then she did. Race did not seem to be a problem with her. You guys come up with the strangest storys and really need to put your proof of facts out before you speak it. So now You are calling EGW a liar about her accident huh.  Yes I can now see why churches separate!!!! There is no time that you can go look for evil that you will not find it. In all her writings, she does not fabricate in the least.  Has it even occured back in those days that even the old time soaps used on hair made hair kink up and brittle?? and now you got someone writing on their whims. I wonder with the Whites finances how they even were able to buy or make soap?

[christian]

Actually, it was design to get them the message (blacks) the message and I have read what is written. While it was true that prejudice was a motivation behind it (prejudice) had slowed the advancement of the message to blacks and even funding to their evangelism.---- Now Ellen G. White would counseled a black man not to marry a white lady but find someone of his own race. So now they want us to believe that she was a product of what she counseled against. Now as far as Ellen G. White being Black I don't believe that, the Adventist Church often Generates stories to substantiate themselves. The Adventist church is growing predominately in the African nations and nations of color, all of a sudden Ellen is Black, I don't buy it. They have even changed some of her writting edited and subtracted. I have read extensively what she has written and some of it (what they say) does not correspond as to what she wrote.

[christian]

George,
It all depends on whether the wine is fermented or not. All your stars just went down the drink  Really now, you do not expect me to think you are in the right place on Advent talk do you? Why are you here? To convince Adventists that it is ok to drink fermented wine?  You have a very Keen sense of writing all in the right places with supposedly all the right answers with stars mounting up but lacking none but one. You also mentioned being very liberal so that means to me you sorta make your own rules on what to believe and how....

and Sebastian as I will not call you Christian and if your American you just might have a whim and just might know what I am referring to, as you are at the furthest point one can go. I would venture to say that you do not understand American lingo and statements or you would understand the word "chips" used in such phases. George has already admitted not born here but a  big traveler. So what are ya doing messing in US stuff or even care let alone come on a chat place of Adventists? I suppose you believe that Jesus asked for the fermented stuff too when he said I thirst on the cross.

I can picture your big fat self setting back in that big fat chair sipping your big fat wine coolers, you are great in painting your own picture, no wonder you think MO is so preeeettttttyyyyy while your big fat mouth is drooling. If fact you obviously are possessed with her. Maybe you ought to try out while sitting in their yard drinking beer as I saw ole Barrack giving a young girl a look that was so obvious shown on tv that they captured with no doubt about the look on a lot less behind.  George Bush has a picture helping out also the same way. What wonderful political moves. She is an elitist showing off!!!

and the "chips" are referring to the Black chip you got on your shoulders!! Now you can take that in different ways with different cultural background.   An American would know what I was referring too. You got a chip on your shoulder of being a racist against white.  You make up your own stories and go to your own racist churches. For all I know you guys could be terriorists! Ya got the lingo for it!!  While your sitting in your big fattness watch Obama's baby go down!! videos of Acorn are tremondous truth --out smarted by two young Americans just having some fun.....Ho, Ho, Ho....

So I get it Tinka, I am not a Christian unless I fit your definition of one? So instead I am Sabastian because you say it. Well I will not say you are not a Christian even though you don't always act like one. Even though you are jealous of the lovely Michelle Obama and jealous even of their children yet your faults are between you and God until you have to sign my check and then I will make the judgement as to whether you are a Stinker or not. You chastise me for looking at other church members and then you talked about the same thing from your perspective of the "blacks" coming to take over. Wow I guess we should all live by your standard of truth because obviously you know it all and anyone that is not up to your standard is not a Christian.

[tinka]

Sebastion, Boy are you in the red hot zone.
Your dealy beloved and her husband gave $800,000 of their campaign to their baby Acorn to bring em on home. THE CORRUPTED WAY!!!  it's coming one way or the other. If ole Reid gives us the nucular blast watch what happens next. How ya like the videos by now. How can you even think like you do if you saw the corruption in the videos.  This is what poor people do when they can get nothing else and are used for their lack of education and lo and behold look who oppressed them and taught them.....the brilliant community service leader years ago.  Their own kind, for money they became corrupt and teach the corruption.  Now that is the exact pattern of extreme evidence of how the ole devil uses to destruction. When will you wake up! It ain't color it is using lack of education against them brought on by the lying democrats that have always oppressed them for education for their own politics. Except for the Martin Luther and the Kennedy Brothers. They depend on it and then lie through their teeth what all they are going to do for the poor and use coin phases that hits their buttons for the corrupt vote. I just want to say one thing good about the democrats. Years ago they were right on the money. This is now not republican or democrats the way they were years ago. We needed the old way but that is entirely gone now.  This is just straight evil and the ones catching on are hanging on to the merry go round for dear life for the love of their country. It is almost a sure thing if the Reid nucular blast takes effect when the majority don't want it it will probably bring on the one the new world order or one world power. I just saw some more movement where BO is appointing himself to something in the UN for security of which he has no business doing. just like his 32 czars. I have the documents on it and can put it on here if I have to.  People just do not know how it is happening. Believe me it is bigger then your dream of Obamacare.

I am sure the White estate know what all this story is about. I do not believe it either any more then if you go on internet and there if not fully grounded they will convince you of all their agenda..just like she said they would in the end. and here it is....I read most of it and debated with the likes of one of those devils. and realized a mind set does not change once you give up truth or except it in any form. It is too late.

[Murcielago]

Um, actually I never said that I was not born here. I was. But I was raised elsewhere, and have spent a large portion of my life in other countries.

[tinka]

Oh George your still so likeable. I am just not a person that straddles nothing that I can help. but I am not saying I haven't been put into horrible positions and forced. I hate this sort of thing and I know perfectly well how the lack of education can force the issues with people that try to survive. The more i learn the madder I get as I know how people are being hacked out of eternity.  Our family can be included with finding correct info when too late. Our trials are many as we were honest but deceived till they had what we worked for our whole life. We felt totally rejected even from God. We just could not understand it. Now we do. We are not the only ones that this horric trauma has happened to.  Now you will see what the greenies are doing the  poor Californiaians. Their farms are bare, their land made desolute, thousands and thousand out of work and now if we want what they grew we can pay another country for it.  All over a stupid fish that can be extinct as far as most are concerned.  The story of it all will be presented on Fox tonight as Hannity go's there to report and show the people of American what is happening and show the destitution of the land. So is the fish more important then human suffering. This is happening in America??

[christian]

Oh George your still so likeable. I am just not a person that straddles nothing that I can help. but I am not saying I haven't been put into horrible positions and forced. I hate this sort of thing and I know perfectly well how the lack of education can force the issues with people that try to survive. The more i learn the madder I get as I know how people are being hacked out of eternity.  Our family can be included with finding correct info when too late. Our trials are many as we were honest but deceived till they had what we worked for our whole life. We felt totally rejected even from God. We just could not understand it. Now we do. We are not the only ones that this horric trauma has happened to.  Now you will see what the greenies are doing the  poor Californiaians. Their farms are bare, their land made desolute, thousands and thousand out of work and now if we want what they grew we can pay another country for it.  All over a stupid fish that can be extinct as far as most are concerned.  The story of it all will be presented on Fox tonight as Hannity go's there to report and show the people of American what is happening and show the destitution of the land. So is the fish more important then human suffering. This is happening in America??

In the end of time God is coming back to destroy them that destroy the earth. It is an iteresting thing that the peole who call themselves the people of God seem to have no care for the God given earth they by the love of God have been given. It was mans resposibility to love even the creatures of the earth. Now you see some of the most ruthless and Godless people (even though they confess to love for God) have little care for his creatures. Yet they say like they care for the people and suffering when in reality they are gluttons and want to drink beer but are to guilty to do so. They have a steady diet of Fox news and delusions about how they know God when they know him not. They also judge other people and set the standard based on what they think they know while all the time showing little love or compassion for the sinner who's job it is to tell of Gods love.

[christian]

I heard reported on the news that George bush had more czars than Obama, the actual number for Bush was 46. Interesting enough the far right loonies don't seem to understand that, instead they are constantly talking about Obama and his czars. And as far as the coming corruption goes he is simply trying to reverse the corruption of the Insurance companies and drug companies that prophit off of the suffering of others.  Tinka and others who hold Fox news and Insanity in high esteem will figure out to late that they have been corrupted. But what they don't understand is that Michelle and President Obama have been placed for such a time as this. I am sure that in the end they will wish that Obama was back. I can only imagine if the people that they hold is high esteem ever get in office what a mess it will be. What would it be like in this country if Tinka's people (Rush Limbaugh and Insanity) got in office. They would start the corruption that would blanket the entire world and then the end would come for all.

[tinka]

You listen to the corruption you want to hear. Pictures are facts.  Sounds as if you are hindu or budda. God created all for man and not man for all --ya all that are stupid. Man was to be good stewards of all but it was created for his use. Your type is why all the problems. God provided and gave skins for clothes to Adam and Eve. Man is too lazy to clean the land and woods so it is on fire for California's greenies. There is scripture that if man does not use it he will destroy the wood with fire. So the greenies blame their stupidness on Gore's money making Global Warming. Gore also drinks human blood for tonic. Can't tell ya how I know that or you would know who I am.. call and ask him how one would know and see how baffled he would get!!!!
Ignorance is like a disease when intentional. You have fatal disease.

[Murcielago]

I heard reported on the news that George bush had more czars than Obama, the actual number for Bush was 46. Interesting enough the far right loonies don't seem to understand that, instead they are constantly talking about Obama and his czars. And as far as the coming corruption goes he is simply trying to reverse the corruption of the Insurance companies and drug companies that prophit off of the suffering of others.  Tinka and others who hold Fox news and Insanity in high esteem will figure out to late that they have been corrupted. But what they don't understand is that Michelle and President Obama have been placed for such a time as this. I am sure that in the end they will wish that Obama was back. I can only imagine if the people that they hold is high esteem ever get in office what a mess it will be. What would it be like in this country if Tinka's people (Rush Limbaugh and Insanity) got in office. They would start the corruption that would blanket the entire world and then the end would come for all.

Its funny. Both parties curse the other for doing what they themselves do. Both the Democrats and the Republicans are filled with hypocracy and foolishness.

And if it is true that the Obamas were placed here "for such a time as this" then so were the Bushes. Obama is blanketing the world with corruption just as much as Bush or anyone who Tinka holds in high esteem would.  Each person and group seems to think that their brand of corrupt official will clean things up and make it all better, but corruption is corruption no matter what brand name is placed on it. Oh well, human nature requires us to idolize a person, and causes us to crave turning our lives over to someone better than ourselves. It relieves us of responsibility, and there will always be people who want to make the decisions for everyone else. A comfortable but sick little arrangement.