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[Bob Pickle]

anyman,

Actually, I recall a place like that refusing to put a dollar value on the receipt.

If you go to http://Goodwill.org/ and search for "receipt," you'll end up with four listings. http://www.goodwill.org/page/guest/about/howweoperate/donations/aboutdonatingvehicles says, "The charity is not permitted to determine your vehicle's fair market value; the tax receipt is proof that you made the donation."

Seems that if I told them to put $1 million on a receipt for a teddy bear I gave them, it could be problematic if they complied.

[Stan]

Nah, leave it here.

Stan, your example doesn't quite fit the situation, on several counts.

First of all, I can't find anywhere where a 501(c)(3) in the U.S. would give a receipt to a donor for donated property that has a dollar value on it. I just can't find it.

Secondly, your example suggests that the conference would sell the $1 million home for $100,000 to the donor. In this case, Danny wasn't the donor, from all I've seen. If he was the donor he could have proven so almost two years ago, and saved everyone a lot of grief IF that makes a difference.

Thirdly, don't you have to take into consideration the present value of the property when you sell it? I've seen some examples by the IRS of sales of remainder interest of stocks that take present value into consideration.

Fourthly, we still have to remember that 3ABN's books said that the book value of the property was more than $50,000. In your example above, what value would be on the conference's books? $100,000 or $1 million?

OK, what was the PV of the home before Danny bought the remainder? AND how much with the life tenancy worth?

I do not know who gives the receipt for property in that state. I suspect the donor would have to have it appraised. I don't know if she/he gave it to Danny with the remainder to go to 3ABN. or how the gift was done.

In our case, the gift of the $1,000,000 or so home, would be on our books for the 100,000 figure, we issue the receipt for that. It would be the same price we would sell the home to the 'tenant' for.

[Stan]

Correction...
 - - Secondly, your example suggests that the conference would sell the $1 million home for $100,000 to the donor

I should have been $100,000 to the tenant, she/he was not the donor...

Sorry about that...

[Bob Pickle]

OK, what was the PV of the home before Danny bought the remainder? AND how much with the life tenancy worth?

Obviously, if the home sold for $135,000 one week later, and if that price was an open market price, then that is the FMV of the home.

I do not know who gives the receipt for property in that state. I suspect the donor would have to have it appraised.

It's a federal thing, not a state thing. IRS Form 8283 indicates that the donor must get an appraisal if the donated property has a claimed value of more than $5000.

In our case, the gift of the $1,000,000 or so home, would be on our books for the 100,000 figure, we issue the receipt for that. It would be the same price we would sell the home to the 'tenant' for.

In this case, 3ABN had a book value on the house of over $50,000, and sold it to Danny for just $6,139. So the figures don't jive.

Correction...
 - - Secondly, your example suggests that the conference would sell the $1 million home for $100,000 to the donor

I should have been $100,000 to the tenant, she/he was not the donor...

Sorry about that...

To my knowledge, May Chung never owned the property in question.

In your example, if neither the donor or the tenant had ever owned the property in question, can they be given a life estate in it?

[anyman]

Also from the Goodwill site, "Taxpayers who donate used clothing and household items in good condition can qualify for a tax deduction."

What you are avoiding is your claim that, "I can't find anywhere where a 501(c)(3) in the US would give a receipt to a donor for donated property that has a dollar value on it." Goodwill does, I and friends of mine, have experienced just that. Receipts from Goodwill with dollar figures written on them. It appears you remain unwilling to every be wrong.

anyman

anyman,

Actually, I recall a place like that refusing to put a dollar value on the receipt.

If you go to http://Goodwill.org/ and search for "receipt," you'll end up with four listings. http://www.goodwill.org/page/guest/about/howweoperate/donations/aboutdonatingvehicles says, "The charity is not permitted to determine your vehicle's fair market value; the tax receipt is proof that you made the donation."

Seems that if I told them to put $1 million on a receipt for a teddy bear I gave them, it could be problematic if they complied.

[Stan]

Life tenacy has a value, it is like prepaid rent, and possibly other expenses for what ever there projected date of death would be, based on actuarial studies.

In the other case, the donor passed away, leaving it to us, but providing a lifetime free occupancy for the designated person..

[Bob Pickle]

Also from the Goodwill site, "Taxpayers who donate used clothing and household items in good condition can qualify for a tax deduction."

So? No one has disputed that.

What you are avoiding is your claim that, "I can't find anywhere where a 501(c)(3) in the US would give a receipt to a donor for donated property that has a dollar value on it." Goodwill does, I and friends of mine, have experienced just that. Receipts from Goodwill with dollar figures written on them.

Maybe I can call Goodwill tomorrow.

[Bob Pickle]

Life tenacy has a value, it is like prepaid rent, and possibly other expenses for what ever there projected date of death would be, based on actuarial studies.

In the other case, the donor passed away, leaving it to us, but providing a lifetime free occupancy for the designated person..

What if the donor never actually owned the property?

[lapreader]

I made a donation to Goodwill yesterday and was given a blank receipt.

[Bob Pickle]

I made a donation to Goodwill yesterday and was given a blank receipt.

The Goodwill in San Diego doesn't put a value on the receipt either: http://www.sdgoodwill.org/donation_values.shtml.

Same in Boston: http://www.goodwillmass.org/donation_tax.html.

[quaddie47]

I made a donation to Goodwill yesterday and was given a blank receipt.

The Goodwill in San Diego doesn't put a value on the receipt either: http://www.sdgoodwill.org/donation_values.shtml.

Same in Boston: http://www.goodwillmass.org/donation_tax.html.

Let's back up the train.  You seem to be arguing about oranges when you need to talk about apples.

Are you saying you have never been made aware of May Chung having any interest in the property to convey to 3abn or anyone (for example LS and DS)?  Have you ever discussed the matter with LS as one would think she would know whether she was given a life estate in the property and who gave it to her and DS and when. 

[GRAT]

I have two Goodwill receipts.  On the bottom under attendant's signature it says:  Goodwill has not provided any goods or services in consideration, in whole or part, for this contribution.  Federal law provides that clothing and household goods must be in "good used condition or better" for tax deductions.  Donor is responsible for written verification of value for any single item charitable deduction of $500 or more.  This one dated 12-08.  The one dated 4-08 says $250 or more.  Both say this donation is not appraised.  I have never had a charity give me a receipt with a dollar amount on it.

[Stan]

What if the donor never actually owned the property?

??

How could they donate something they never owned??

[SDAminister]

The point being argued is mostly moot.  A former 3ABN board member has said that the board did this deal with the house to provide a retirement benefit for the Sheltons. But didn't I read some where in a court case involving the State of Illinois and 3ABN that the Sheltons claimed they got no housing or retirement benefits from 3ABN?

SDAminister

[Stan]

The residual value of a home to the person who have life tenancy is simply not the current market value.