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[Daryl Fawcett]

Excellent post!!!!! 

Come on, Pastor Johann.  You know not even having you speak, you are one of my fav SDA pastors, just by the example of your life I have come to know in the passed 5-6 years.  But you have got to be kidding me!   

You know whatever we do, we need to do all "to the glory of God" and with His love.  That includes calling sin by its name.  Now, I have personally said that I believe that Danny is just shady as they come, but no one....NO ONE....can ever say I was mean, cruel, or disrespectful.  The same can be said about you.  GJ is ALL of that, and there is NO love in his posts. He insults people, calls them names. etc.  It is not what he is trying to say, but how he is saying it.  He really should dial it back about 50 notches.  It doesn't make anyone change their mind or come to the understanding he is trying to bring.  It just makes them not want to talk to him any further.  That is a shame, because much of the time he does have truth on his side.  However, if he is being abusive, disruptive, and down right obnoxious, nobody is going to hear the truth.  So in that respect he is defeating his own purpose.

Remember, disagreeing WITHOUT, being disagreeeable.  BTW, this goes for all those who post such toxic posts....on both sides.

Seems like I was 7 years old the first time I read much of the Old Testament. In those Scriptures I discovered men who were not afraid of calling sin by its right name. In a way I was horrified by it - just like some people seem horrified by reading GJ. Being familiar now with the language of Scripture I see the similarities, even if I might try to refine my own language.

Which forum is for those who accept the Scriptures? Only certain portions of the Old Testament? Only the New Testament? Only what pleases themselves? Only what pleases xx or zz? Take you pick!

[Johann]

I like you too, Di. I suppose you have read the following passages?

Numbers 32:14
"And here you are, a brood of sinners, standing in the place of your fathers and making the LORD even more angry with Israel."

2 Kings 5:27
"Naaman's leprosy will cling to you and to your descendants forever." Then Gehazi went from Elisha's presence and he was leprous, as white as snow.

Was there a worse curse than leprosy? Just because Gehazi had behaved somewhat like a certain man we have been dealing with. . . Elisha told him off!

What did Jesus say?

Matthew 23:23-28 (New International Version)

 23"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

 25"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

 27"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

Here are just a few samples from Scripture. Aren't they terrible?

When I was a young pastor some of my seniors were a particular breed who spoke quite a bit like GJ to people who they thought were not following the blueprint. Back in those days we were winning souls in the Western World. When we reached the pinnacle in soul winning in my area around 1960 most of us started speaking softly and very very considerate of those we disagreed with. At the same time our soul winning plummeted and soon we were baptizing less than the number we lost.

Are we really too nice today to warn people of the impending destruction and the Coming of the Lord? Shouldn't we rather let them perish in comfort? Is it the purpose of our websites to make people comfortable in their sins? Do people who seem very serious not show the love of God when they "shout" a warning?

We have a granddaughter who is so "nice" to her brothers that she will ask them if they'd consider not being so noisy. Not all people have that "gift". How do we teach them?

Come on, Pastor Johann.  You know not even having you speak, you are one of my fav SDA pastors, just by the example of your life I have come to know in the passed 5-6 years.  But you have got to be kidding me!   

You know whatever we do, we need to do all "to the glory of God" and with His love.  That includes calling sin by its name.  Now, I have personally said that I believe that Danny is just shady as they come, but no one....NO ONE....can ever say I was mean, cruel, or disrespectful.  The same can be said about you.  GJ is ALL of that, and there is NO love in his posts. He insults people, calls them names. etc.  It is not what he is trying to say, but how he is saying it.  He really should dial it back about 50 notches.  It doesn't make anyone change their mind or come to the understanding he is trying to bring.  It just makes them not want to talk to him any further.  That is a shame, because much of the time he does have truth on his side.  However, if he is being abusive, disruptive, and down right obnoxious, nobody is going to hear the truth.  So in that respect he is defeating his own purpose.

Remember, disagreeing WITHOUT, being disagreeeable.  BTW, this goes for all those who post such toxic posts....on both sides.

Seems like I was 7 years old the first time I read much of the Old Testament. In those Scriptures I discovered men who were not afraid of calling sin by its right name. In a way I was horrified by it - just like some people seem horrified by reading GJ. Being familiar now with the language of Scripture I see the similarities, even if I might try to refine my own language.

Which forum is for those who accept the Scriptures? Only certain portions of the Old Testament? Only the New Testament? Only what pleases themselves? Only what pleases xx or zz? Take you pick!

[tinka]

I like you too, Di. I suppose you have read the following passages?

Numbers 32:14
"And here you are, a brood of sinners, standing in the place of your fathers and making the LORD even more angry with Israel."

2 Kings 5:27
"Naaman's leprosy will cling to you and to your descendants forever." Then Gehazi went from Elisha's presence and he was leprous, as white as snow.

Was there a worse curse than leprosy? Just because Gehazi had behaved somewhat like a certain man we have been dealing with. . . Elisha told him off!

What did Jesus say?

Matthew 23:23-28 (New International Version)

 23"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

 25"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

 27"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

Here are just a few samples from Scripture. Aren't they terrible?

When I was a young pastor some of my seniors were a particular breed who spoke quite a bit like GJ to people who they thought were not following the blueprint. Back in those days we were winning souls in the Western World. When we reached the pinnacle in soul winning in my area around 1960 most of us started speaking softly and very very considerate of those we disagreed with. At the same time our soul winning plummeted and soon we were baptizing less than the number we lost.

Are we really too nice today to warn people of the impending destruction and the Coming of the Lord? Shouldn't we rather let them perish in comfort? Is it the purpose of our websites to make people comfortable in their sins? Do people who seem very serious not show the love of God when they "shout" a warning?

We have a granddaughter who is so "nice" to her brothers that she will ask them if they'd consider not being so noisy. Not all people have that "gift". How do we teach them?

Come on, Pastor Johann.  You know not even having you speak, you are one of my fav SDA pastors, just by the example of your life I have come to know in the passed 5-6 years.  But you have got to be kidding me!   

You know whatever we do, we need to do all "to the glory of God" and with His love.  That includes calling sin by its name.  Now, I have personally said that I believe that Danny is just shady as they come, but no one....NO ONE....can ever say I was mean, cruel, or disrespectful.  The same can be said about you.  GJ is ALL of that, and there is NO love in his posts. He insults people, calls them names. etc.  It is not what he is trying to say, but how he is saying it.  He really should dial it back about 50 notches.  It doesn't make anyone change their mind or come to the understanding he is trying to bring.  It just makes them not want to talk to him any further.  That is a shame, because much of the time he does have truth on his side.  However, if he is being abusive, disruptive, and down right obnoxious, nobody is going to hear the truth.  So in that respect he is defeating his own purpose.

Remember, disagreeing WITHOUT, being disagreeeable.  BTW, this goes for all those who post such toxic posts....on both sides.

Seems like I was 7 years old the first time I read much of the Old Testament. In those Scriptures I discovered men who were not afraid of calling sin by its right name. In a way I was horrified by it - just like some people seem horrified by reading GJ. Being familiar now with the language of Scripture I see the similarities, even if I might try to refine my own language.

Which forum is for those who accept the Scriptures? Only certain portions of the Old Testament? Only the New Testament? Only what pleases themselves? Only what pleases xx or zz? Take you pick!

The teachers of the Law are referring to the lawyers, and the Pharicees who were the preachers. The two worst offenders of society and that is who Jesus got on the worst. Called them snakes and vipers and theives.

[mrst53]

No wonder there are so many jokes about lawyers   Jesus started it!

[tinka]

Jesus knew 

[mrst53]

I just posted a new joke under Jokes

[princessdi]

And you know, Tinka, I thought about this very example as I typed my posts.  Difference is, HE IS Jesus.  GJ is not talking directly to Danny, but in actuality to those GJ(and the rest of us) feel are being mislead by Danny.  Jesus never talked to the people that way, just those responsible for putting them in the state they were in.  For distorting and corrupting the system, He gave them so badly, that it no longer served it's purpose in pointing to His Coming and impending Sacrifice for them.

Ok missed your first response.  You know Tinka, God seem to lose patience with the COI manytimes int he OT.  After all, howmany times did He deliver them from captivity only to have them turn around and be unfaithful, falling into "spiritual adultery(the correct usage)" again and again.  During their waundering itneh wilderness, Moses had to plead for God not to leave them, and for their very lives.  But once again......HE IS God.  What has GJ done for all these people he berates that he can talk to them like that?  Until he starts doing some of those things listed in Job 40(?)ish..........he does need to dial it back a whole lot......

......my mantra.....disagree without being disageeable...........

The teachers of the Law are referring to the lawyers, and the Pharicees who were the preachers. The two worst offenders of society and that is who Jesus got on the worst. Called them snakes and vipers and theives.

[Johann]

And you know, Tinka, I thought about this very example as I typed my posts.  Difference is, HE IS Jesus.  GJ is not talking directly to Danny, but in actuality to those GJ(and the rest of us) feel are being mislead by Danny. 

Are you saying those people are really beyond restoration?

[princessdi]

Definitely not!  Where there is life, there is hope! 

They are also gifted free will by God, and right now they are choosing to follow the words of Danny.  We all have the right to make the wrong decision, and have exercised that right more than we like to admit.

The real point, that I am making is that they don't deserved to be talked to as GJ often does, and he has no right to speak to them like that.  "ALL have sinned and come short":  "He who has not sinned....", etc.  All that comes into play. 

I am also going to repeat that GJ has never spoken to me in a disrespectful manner, and I appreciate that.  However, the venom he spews at others is inexcusable and unChristlike.

Are you saying those people are really beyond restoration?

[tinka]

Well Di,

I understand GJ very well and that is probably because as you have read in my comments, (although, I have a very soft heart in one sense and like "Palin" am a very grizzly mama when it comes to trounced on victims of anything. I am also a very strong Slovenian American county woman that makes no time for the small talk over and over. I basically hit it hard and straight forward. I do relate well with GJ knowing exactly where and how he states things and why. I do a lot of extra talk at times but no one guesses where I come from whether right or wrong. I am a defender of those who suffer but am nothing but a pain to those who I see cause the suffering. There is tooooo much suffering as far as I am concerned all caused by greed and the almighty dollar and pain caused by the preying on innocence by adultery that crushes life's like flies. and that is about all it's worth is a flies life when the sins take another life through hell. Going through that right now with my youngest and today under this she told me she did not think she could go on. I face these things too. IF children were involved I probably would do some grizzly stuff. It's hard to see and feel for victims and am very very short with it. GJ shoots it straight away and I understand.

[princessdi]

And you also know, Tinka, that I don't bite my tongue, either.  However there is NO excuse to be rude pr mean.  I also understand where GJ is coming from, as I said before, he often has truth on his side.  However, he will not win anyone over with that attitude.  The ultimate example is that, in spite of our sins, God does not talk to or treat us like that, and He gave us the Life of His more than Precious Son. 

[Johann]

The two worst offenders of society and that is who Jesus got on the worst. Called them snakes and vipers and theives.

Ssshhhh, tinka, better not disturb the sleeping saints! Do you think Jesus might have been in a bad mood when he said that - or under the influence of GJ?

[tinka]

No, (smile)
He knew they oppressed the people with their talents and positions.

[princessdi]

Exactly, Tinka!  

[mrst53]

I think sometimes we have be like Jesus when he wrote in the sand and did not condem the woman and other times we have to be like Jesus and throw the money changers out of the Temple. The hardest part is knowing when to be which one.  Always being one way or the other is not good, I don't think. We just have to pray to be able to know which way to be.