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[Pat Williams]

So, to be clear, there should not be financial fillings and reports with Jim Gilley's name as president until they filed in 2009 for financial filings and reports in 2008.

I feel I need to say this here: Although I may not always agree with you, I certainly do appreciate and applaud your uncompromising way of addressing all and trying to get to the bottom of the issues and establish things here. Thank you. I know it doesn't always earn you the popularity vote., but I like that. (Actually, your post here is the only thing which made me change my mind about posting further here.) So, in reply and to be as clear here, and as honest as I can; I really don't personally know all the specifics regarding all the filings and due dates, Princessdi. I wish I could be more precise.

The truth is some  may have been due in 2008, while others would have been due in 2009. 3ABN, has various licensing in different states, and even countries around the world in relation to their broadcasts and the years which each require reports for vary because their fiscal or annual/biannual report dates are each different. What I do know is that it is 3ABN's financial officers job to be apprised  of and knowledgeable about all of that and that Ewing has the highest recommendations and track record and steller character references, and that even Gailon joy posted here to that effect when Ewing had to resign due to family issues unrelated to his job. Because of that and more, I believe he knew what he was doing and filing and why.

That make perfect sense to me.  I just have one question.  What would happen for 2007 when they both served, would that just be noted when Pastor Gilley to over?
Having someone what of a finance background, this is just a question for information sake.[/color]

Please bear with me here. Usually only one report can be filed a year. and Mr Pickle was correct when he quoted the state of Michigan requirements:

"Q.  If the corporation officers and/or directors change after I file my report, do I need to file another report for the same year?

A.  Only one filing is required for each report year.  The updated information would be provided on the next report owed by the corporation.  The information on the report or statement (officers/directors, purposes, resident agent, registered office, etc.) should reflect information as of the due date of the report."

The info did indeed need to reflect the current info as of the report. I believe and think it did. I believe the problem with Bob's understanding and POV is based on the fact that he misunderstood, and still does. Yes, 3abn announced on a September 6, 2007 broadcast that Jim Gilley had been asked to be the new President of 3abn and that he had accepted that request,  and so according to the vote of the 3abn board he was the new 3abn President. What Pickle fails to understand is that Jim Gilley did not take over the next day. He fails to understand or consider that there was an interim period, and that during that period, [actually just 20 dys later] Larry Ewing filed his report on September 26, 2007. During that interim period Danny Shelton continued to both be and act as President, while Jim Gilley was trained in his new job and position..

This concept, and the way it worked, are really not so hard to understand if you think about and consider both the election and the inauguration of our own U.S. Presidents. Our new President is voted in and declared the new President after the Nov 4th elections, but he does not actually take office or begin to act as such until after his own training/the interim periods between Presidents is over. That occurs when things are actually handed over to him months later in January of the new year.

It is my belief this was the case with the 3abn presidents also, and the messages of the 3abn presidents in the 3abn publication "3abn world" reflects this changing of the guard. Danny Shelton continued to write them even after Jim Gilley was announced as the new President, and then Jim Gilley took over and has been doing so ever since. All of this, I can and do believe accounts for apparent discrepancy's in dates and reports of who the 3abn president is and was.

I hope and pray this all makes perfect sense also.

In any case, Happy Sabbath, Princessdi.


3D

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

You certainly major in minutia, Mr Pickle. This is all I have to say here as this whole topic is just plain ridiculous and petty, and a waste of time to me. Most normal people who have had any kind of dealings with financial filings and reports (such as Ewing - for one) know that annual filings are usually filed for the previous fiscal year. Fact: Danny Shelton was the acting President in 2006, and for most of 2007 as reported in 2007. You shouldn't have even expected to find Jim Gilley listed until the following year.  Again, move on, and stop trying to make mountains out of molehills and create problems when there really aren't any.

It is eactly this kind of "minutia" that sends wall street magnates and fraudsters to jail based upon filings to the SEC and various federal agencies. Now explain to me how an officer that ended his role in August 2007 would be signing as an officer in 2008? And explain to me how Brian Hamilton would not know better? My curiosity is just killing the cat!!!


Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

[Bob Pickle]

Danny led people to believe that Jim Gilley had taken over as president and CEO at the beginning of September 2007. Ewing's filing at the end of September said otherwise.

But Hamilton's filing in April 2008, in which Hamilton said he had taken over Ewing's position, still said Danny was president. But Gilley had allegedly been president much longer than Hamilton had been treasurer by that point in time.

[Cindy]

Danny led people to believe that Jim Gilley had taken over as president and CEO at the beginning of September 2007. Ewing's filing at the end of September said otherwise.

But Hamilton's filing in April 2008, in which Hamilton said he had taken over Ewing's position, still said Danny was president. But Gilley had allegedly been president much longer than Hamilton had been treasurer by that point in time.

Bob, It bears repeating, that the IRS investigated 3abn, and found nothing wrong, no errors or discepencies needing to be corrected and certainly no crimes or fraud as you 2 would have all believe.I don't think either you or Gailon want to understand. The explanation provided earlier to you:

You certainly major in minutia, Mr Pickle. This is all I have to say here as this whole topic is just plain ridiculous and petty, and a waste of time to me. Most normal people who have had any kind of dealings with financial filings and reports (such as Ewing - for one) know that annual filings are usually filed for the previous fiscal year. Fact: Danny Shelton was the acting President in 2006, and for most of 2007 as reported in 2007. You shouldn't have even expected to find Jim Gilley listed until the following year.  Again, move on, and stop trying to make mountains out of molehills and create problems when there really aren't any."

does make perfect sense, and is demonstrated perfectly in these image clips from the 2007 form 990 filed by 3abn.

Note the dates being reported for:

[Cindy]

(I am sorry I had to post my reply in 2 parts due to file limits set by the forum)

Now please notice:

The above is the form filed for the year ending December 2007

Brian Hamilton is listed as the Financial officer.
Danny Shelton is listed as 3abn President.
But it is signed by the 3abn President, Jim Gilley.
And the date the form was filed and signed was November 2008.

And please note that is all perfectly correct and legal whether you choose to get it or not...

[Bob Pickle]

Danny led people to believe that Jim Gilley had taken over as president and CEO at the beginning of September 2007. Ewing's filing at the end of September said otherwise.

But Hamilton's filing in April 2008, in which Hamilton said he had taken over Ewing's position, still said Danny was president. But Gilley had allegedly been president much longer than Hamilton had been treasurer by that point in time.

Bob, It bears repeating, that the IRS investigated 3abn, and found nothing wrong, no errors or discepencies needing to be corrected and certainly no crimes or fraud as you 2 would have all believe.

Cindy, it bears repeating that no one has produced a shred of evidence to that effect. Got any evdience? Then roll it out!

Besides, such is absolutely impossible. Danny's reporting horses as cash donations (probably inflated) in 2003 is more than simply a discrepancy.

does make perfect sense, and is demonstrated perfectly in these image clips from the 2007 form 990 filed by 3abn.

Note the dates being reported for:

And read the instructions for that form, Cindy. You'll find that Jim Gilley's name should have appeared on the list in the attachment if he had been a director or officer at any point in time in 2007. Gilley's name isn't even on the list. So according to the list, Gilley falsely signed the 990, falsely claiming to be the president and CEO of 3ABN. Or, according to his signature, when he signed it saying that to the best of his knowledge and belief everything was correct, why didn't he notice that his name wasn't in the list of officers and directors in the attachment, and that the form wasn't correct after all?

And you want us to believe that the IRS found no errors or discrepancies? Even folk who don't work for the IRS can find errors and discrepancies in 3ABN's filings.

[Bob Pickle]

(I am sorry I had to post my reply in 2 parts due to file limits set by the forum)

Now please notice:

The above is the form filed for the year ending December 2007

Brian Hamilton is listed as the Financial officer.

No, the form lists Larry Ewing as Treasurer, not Brian Hamilton.

[Cindy]

(I am sorry I had to post my reply in 2 parts due to file limits set by the forum)

Now please notice:

The above is the form filed for the year ending December 2007

Brian Hamilton is listed as the Financial officer.

No, the form lists Larry Ewing as Treasurer, not Brian Hamilton.

Bob, Larry Ewing is listed as Treasurer in the same place Danny Shelton is listed as President.... Under the heading which says:

990 SUPPLIMENTAL INFORMATION
YEAR ENDING DECEMBER 31, 2007

STATEMENT 9 FORM 990 PART V-A
LIST OF OFFICERS, DIRECTORS, TRUSTEES, AND KEY EMPLOYEES

But above that on line 91A where the current info has to be supplied, just as a current officer, Jim Gilley signed it all, ... it says " The books are in the care of: Brian Hamilton Located at:" and then lists both 3abn's physical and mailing address.

As I said you quite obviously don't want to understand, and so be it, but I at least wanted to come back and point this out in case you confuse others with your arguments because you also quite obviously did not see, or did not want to see, this attachment which was in my post. So I am attaching it here again.

Now I am done here on this subject.
Merry Christmas to both you and your family, Bob.

[princessdi]

Thank you, 3D.  There are things about both sides of this issues that make absolutely no sense to me., so I question it all, in order to get a better understanding of the entire picture. 

Yes your answer makes perfect sense, and is as I thought.  3ABN need to record accuately who was president when the financial records were created for that particular year.  Pastor Gilley had not yet taken the helm, so the financial records was created on Danny's watch, his name goes on the reports.  Simple!

I feel I need to say this here: Although I may not always agree with you, I certainly do appreciate and applaud your uncompromising way of addressing all and trying to get to the bottom of the issues and establish things here. Thank you. I know it doesn't always earn you the popularity vote., but I like that. (Actually, your post here is the only thing which made me change my mind about posting further here.) So, in reply and to be as clear here, and as honest as I can; I really don't personally know all the specifics regarding all the filings and due dates, Princessdi. I wish I could be more precise.
The info did indeed need to reflect the current info as of the report. I believe and think it did. I believe the problem with Bob's understanding and POV is based on the fact that he misunderstood, and still does. Yes, 3abn announced on a September 6, 2007 broadcast that Jim Gilley had been asked to be the new President of 3abn and that he had accepted that request,  and so according to the vote of the 3abn board he was the new 3abn President. What Pickle fails to understand is that Jim Gilley did not take over the next day. He fails to understand or consider that there was an interim period, and that during that period, [actually just 20 dys later] Larry Ewing filed his report on September 26, 2007. During that interim period Danny Shelton continued to both be and act as President, while Jim Gilley was trained in his new job and position..

This concept, and the way it worked, are really not so hard to understand if you think about and consider both the election and the inauguration of our own U.S. Presidents. Our new President is voted in and declared the new President after the Nov 4th elections, but he does not actually take office or begin to act as such until after his own training/the interim periods between Presidents is over. That occurs when things are actually handed over to him months later in January of the new year.

It is my belief this was the case with the 3abn presidents also, and the messages of the 3abn presidents in the 3abn publication "3abn world" reflects this changing of the guard. Danny Shelton continued to write them even after Jim Gilley was announced as the new President, and then Jim Gilley took over and has been doing so ever since. All of this, I can and do believe accounts for apparent discrepancy's in dates and reports of who the 3abn president is and was.

I hope and pray this all makes perfect sense also.

In any case, Happy Sabbath, Princessdi.


3D

[Bob Pickle]

Thank you, 3D.  There are things about both sides of this issues that make absolutely no sense to me., so I question it all, in order to get a better understanding of the entire picture. 

Yes your answer makes perfect sense, and is as I thought.  3ABN need to record accuately who was president when the financial records were created for that particular year.  Pastor Gilley had not yet taken the helm, so the financial records was created on Danny's watch, his name goes on the reports.  Simple!

Di,

When Brian Hamilton told the state of Florida in April 2008 that Danny was still president, Jim Gilley had already told the FCC that he was president, and that Danny was vice-president.

So Danny_Defender's explanation is inadequate.

[princessdi]

But why was he saying that? Was it in reference to financial records for 2007? Or when Danny was president?  Or in response to something dealing with the then present day to day operations of 3ABN?  That type of comment almost always has a context.

Di,

When Brian Hamilton told the state of Florida in April 2008 that Danny was still president, Jim Gilley had already told the FCC that he was president, and that Danny was vice-president.

So Danny_Defender's explanation is inadequate.

[Wendall]

Getting right to the point what was the intent to maybe give false information. Was it with the intent to misrepresent the actual state of affairs and cause a reliance by another party causing damamge or was it just a slight case of misinformation between staff ie. lack of communication with no criminal or tort intent.

[Bob Pickle]

But why was he saying that? Was it in reference to financial records for 2007? Or when Danny was president?  Or in response to something dealing with the then present day to day operations of 3ABN?  That type of comment almost always has a context.

On that form, Brian Hamilton reported that he had replaced Larry Ewing as treasurer. Ewing left long after Gilley arrived. Brian arrived long after Gilley arrived.

So your question as to whether it was in reference to 2007 financial records has to be "No," since Hamilton wasn't even there in 2007.