Advent Talk

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to Advent Talk, a place for members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church! 

Feel free to invite your friends to come here.

Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Evolution at La Sierra?  (Read 28418 times)

0 Members and 8 Guests are viewing this topic.

Bob Pickle

  • Defendants
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4061
    • Pickle Publishing
Re: Evolution at La Sierra?
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2009, 07:53:27 PM »

The president of La Sierra University, Randal Wisbey, has responded to David Asscherick's letter. You can read his response at http://www.atoday.com/President+of+LSU+Responds+to+Atheistic+Evolution+Allegations.

Unfortunately, Wisbey missed a golden opportunity by not denying that evolution is being taught as fact at La Sierra. He denied that atheistic evolution is being taught, but never denied that evolution is being taught. And Asscherick never said that La Sierra was teaching atheistic evolution.

David C. Read expressed surprise that Wisbey said, "As an institution of higher education, a Seventh-day Adventist university provides an excellent setting for examining evolutionary process - a subject that is foundational to the modern biological and behavioral sciences." Read stated, "I would have expected the Wisbey response to be a smarmy, vague, non-denial, and it is.  I would not have expected Wisbey to openly endorse Darwinism, as he has in the 7th paragraph of the letter." And, "I am a bit surprised, however, that the president of an Adventist college would give Darwinism a full-throated endorsement in an open letter intended to be read by the laity and administrators alike."
Logged

tinka

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1495
Re: Evolution at La Sierra?
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2009, 01:41:16 AM »

How strange this thread I just came on to. Could not sleep so clicked on this topic that I have not seen before. The strange part is that my husband and I were just discussing this on our own today.

It is a strange topic that has been in my own personal understanding discussed back and forth with my husband and heard a preacher give his own personal thoughts. They conclude that maybe something was here before creation in some sort.

It took me years and years of reading 1st page of Creation over and over and over and then following all references. Finally 5-6 years now it is finally instilled quite plain. You can possibly see some scripture that if you want to believe that something was here, rock, etc, etc , you might conclude. But whether it appears like it or not in writing English. I read it better and weigh it word for word and sometimes even laying it out visually, like on felt boards to finally see exactly the meaning. I did this with the creation story as I am never satisfied with indecision of how it was.

Without adding to or taking away. I discovered or was shown and it seemed much opened up in the understanding that I am quite satisfied with. I discovered that nothing was there except mist. A dark black hole of mist. Not even air until a firmament (space, air, a heaven)was made. It says The mist was parted and a "firmament" (or space was made with mist on the top and mist below).  So I do gather without adding or taking away that mist was there.  Now dry earth appeared. all this was spoken and it was. I cannot believe now any other way.

I hate to tell the stupidity of what took me so long to get this. But again, it is my nature to do it and do it and do it until I get a square fact. A fact that matches without doubt and finally jumped out with just a misunderstanding of one word.

I find one thing though with situations and people. When one wants to believe a theory of their own they can usually find it and twist scripture until it comes out their way of thought.

I have done this also with the Trinity or the Godhead and the only thing that I disagreed ever with M Finley is that questions about being able to understand the Godhead.  I agree that the mystery of "How the Trinity" is possible can never be known-- but the inner working of it can and it opened up great insight of how marvelous the whole Bible opens up to the most incredible workings of God and the separate entity's of the Godhead and yet ONE GOD. Invisible, visible. audio.

 I have taken over years all the quotes of EGW and Bible verses put them all in order in summary that had any thing to do with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and the workings of the Trinity is the most incredible way to know God. It took years to find the most inquisitive questions that I had to know. Our minds will always be closed to His mystery of "being" but his works and Love and How being with His people and creation he has portrayed before our eyes or told from scripture. The rest is faith and belief.  I am so amazed that he gives such satisfaction and rest of belief in His Word.  I lack the right words to explain.

It seems these days that college is no longer for a place to learn professional employment only, but the best place where satan can come and make complete liberals out of some of the best. What better place for him to work. The young students. The professors in the most Liberal colleges have brought America to it's knees. Away from God.  I just read the letter addressed by David A.

It's funny how an opinion derives from Conservative views. It happened with me when I saw DA wear on TV while he was preaching a seminar a couple of years ago when he came out with some sort of Catholic garb type dress over pants. I did not like the appearance at all.  I did not get good vibe of this at all and did not understand an Adventist doing this or looking like a priest.

Well, said enough in the middle of the night Hmm it's almost morning. So as I read all this that is going on over the threads I see that Adventists have their work cut out for them as we are still seemingly divided on the Creation. and then the 144,000, Money pits and several other issues still after all that has been done to clear the way for us. How sad. Our last messenger is almost a thing of the past now, misunderstood or forgotten.......

« Last Edit: May 28, 2009, 02:02:08 AM by tinka »
Logged

Bob Pickle

  • Defendants
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4061
    • Pickle Publishing
Re: Evolution at La Sierra?
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2009, 08:43:07 PM »

One of the last two comments to the AToday posting of Wisbey's letter states the following:

Quote
Here at CUC we have had the majority of the science faculty on the side of theistic evolution for many years.  I believe the administration has tried at certain times to purge the problem, but haven’t been successful.  The leadership seems to be confused or blinded as to what has been going on, and does not really try to investigate the matter to find out.  The teachers themselves try to keep their true evolutionary stance/agenda hidden from school administrators and denominational accreditation committees, but even a cursory reading of handout/textbook materials from certain classes would reveal the theistic evolutionary beliefs of the teachers.  One of the deceptive ways these men keep their true views hidden from the public is that they often call themselves creationists.  But the fact is they believe that God used evolution to create, rather than creating instantaneously as the Word of God teaches.  So they are not really creationists at all, but theistic evolutionists.

That's a pretty serious accusation. I would hope it isn't true, because I would hope that one could get an Adventist education at an Adventist school.

From the first paragraph I see that "CUC" is not Columbia Union College.
Logged

Johann

  • Guest
Re: Evolution at La Sierra?
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2009, 02:30:27 PM »

A friend in charge of pastoral training in one of the world divisions assures me that most theologians in our Church are firm believers in the 6-day creation which is our official stand and teaching.
Logged

Bob Pickle

  • Defendants
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4061
    • Pickle Publishing
Re: Evolution at La Sierra?
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2009, 07:54:19 PM »

I'd like to encourage everyone to go to http://www.educatetruth.com/, click the petition link, and sign the petition.

If you add comments when you sign the petition, make them all one paragraph, whether long or short. Adding a line break in the comments seems to cause those comments to be grayed out. It must be a problem with the petition software.
Logged

princessdi

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 1271
Re: Evolution at La Sierra?
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2009, 01:44:44 PM »

Here is a copy of my post raising a few questions on the same topic.

I can't remember if I posted to this thread before...sounds familiar, though.......Ok so we just tell one side of the story for fear if we hear all sides, we will not choose "the truth" in and of ourselves, we will get confused, etc. It might surprise you know that this is also the reasoning on the JWs who believe that down to not allowing their members to even attend other churches.

Our end-time doctrine teaches that we will be persecuted for our faith. Way before we get to water boarding, there will be some attempt at reasoning, etc. If we don't believe we can stand some other teachings learned on a voluntary basis, how are we going to stand in the end? I believe the danger is not teaching that there are others schools of thought, and what is our biblical counter to each(is any, cuz this is not always the case, much to our chagrin). That work much better. I believe we do our children/members a disservice by sending them out.....unarmed......

Logged
It is the duty of every cultured man or woman to read sympathetically the scriptures of the world.  If we are to respect others' religions as we would have them respect our own, a friendly study of the world's religions is a sacred duty. - Mohandas K. Gandhi

Bob Pickle

  • Defendants
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4061
    • Pickle Publishing
Re: Evolution at La Sierra?
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2009, 08:24:50 PM »

The issue is not the teaching of other views such as evolution, but the teaching of evolution as fact and truth in opposition to the idea that God created the world in six actual days.

I appreciated John M. Fowler's letter to the editor of the Review in I think the most recent issue. He stated clearly that upholding the teaching of a six-day creation is not optional for our pastors and teachers. When evolution is presented, the teachers need to bring the students back to Bible truth.
Logged

Murcielago

  • Global Moderator
  • Veteran Member
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1274
Re: Evolution at La Sierra?
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2009, 05:58:50 PM »

I went to an Adventist school that taught creationist theory, and stirictly adhered to traditional Adventist doctrine in the most conservative fashion. Statistically a much greater percentage of the graduates from that school have not only left the church, but left Christianity entirely, than La Sierra.
Logged

princessdi

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 1271
Re: Evolution at La Sierra?
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2009, 10:40:40 AM »

George, I tend to believe that this is generational...beginning to Baby Boomers.  When you present something as total truth to us, it had better be total truth.  We cannot find some fault in your teaching, and then you have no answer for the inaccuracies found.

With Adventism, as well as other religions, we have settled for conformity, teaching in our schools, encouraging it in our churches.  It ismuch easier not to have a ot of free-thinking folks with questions running around.  The problem is that the inaccuracies in our teachings hit them in them face the moment they step outside that "controlled" environment, and "we just have to have faith" is not always the answer. In fact it is most often not the answer.  The other unfortunate consequence is that people often make real life decsions based on information taught them as total truth.  Far too many have found that they have simply missed out on extraordinary once in a life time opportunities. 
Logged
It is the duty of every cultured man or woman to read sympathetically the scriptures of the world.  If we are to respect others' religions as we would have them respect our own, a friendly study of the world's religions is a sacred duty. - Mohandas K. Gandhi

Murcielago

  • Global Moderator
  • Veteran Member
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1274
Re: Evolution at La Sierra?
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2009, 12:44:51 AM »

Good points. Very good points.
Logged

Johann

  • Guest
Re: Evolution at La Sierra?
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2009, 04:31:18 PM »

Under "There is HOPE" you will find an announcement of a creation weekend at Loma Linda
Logged

youngwarrior

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 40
Re: Evolution at La Sierra?
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2011, 09:46:12 PM »

Since the subject of the teaching of evolution at La Sierra seems to still be going on I thought I'd post a few thoughts.  For those who might think I have no experience or education with which to approach this subject I hold a Bachelor of Science Degree in Technology with a concentration in Bio-Medical Electronics.  Therefore I have some understanding of the scientific method.

The very foundation of old-earth evolutionary theory does not stand up to the rigors of true scientific testing.  That is the supposed age of the rocks and the fossils.  Let me briefly outline how rocks and fossils are dated.

Since fossils are only found in sedimentary rock and sedimentary rock can't be dated the fossils are dated approximately by dating over and under lying layers of igneous (volcanic) rock.  Igneous rock, according to theory, can be dated by measuring the ratio of a mother radioactive isotope and its daughter isotope.  Briefly speaking this method assumes the mother isotope decays into the daughter isotope at a known and linear rate.

Here are the problems with this method.  I will use uranium/lead as an example although there are other combinations.

1.  It assumes that when the rock was extruded from the volcano there was no lead in the sample, only uranium.  This can't be proven scientifically since no one was around to measure the ratio when the rock was extruded.  In fact volcanic rocks from Mt. St. Helens measured at 3,000 years old three years after the 1980 eruption.

2.  It assumes that the uranium decays at a known linear rate.  Again this can't be demonstrated scientifically because the amount of time we have been able to measure the ratio is less than two hundred years; only a drop in a bucket compared to the millions of years it is supposed to measure.

3.  It also assumes there has been no contamination from above by either mother or daughter isotope and no leaching out of either into lower layers.  This can be demonstrated to be unlikely since both isotopes are water soluble under certain conditions.

When it comes to Carbon 14 dating (organic matter) the problems are even more obvious.  For Carbon 14 dating to work the amount of Carbon 14 in the atmosphere must be stable.  In fact there is more Carbon 14 in the atmosphere today than there was a hundred years ago.  Therefore Carbon 14 dating doesn't work either.

I have studied a lot more on the subject but there isn't really room here for more.  Do a Google search on the dating methods I have mentioned for more information.
Logged

Gailon Arthur Joy

  • Defendants
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1539
Re: Evolution at La Sierra?
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2011, 07:12:48 PM »

I am concerned by the term "most"...any pastor or ordained minister in the Seventh-day Adventist Church that does not unreservedly subscribe to "ALL" the Fundemental Beliefs has a DUTY to surrender his credentials and find and attend a church that has their belief system.

There is no place in the Laodicean Church for hypocrisy and the sacred tithe should not be used to sustain any ordained minister that does not unreservedly believe the entire Fundemental Beliefs.

In the alternative, they should be purged and denied fellowship in the brotherhood of the Faith.

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

A friend in charge of pastoral training in one of the world divisions assures me that most theologians in our Church are firm believers in the 6-day creation which is our official stand and teaching.
Logged

Gailon Arthur Joy

  • Defendants
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1539
Re: Evolution at La Sierra?
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2011, 07:17:33 PM »

Mr. Pickle,

Erv IS ATODAY and the name is a misnomer, they are not Adventists today, yesterday or tomorrow.

Maybe it is time to open a Save-LaSierra.com site???

Or how about SaveAToday??? or how about both???
 
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

http://www.atoday.com/fundamentalist-creationist-gets-lukewarm-student-reception-la-sierra-university

Erv Taylor appears in the above piece to be promoting evolution, and appears to be saying that evolution is actively taught at La Sierra.

I would hope this is not true. If it is true, I hope someone at AToday has a talk with Erv, and I hope the appropriate church leaders clean up La Sierra. This is no time in earth's history to be dabbling with apostasy, skepticism, and unbelief.
Logged

Gailon Arthur Joy

  • Defendants
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1539
Re: Evolution at La Sierra?
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2011, 07:20:48 PM »

And since when did "The Theory of evolution" acheive such an elevated standing when there are so many missing links and it fails so many "scientific" tests???

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

Several years ago I heard a friend in the geographic local of Berrien Springs, and a former student of Andrews, say that evolution has been proven scientifically without a doubt; the editor/publisher of the official church paper of the Pacific Union said the same in 2001.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up