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[Murcielago]

It is a shame that we have separate conferences I am not sure why the white conference wont just blend with the black conference.

That would be partly because there are no white conferences. There are the conferences that are inclusive of everyone including black, and then there are the black conferences that are exclusively black. There are no white, hispanic, or Asian conferences.

[christian]

It is a shame that we have separate conferences I am not sure why the white conference wont just blend with the black conference.

That would be partly because there are no white conferences. There are the conferences that are inclusive of everyone including black, and then there are the black conferences that are exclusively black. There are no white, hispanic, or Asian conferences.

There is indeed a white conference and it has been that way for years. And you are not correct there is a Hispanic and an Asian conference, where are you getting your information from. I have been to Mexico, Japan, Philippians and etc. they all have there own conference. In this country with the exception of the Black conference aka Allegheny east and west there is only white conferences. The Black conference has never excluded anyone from joining, actually, we have white members in our church. The white Adventist just refuse to join but if they did the black conferences would take them back with open arms. And rightly it should be that way since the majority of the Adventist are people of color.

[Murcielago]

Lol. As you know, the conferences in the other parts of the world don't count in this discussion. The "regional conferences" are here in the USA. And the regular conferences contain the hispanic, white, and Asian churches and leadership, they are not white. There are no "regional conferences" in the NAD for any group except black. Of course I am aware that white people have joined some of their churches, but the sad fact remains that those conferences were created specifically for the black population for the express purpose of segregating them. I am appalled at this segregation. Before moving to the USA I was not even aware of segregated churches. Where I grew up everyone went to church together as equals. There were no black churches, white churches, or any other racial churches, there were Adventist churches. And I never saw this perpetual obsession with race and race baiting either. I find it absurd no matter who it comes from.

[christian]

Lol. As you know, the conferences in the other parts of the world don't count in this discussion. The "regional conferences" are here in the USA. And the regular conferences contain the hispanic, white, and Asian churches and leadership, they are not white. There are no "regional conferences" in the NAD for any group except black. Of course I am aware that white people have joined some of their churches, but the sad fact remains that those conferences were created specifically for the black population for the express purpose of segregating them. I am appalled at this segregation. Before moving to the USA I was not even aware of segregated churches. Where I grew up everyone went to church together as equals. There were no black churches, white churches, or any other racial churches, there were Adventist churches. And I never saw this perpetual obsession with race and race baiting either. I find it absurd no matter who it comes from.

Wrong, the black conferences were not created for the purpose of segregation, but rather so that the Black race in a time of racial prejudice could receive the message unabated. The point I was trying to make is the other nationalities already have their own conference, howbeit they are in there prospective  countries. And I don't know if you are referring to me or not when you say "this perpetual obsession with race and race baiting either." As you stated you come from another country so remember that when you say statements that refer to your perceived motivation for such said conversation. I do believe that in the time we live in it is most ashamed that our churches still without justification continue to be segregated for the most part. However it is not just indicative of the Seventhday Adventist church in America, but all denominations, churches and conferences across the entire United States. But among the professed remnant it is most appalling, in my opinion. Often, even in our political arena it seems that when it come to the Black and White race they seem to draw lines primarily on the basis of race in many instances. ---- I have attended the Black and White churches and have had the unique experience to have both sides talking about each other and it is ashamed. You can go into most white Adventist Churches and find prejudice to the extreme especially down south. For the most part I have found the Black churches more ready and able to except the white member and often eager for them to work. Whereas I have found that the white Church members to be suspicious of blacks and behind close doors afraid, and often try to limit their (blacks) influence. This has just been my personal experience. I know of many instances where if blacks come into a church in any great number the white members will move to another church. ------Is there a need to agitate this issue among those in the American division (absolutely) because it is evident that many a white brethren and black brethren will lose their salvation because of it (prejudice). Even when it comes to the issue of Health reform it seem to break down to racial sides. I went to one white church in the area and the pastor preached that is was a sin for Obama to spend money on Healthcare if the money wasn't there because he was robbing the next generation. Then I went back to the Black church and they said that it is everyones duty to care for those less fortunate and our duty to care for those who are sick. They (the black church) stressed the point that no nation has ever been punished for doing for the poor and caring for the sick. I believe if the two sides were working and worshiping together they would be able to more spiritually see each others side. -----The controversy even arises in the black church as to the fact that Ellen .G White is white LOL and when I heard that if really gave me a chuckle. I believe that much of the problems of the church could be eliminated if people would simply learn to worship together and love their neighbor as themselves.

[Murcielago]

I agree that worshipping together could help to break down some of the mutual prejudice and supicion. As to EGW being white, have you not heard that the church admitted she was part black? I have been hearing that for a couple of years. It was kinda sad because it was like a shameful admission.

No, I was not refering to you, I was making a general abservation of what I see erupting all over the place, and it is alarming.

Now we see normal public policy decisions being debated with the race of those debating taking precedence over the content of the subject. White people who disagree with Obama on matters of policy are slurred as racist, and black people who disagree with him are called Uncle Toms. And then there are a few white people who will attack anything Obama does on the basis that he is black. In debate, the person who first gives up discussion of the subject and proceeds to attack the other person and call them names, is assumed to have no more substance to add to the debate. That is how I view what is taking place across America now.

[tinka]

Now I understand just by watching these posts on why there are black conferences. Some must think and act like Sebastian.  His ideas  protrays that he is watching what everyone else does and is quite confused. He is still fighting the chips.  He is not self educated into true belief.  It seems it is most important to watch what is going on in other Adventist lives then just being responsible to ones self. But of course how can you get truth while wine bibbling.
It is obvious that a mind is seared when all options both religious and political are not weighed. What else can you expect from watching JUST cnn. But on the other hand whether Sebastian believes it or not the Obama Acorn baby is tumbling. There were many blacks at the 9/12 although they do not want to admit and there was also as much there as the inauguration of Obama. The pictures show the same.

You fail to understand that it was Barrack in community service to form the Acorn corruption.  Now I see the teachers union also gave to $1.5 million to Acorn and now we will watch the connections of Obamas affiliated organizations and the fitting in of his cronies to their destruction. All it will take is a little more time of investagation of where the money went. But the sealed shut will never get it............Sorta like the the deal about understanding the "paternity test" they just do not get it. You can't explain why it is not excepted by the courts. It was not done properly, there is no proof of anything until done by the law and not just getting flubbed up. IF Dr. Day did the wrong test that is another problem but so far nothing is proven because it was the wrong test proceedures that are only done  by court RULES..... But guess what they still don't get it. Let them believe what ever they want. Fact is not found yet!! and the same with political facts some false and some true. But the American backbone will stand up to this robbery.

[Murcielago]

Btw Tinka, some of of the finest, most generous, understanding and savvy people I know drink wine. Some of the most judgemental, vicious, ugly, ignorant people I know are not only Adventists, they don't drink wine. Wine has absolutely nothing to do with a person's intelligence and value. Jesus made and drank wine. Who are we to judge people for doing what he did? Furthermore, associating with, and seeking out the company of sinners is Biblical Christianity. Avoiding and valuing people in any way as being less than your self because of their supposed sins, cultures, and beliefs goes completely against everything Christ taught and lived. He put forth a person who was culturally "inferior" and religiously a heathen as being closer to himself and heaven than those who kept the law when he told the story of the good Samaritan. Romans 9 is an interesting chapter to read when we start getting judgemental about people who don't live and believe as we do.

[christian]

Now I understand just by watching these posts on why there are black conferences. Some must think and act like Sebastian.  His ideas  protrays that he is watching what everyone else does and is quite confused. He is still fighting the chips.  He is not self educated into true belief.  It seems it is most important to watch what is going on in other Adventist lives then just being responsible to ones self. But of course how can you get truth while wine bibbling.
It is obvious that a mind is seared when all options both religious and political are not weighed. What else can you expect from watching JUST cnn. But on the other hand whether Sebastian believes it or not the Obama Acorn baby is tumbling. There were many blacks at the 9/12 although they do not want to admit and there was also as much there as the inauguration of Obama. The pictures show the same.

You fail to understand that it was Barrack in community service to form the Acorn corruption.  Now I see the teachers union also gave to $1.5 million to Acorn and now we will watch the connections of Obamas affiliated organizations and the fitting in of his cronies to their destruction. All it will take is a little more time of investagation of where the money went. But the sealed shut will never get it............Sorta like the the deal about understanding the "paternity test" they just do not get it. You can't explain why it is not excepted by the courts. It was not done properly, there is no proof of anything until done by the law and not just getting flubbed up. IF Dr. Day did the wrong test that is another problem but so far nothing is proven because it was the wrong test proceedures that are only done  by court RULES..... But guess what they still don't get it. Let them believe what ever they want. Fact is not found yet!! and the same with political facts some false and some true. But the American backbone will stand up to this robbery.

Tinka,

I agree with you sabastian is a very deceived man. I don't really know Sebastian but I will take your word for it if you say he is the reason for black and white conferences. What do you mean "he is fighting his own chips?" Here is a question for you and a riddle. What word do you get when you take Tinka and add an S to the (beginning) of it? I say that not because you are that kinda person but there are people like that and obviously Sabastian is one of those people.

Obama's wife has real class in that she helps the misfortunate and worked at some soup kitchens. I could send you a picture of it if you would care to see. I think I will now recline in my chair and have a sip of wine just to calm the day down. Maybe I can schedule to go to the Whitehouse and sit on the lawn with Obama and have a beer. Tinka, if you prefer I will put it in a glass and call it wine. Tinka, do you drink? Because if you don't I find it hard to account for some of your post (smile) just kidding, I think.

[tinka]

George,
It all depends on whether the wine is fermented or not. All your stars just went down the drink  Really now, you do not expect me to think you are in the right place on Advent talk do you? Why are you here? To convince Adventists that it is ok to drink fermented wine?  You have a very Keen sense of writing all in the right places with supposedly all the right answers with stars mounting up but lacking none but one. You also mentioned being very liberal so that means to me you sorta make your own rules on what to believe and how....

and Sebastian as I will not call you Christian and if your American you just might have a whim and just might know what I am referring to, as you are at the furthest point one can go. I would venture to say that you do not understand American lingo and statements or you would understand the word "chips" used in such phases. George has already admitted not born here but a  big traveler. So what are ya doing messing in US stuff or even care let alone come on a chat place of Adventists? I suppose you believe that Jesus asked for the fermented stuff too when he said I thirst on the cross.

I can picture your big fat self setting back in that big fat chair sipping your big fat wine coolers, you are great in painting your own picture, no wonder you think MO is so preeeettttttyyyyy while your big fat mouth is drooling. If fact you obviously are possessed with her. Maybe you ought to try out while sitting in their yard drinking beer as I saw ole Barrack giving a young girl a look that was so obvious shown on tv that they captured with no doubt about the look on a lot less behind.  George Bush has a picture helping out also the same way. What wonderful political moves. She is an elitist showing off!!!

and the "chips" are referring to the Black chip you got on your shoulders!! Now you can take that in different ways with different cultural background.   An American would know what I was referring too. You got a chip on your shoulder of being a racist against white.  You make up your own stories and go to your own racist churches. For all I know you guys could be terriorists! Ya got the lingo for it!!  While your sitting in your big fattness watch Obama's baby go down!! videos of Acorn are tremondous truth --out smarted by two young Americans just having some fun.....Ho, Ho, Ho....

[tinka]

The president without a country
By Pat Boone
 
"We're no longer a Christian nation." - President Barack Obama, June 2007
 
"America has been arrogant." - President Barack Obama
 
"After 9/11, America didn't always live up to her ideals."- President Barack Obama
 
"You might say that America is a Muslim nation."- President Barack Obama, Egypt 2009
 
Thinking about these and other statements made by the man who wears the title of president. I keep wondering what country he believes he's president of.
 
In one of my very favorite stories, Edward Everett Hale's "The Man without a Country," a young Army lieutenant named Philip Nolan stands condemned for treason during the Revolutionary War, having come under the influence of Aaron Burr. When the judge asks him if he wishes to say anything before sentence is passed, young Nolan defiantly exclaims, "Damn the United States ! I wish I might never hear of the United States again!"
 
The stunned silence in the courtroom is palpable, pulsing. After a long pause, the judge soberly says to the angry lieutenant: "You have just pronounced your own sentence. You will never hear of the United States again... I sentence you to spend the rest of your life at sea, on one or another of this country's naval vessels - under strict orders that no one will ever speak to you again about the country you have just cursed."
 
And so it was. Philip Nolan was taken away and spent the next 40 years at sea, never hearing anything but an occasional slip of the tongue about America. The last few pages of the story, recounting Nolan's dying hours in his small stateroom - now turned into a shrine to the country he fore swore - never fail to bring me to tears.  And I find my own love for this dream, this miracle called America , refreshed and renewed. I know how blessed and unique we are.
 
But reading and hearing the audacious, shocking statements of the man who was recently elected our president - a young black man living the impossible dream of millions of young Americans, past and present, black and white - I want to ask him, "Just what country do you think you're president of?"
 
You surely can't be referring to the United States of America , can you? America is emphatically a Christian nation, and has been from its inception! Seventy percent of her citizens identify themselves as Christian. The Declaration of Independence and our Constitution were framed, written and ratified by Christians. It's because this was, and is, a nation built on and guided by Judeo-Christian biblical principles that you, sir, have had the inestimable privilege of being elected her president.
 
You studied law at Harvard, didn't you, sir? You taught constitutional law in Chicago ? Did you not ever read the statement of John Jay, the first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court and an author of the landmark "Federalist Papers": "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers - and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation - to select and prefer Christians for their rulers"?
 
In your studies, you surely must have read the decision of the Supreme Court in 1892: "Our lives and our institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of the Redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise; and in this sense and to this extent our civilization and our institutions are emphatically Christian."
 
Did your professors have you skip over all the high-court decisions right up till the mid 1900's that echoed and reinforced these views and intentions? Did you pick up the history of American jurisprudence only in 1947, when for the first time a phrase coined by Thomas Jefferson about a "wall of separation between church and state" was used to deny some specific religious expression - contrary to Jefferson' s intent with that statement?
 
Or, wait a minute . were your ideas about America 's Christianity formed during the 20 years you were a member of the Trinity United Church of Christ under your pastor, Jeremiah Wright? Is that where you got the idea that " America is no longer a Christian nation"? Is this where you, even as you came to call yourself a Christian, formed the belief that " America has been arrogant"?
 
Even if that's the understandable explanation of your damning of your country and accusing the whole nation (not just a few military officials trying their best to keep more Americans from being murdered by jihadists) of "not always living up to her ideals," how did you come up with the ridiculous, alarming notion that we might be "considered a Muslim nation"?
 
Is it because there are some 2 million or more Muslims living here, trying to be good Americans? Out of a current population of over 300 million, 70 percent of whom are Christians? Does that make us, by any rational definition, a "Muslim nation"?
 
Why are we not, then, a "Chinese nation"? A "Korean nation"? Even a "Vietnamese nation"? There are even more of these distinct groups in America than Muslims. And if the distinction you're trying to make is a religious one, why is America not "a Jewish nation"? There's actually a case to be made for the latter, because our Constitution - and the success of our Revolution and founding - owe a deep debt to our Jewish brothers.
 
Have you stopped to think what an actual Muslim America would be like? Have you ever really spent much time in Iran? Even in Egypt? You, having been instructed in Islam as a kid at a Muslim school in Indonesia and saying you still love the call to evening prayers, can surely picture our nation founded on the Quran, not the Judeo-Christian Bible, and living under Shariah law. Can't you? You do recall Muhammad's directives [Surah 9:5,73] to "break the cross" and "kill the infidel"?
 
It seems increasingly and painfully obvious that you are more influenced by your upbringing and questionable education than most suspected. If you consider yourself the president of a people who are "no longer Christian," who have "failed to live up to our ideals," who "have been arrogant," and might even be "considered Muslim" - you are president of a country most Americans don't recognize.
 
Could it be you are a president without a country?

[christian]

George,
It all depends on whether the wine is fermented or not. All your stars just went down the drink  Really now, you do not expect me to think you are in the right place on Advent talk do you? Why are you here? To convince Adventists that it is ok to drink fermented wine?  You have a very Keen sense of writing all in the right places with supposedly all the right answers with stars mounting up but lacking none but one. You also mentioned being very liberal so that means to me you sorta make your own rules on what to believe and how....

and Sebastian as I will not call you Christian and if your American you just might have a whim and just might know what I am referring to, as you are at the furthest point one can go. I would venture to say that you do not understand American lingo and statements or you would understand the word "chips" used in such phases. George has already admitted not born here but a  big traveler. So what are ya doing messing in US stuff or even care let alone come on a chat place of Adventists? I suppose you believe that Jesus asked for the fermented stuff too when he said I thirst on the cross.

I can picture your big fat self setting back in that big fat chair sipping your big fat wine coolers, you are great in painting your own picture, no wonder you think MO is so preeeettttttyyyyy while your big fat mouth is drooling. If fact you obviously are possessed with her. Maybe you ought to try out while sitting in their yard drinking beer as I saw ole Barrack giving a young girl a look that was so obvious shown on tv that they captured with no doubt about the look on a lot less behind.  George Bush has a picture helping out also the same way. What wonderful political moves. She is an elitist showing off!!!

and the "chips" are referring to the Black chip you got on your shoulders!! Now you can take that in different ways with different cultural background.   An American would know what I was referring too. You got a chip on your shoulder of being a racist against white.  You make up your own stories and go to your own racist churches. For all I know you guys could be terriorists! Ya got the lingo for it!!  While your sitting in your big fattness watch Obama's baby go down!! videos of Acorn are tremondous truth --out smarted by two young Americans just having some fun.....Ho, Ho, Ho....

Tinka,

   Thanks for your eloquent thought, you inspire me to be just like you.  Obama is not acorn just like you do not speak for the Adventist Church. And I can see your venom against me but why would you lump George with being a terrorist too. Really, Tinka a little wine doeth like a medicine. You need to drink wine for medicinal purposes it would help your condition if you did.

[tinka]

You are very confused with the meaning of wine. George's implication of this is people must be ok in using good judgement if they use it better then people who don't.  In bibical days the fresh squeezed fruit was called "new wine". and we should end this. Open your eyes to different roads and then choose in stead of only seeing, walking, in only one. I do not have prejudice, I am not jealous, I am not racist, I am far from perfect, I am interested in welfare of people and what has been done to them by deceit and deceivement. I do not care what MO looks like but look at back ground of where their coming from. It is a duty, and honor and priviledge to live in this US.  People that do not know what is going on should not even vote. It is better not to vote if you cannot do it with at least a good try at discerning good judgement of character. Many people were also not watching including myself when GW was elected. I was barn sided by sympathy for the oppressed and tortured people and my only thought was to vote again to have it stopped. In the back ground the only thing I see wrong with GW was now in backsight he could have stopped the gas robbery, but now i realize he was in the oil people at least one of them when his attention to do something about the Freddie Mac and Frannie Mae, Barney Frank's self centered and unethical monetary involvements ---it was too late and therefore gets the blame but now it is being steam pressured into infinity and the people are now able to see the corruption through all organizations that the money has been funneled into. They are starting to follow the dollar. It helped no poor, it helped the corruption become more corrupt. Then there is the BO comunity service job started way back when the brilliant young used his talent to form an organization to help  corrupt the voting to swing the elections when all the voting machines were being redone. Therefore it was premeditated for future trauma of the US. It had nothing to do with color and the crazy other president called Carter that started color difference that helped egg it on.  Are you going to be able to be forced to pay 13% more of your income for forced insurance? These details will come at a surprise as you think it is all gov paid.
I do not know how poor people will do it. The small businesses will not be able to pay it for employees. Therefore the more jobs will go as they are fast fleeting now with the uncertainity of what is coming. If it comes, and the opposition does not win out, there will finally be no jobs except what the cronies got. We were in business and it was tough as it was as you pay out double for each employee for their benefits.

One thing I do know too, that you cannot get to heaven by justifying, all sins that we are told to obstain from and then come up with the deal, well I did not understand it. The fact is that one does not want to understand it.

[princessdi]

First of all, Tinka, I want to thank you for you much improved tone. It is much appreciated.  I am now happy to respond to your post.

Princessdi
I read the article, I am not sure I can believe that because I do not know the author's agenda for writing it. I do not know if the author might be black and this just another one of those history tales that can bring on the accomplished effects that it is portraying. In fact that is the very thing I am talking about to finally let history lie down. I am not saying this did not happen but then I would have to have more proof that it actually did. It sort of amazes me that anyone that believes the church did this that they would actually stay in the church and try to teach that particular church to other people. I know and realize all the injustice that has been done but when one cannot overcome it and still live it over and over I do not see how that can help anyone overcome the entanglement of Satan and his tool. This has been one of his greatest feats.  And yet when the Black race spills their oppression out they intern feel and think horrible disgrace because America tried to stop the oppression of another race. I just do not get it. There was those that tried to stop the oppression of the blacks too. That is why being an old yankee woman I felt the war was needed. Especially seeing and visualizing the terror of death and oppression to the people in the east. Can you give any reason for this difference.

First of all, for us to remember and even talk about the horrors that have been done against Africans Americans, does not mean we are stuck. Offenders ofter don't want to hear about their past behavior.  They are usually in rush for you to "get over it".  i can also tell you that it might be brought up a lot less if America could not easily fall into the same old habits, as there are many who would welcome that revival.

Another reason it is still discussed, is that those times had far reaching effects on the African American community.  Not anything that could not be fixed, but far too many of the in equities have not.  We are told that now that we are "equal' we need to to like everyone else, get over it, and pul ourselves up by our boot straps.  Problem is, many of us are starting without boots, let along boot straps....and there is still the subtle(and some not so subtle) racism that pervades our country within housing and employment.  I can understand your confusion, because it is only history for you, however, it is heritage for us.  That is the difference in a nutshell.  Also, do you really believe tha Adventist Review would print such a story, if it were not true?  The author could write all day, but the Review thought is important and truth enough to print for the World Wide church to read.

You have misunderstood me entirely in my beliefs and knowing this tool is from the devil I "will not acknowledge it". It is evil. I want no part of it. I do not like it brought up. It is a way of life that is not good for anyone. I consider all human birth the creation of God until they try to mess it up. I am not going to be accountable for bringing it up and bringing it up.  It is the same thing with people that love to display the cross, wear the cross, --It is sadness, it is heartwrenching, it is to know what was done to Jesus that suffered on it. It is too hard to bear. The land it happened on is not holy. but yet made money off when that land and people do not even believe Jesus is the Son. How ridiculous. So is racism. But people will not let it die so all can live in harmony. But yet I know that will only be in a perfect world. I am responsible only for my self and therefore I choose  not to do what I know Jesus never wanted.  It is history and yes I know there are still red necks out there. But it makes it worse when the recism changes from white to black!!!

Once again, Tinka, I underestand your fear.  you are afraid of a black President who will give a chance, housing, jobs, health insurance to those who are disinfranchaised in these areas.  The fear comes from the fact that these people have been deemed as lazy, etc. and that is why they don't have these things.   It's true, some are no good, lazy, and not even trying.  However, there are many more who are silently trying to make their way, and they deserve the break, that will allow them to pull themselves up.  They will work for what they need, if allowed to work.  They would go to the Dr. long before they become critical, if they could, etc. But some are so afraid tht this may help some that they have deemed "undeserving' that you are willing to toss all to the wolves and go for the survival of the fittest, which is not fair at all whem a significant percentage start out with a handicap.

also I am not a perfect person either. But I am not going to lose heaven because I did not take the time to read, understand and cherish the last message given to a last day people. I know there is a type of sin that we constantly regret and just about die inside with it but then there is intentional sin when we know beyond doubt. Some of the posting i have seen on here is much intentional and justification of why they do it especially when we have been shown the reasons why we should not go there. Some seem trivial and yes i have respect for truth only. 

As far as the article of an educated women speaking the truth and as a person that sees facts before belief this woman has her facts from her extreme intelligence of actual history from all the top college of the nation she is quite remarkable as God has kept her mind clear from the screwed up professors that taught liberalism. Her mind stayed focused. Now if you want to hear a screwed up person look at the next czar that obama has chosen. We all have something to worry about now.

Once agian, Tinka, you believe that because her conclusions agree with yours.  I know this because you assume I do not have the same knowledge, because I disagree with your.  Once again, you mistakenly assime that everyone who reads the same information will arrive at the same conclusion.

I know what bills are going down, I read them. I have the bills sent and know what they say. My husband and I both study them with him being very well educated in Environmental law and business. That is why one congressman yelled out. You lie. Unless you read and do that one cannot possibly know what is going down your just listening to talk. Sort of like at times when i see you finally read something and then comment as you just did on other post then I know you took another look to your surprise. 

 It does seem like the time of trouble is coming as many are completely unaware the forming of the opposition.  I compare it to  what I have read in our books. I know what has been done to us by government corruptions first hand. It is deadly, I know the agenda, we know some of the politicians, we know the control, we know how it works. It came from both parties and now we know what individuals are for the people and which are the ones against whats right for America. The whole conglomerations is almost gone and no turning back. Anyone that works for the people are hacked. The evil is becoming more and more powerful. If you do not believe this you are wasting too much time not to educate yourself of facts before you speak.

I know that the bible says that God will allow satan to do his worst.  The key part of that is that "God will allow". I just remember that Who is in control, and I don't have to worry about what satan is doing.  I didn't say I was unaware of it or even that he is not doing his worst,  but that I don't have to worry about it, fear anything that he does, because if I am in relationship with Jesus Christ I don't have to fear anything......"God does not send the spirit of fear".........."...The Lord is the strength of my life.....of whom then shall I be afraid". I dont' have to fear because I accept the sacrifice of Jesus for my sins, and realize that He is already victorious....therefore making me "more than a conqueror".  Why would I fear this particular created being, when I know fromt he Bible that he can do nothing except that God allows him?

For instance you finally decided that this episode is from very strange people. It is not only strange but enough evidence that it is totally corrupt. Then there is the justifiers of the antics of the paternity test. Believe it, you got it right when you finally got how it happened. Then they came back on to justify all the shenanigans. The most import fact on this Di is this. If it was christian, if it was all in according with God's works IT WOULD NOT ANY OF IT HAPPENED AND NONE OF THIS WOULD BE GOING ON. But it is and I have followed all the documents since it started then after 2 years made comments of total disgust of misuse of funds and what is worse was the 'Swaggart replicas, while others protect.  Most of them are as flaky as pie.  There is nothing anyone can do to justify any of this. Everyone that has a good reason for why it all happened and what manner it happened is just plain out of touch with the right side of things.  Personal business you think, Well it is public business, because it is public money stole with lies. IF it was you how many  could you feed comfortably.  I wonder if you helped feed them too like i did? I know how much 4 would cost and did it for our children. After much thought, it was time wasted, clubs, money, work and feed and hay. It was play time but it was our own money. Had to be on long trip today from Chicago to home and thought I might make some things a little clearer but I positively know my talent is not in speaking as clear as I would like for the correct understanding. But guess my nature is straight forward without the tack and now old. How is that for an example of justification?

See, now this is where we agree. I, too, have been following this(not by choice) since the beginning. In fact, it was Danny who dragged BSDA in by coming there to lie and in an attempt to intimidate. I believe him to be just as crooked as they come.  Do I believe that God gave him the 3ABN ministry...yes.......do I believe that Danny abused that ministry.....yep!...Do I believe that Danny and Brandi wer having an affair long before the end of he and Linda's marraige and Linda foolishly provided a rather convenient excuse for his to leave their marrige with an "advantage".......absolutely!........and here's the kicker, do I believe that God gave Danny this ministry knowing all along that he more than likely would make the wrong choices......yes indeedee!  Therefore, God has a plan for this.  He knew Danny did wrong when he thought to do wrong.  I don't say we are not to acknowledge or even question the wrong doings at 3ABN because it is about collecting donated funds and accountability. Danny/3ABN should be accountable because they promised/pledge somethings when approaching contributors(partners,ete. whatever they are called) for support.  However, you all croosed thed line.  Danny, I am sure is still involved in 3ABN, but what did the paternity of Brandi's youngest daughter have to do with the price of rice in China?  Then even if you believe that was in order, why did you all insist on a process that would further trauatize the child?  Dr. Day and the rest of you really did want pictures of the minor child to post on the internet.  That does not seem off to you?  No matter the circumstances of her birth,the child is innocent in all of this.  It is not the people who I believe are strange the this entire situation.  I still tryna figure out the parking lot move.......with the entire campus of 3ABN at his disposal, Danny could do no better than that, is just amazing to  me. 

[princessdi]

Tinka, Tinka, Tinka....put down that pitcher of haterade and step back!  Michelle, really turns your eyes green, doesn't she?  Ok and FYI, Serena Williams is one half of a dynamic ladies tennis sister duo, they also happen to be African American.  you should at least tryto to keep up, to you can follow the conversation.

Here ya go!  http://www.serenawilliams.com/

Sabastian,

It is appearing more and more that you do not have American roots or your parents have raised you with this evil racism that will get you no where. I do not even know who Serena is or heard of her. If she is on the tv my only interest is some of Hope channel and the news. You must watch the rest of the garbage and therefore that is why you are not educated in other matters.

As far as your hang up on jealousy, she has nothing and I say nothing to be jealous of. She could not even carry out her previous employment.  She is ruthless and domineering and incredibly funny dressed. I imagine it does take a lot of money to find a designer to camouflage her funny apparel for her back yard and make up.  I saw her without and she is no better then the rest of us. She is no beauty, body wise or facial with her jaw that sticks out farther then her whole face. and to be more spacific I consider beauty in refinment, goodness, cultured, meek, humble,poise, education and manners. I thought MIke Huckabee wife was the beauty.  Check out MO education. It is no better then Obamas. Did you realize that JC Pickens had to tell BO that 18 wheelers could not be run by battery. Te HE Te He.  Time is moving on and more corruption is unfolding by the day.

[princessdi]

The reason the conferences have not "blended" is because there has only been one option suggested, which is that the white conferences basically absorb the black conference, causing everyone now working at the black conference to become unemployed.  To my knowledge, there is no option to actually "blend" by choosing the best from each group for every position in the new blended conference.  However, for the most part President Paulsen has jsut rename it cultural diversity and has no intention of changing it.  i can see where it would be a difficult thing, because it would mean a huge loss of employment in every Union in NAD except PUC.

Not to mention that the conditions still exists within the church.  Afterall, so far they have written at leasst three articles in the Review about accepting President Obama and we still have people who believe as Tinka does.

I just watched Cnn tonight and the were saying that a large number of those participating in the tea party have expressed racist attitudes especially when it comes to blacks, they CNN seemed to say it as though that was a suprise. As I have said in the past a lot of what is motivating protest and the like has a lot to do with the fact that Obama is black. I have never implied that everyone is prejudice but I am saying that there is a larger group of prejudice people than we want to acknowledge. And some are prejudice and don't even know it, that goes for blacks and whites. The tea party members are 99.9 percent white. ----------- It is a shame that we have separate conferences I am not sure why the white conference wont just blend with the black conference.