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[Bob Pickle]

In http://www.3abnvjoy.com/mad-07cv40098/mad-07cv40098-doc-63-15.pdf I read, "However, in late 2000 Tommy's own family confronted Tommy regarding concerns related to his adopted son and at least one other minor male child." Know anything about that?

The year 2000 would have only been 3 years before 2003, not 30.

1982-83: Brad Dunning.

By 1985: Maybe four others had gone public.

c. 1986: Duane Clem (came forward in 2008).

1988: Roger Clem (came forward in 2003).

1991: a 3ABN staffer complains. Tommy leaves 3ABN.

1995-2000: Sometime in there we have the alleged incident occurring which is described by the alleged victim on pp. 8-9 of http://www.3abnvjoy.com/mad-07cv40098/mad-07cv40098-doc-81-11.pdf. This was the new allegation with a minor that Dryden announced at the end of 2006.

1997: Tommy claims at http://www.3abnvjoy.com/mad-07cv40098/mad-07cv40098-doc-127-18.pdf that his family forced him into counseling.

2000: Gailon claims above that Tommy's family again confronted Tommy.

2003: Roger Clem goes public.

2003: Danny threatens Dryden and refers to actual incidents for which the statute of limitations would apply.

This is some of what we know. How much haven't we heard about?

Does Danny have a conscience?

[tinka]

The letter that is on this thread is just too much. Especially any one denying any part of this admission.

I would suggest that there are many serial abusers that plot and are attracted to their victims.  In reality some that are under care of the top most intelligent doctors in this nation you need to Stand back and listen or see what the conclusion if any of these type of people go into remission if they have been the perpetrators or the aggressors. I am not talking about the victims. Why don't you get info from Crime Solvers, high profile detectives, perps that are under rehabilitation supposedly, let them out and they go right back. Many then claim religion and show good behavior and still have the problem.

This letter said enough for me to realize that there is more sickness here that meets the eye. I have read posts on here that ask prayers for his immediate family and I realize anything can be with true admission or repentance and prayer as any thing with God is possible!

But this has gone on too long with  family having  knowledge of this???  My question and I try to put myself in that position with thoughts of what in the world would I do or think. First of all a family is attached. What would keep me with or in a situation like that knowingly as a wife with children? and adoption on top of all that ...knowing!!   Sorry that would not be me or my bag for raising children.

 All these years knowing that your husband had a tendency with children other then you or preference. Yes that is the right word Are you kidding here? Something else is wrong. What good purpose is there in this for your children??  Would I want my children to except this??  Would I want this to be their problem for life long embarrassment? Absolutely not! What kind of acceptance is this on a wife's part??  Except a threesome???
Love??? of what??  His word of "abandonment" in the letter it appears or sounds as reference that he still wants or cares as his ego shows out. He also portrays sort of sympathy but not as he tries to imply now for public to believe. It sounds as if "breaking up is hard to do" sort of thing  I just do not understand this way! other then sick!

I still believe LS was led away from corruption even more then she knew of but found too late.

[Fran]

Posted on: Yesterday at 09:08:14 PM Posted by: tinka Posted on: Yesterday at 09:08:14 PM

...  I still believe LS was led away from corruption even more then she knew of, but found too late.

I am in full agreement.  God is good, but sometimes we don't understand the whys and wherefore's of some of God's decisions!  It is becoming crystal clear that God did it to protect her!  Praise God!

[Stan]

In this case we have people who were responsible for doing something who swept it all under the rug. What do we do then?

3ABN had an official conference academy campus on its premises, as well as a church school. RMS (Risk Management Services) would therefore have to get involved if there were incidents involving students from those schools.

The whole thing was covered up so much that the conference pastor told me that he didn't know anything about it. So you have a conference pastor who is responsible for the church school, and Danny left him in the dark.

So what does one do in a situation like this, Stan? Danny swept it all under the rug, perhaps even using 3ABN money to hire attorney(s) to help him do it. And if you add the 3ABN donor money that paid for the lawsuit, that's an awful lot of money Danny got 3ABN to shell out to cover up Tommy's problem.

So what does one do?

Did they never report that to the Police?  Were the alleged victims underage or forcibly violated?

I remember reading that one was investigated by the police, but rejected. Perhaps that was another person.

FYI
Not all Churches/Schools use RMS, several conferences and Churches have gone another way. Two recent lawsuits, Minnesota and Central California had other insurance.
In our Conference, we have Churches opt out in the past. Most have regretted.

***********************************************
I was arrested one time for not paying a speeding ticket. I was 19 or so. My police investigation/clearance for a Green Card, came out shiny clean.


-------------------------------
Edited by Artiste to remove inappropriate content.

[Bob Pickle]

Did they never report that to the Police?

As far as I know, John Lomacang never reported Danny's cover up to the police. While I could be wrong, his reporting such would not have jived with his teaching televised the previous August that Danny is beyond human correction.

I've never had any indication that Walt Thompson, Mollie Steenson, or any other board member ever reported Danny's cover up to the police.

Were the alleged victims underage or forcibly violated?

I only know of one alleged victim in Illinois that wasn't a minor, and two in Virginia. Out of the 8 I have personally spoken with or with their mother, only one wasn't a minor at the time.

I remember reading that one was investigated by the police, but rejected. Perhaps that was another person.

One should also consider the source. If Danny et. al. is the source of that information, it is suspect from the get go.

Thank you for the clarification that RMS may not have been the insurer of the churches and conference under consideration.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Bob

Since you asked, and I hesitated to respond, until the second time 


I would have to do a lot more research before I commented..  but  I do have to ask..

Which was worse, doing that? OR spreading it all over the 'net?

Stan,

Which was worse, being a pedophilic pastor or being a televangelist that
worked overtime to bury the truth and prevent accountability?

And which is worse, being an assessory to the conspiracy to bury the truth
or spreading the TRUTH all over the net???

When you get done answering these questions, find a mirror!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

[Johann]

Is this still relevant?

Bob

Since you asked, and I hesitated to respond, until the second time 


I would have to do a lot more research before I commented..  but  I do have to ask..

Which was worse, doing that? OR spreading it all over the 'net?

OK, I hardly ever say anything here anymore, but this one...

The pastor who told my mom not to say anything publically about my great-grandfather's molestation of me, had the same attitude. The pastor who wouldn't report his own daughter's molestation because he didn't want his church to "look bad" had the same attitude.

Abuse lives and spreads because of just such attitudes. It lives in the dark. It continues because it is so unthinkable that people don't want to believe it happens, and if it does, don't want to hear about it or have it known. Just put it behind us; I am sure they must be sorry; what will the "world" think; it is none of our business; etc.

And it is very common to hear someone who has done something despicable get very upset that their act has been exposed. They are more angry that it was brought to light than that they actually did it. Which brings into question the depth of their "repentance", in my opinion...

 
scratsmom--knowing that what she just said made no difference whatsoever, but I feel better...

[Johann]

Is this still relevant?

Bob

Since you asked, and I hesitated to respond, until the second time 


I would have to do a lot more research before I commented..  but  I do have to ask..

Which was worse, doing that? OR spreading it all over the 'net?

OK, I hardly ever say anything here anymore, but this one...

The pastor who told my mom not to say anything publically about my great-grandfather's molestation of me, had the same attitude. The pastor who wouldn't report his own daughter's molestation because he didn't want his church to "look bad" had the same attitude.

Abuse lives and spreads because of just such attitudes. It lives in the dark. It continues because it is so unthinkable that people don't want to believe it happens, and if it does, don't want to hear about it or have it known. Just put it behind us; I am sure they must be sorry; what will the "world" think; it is none of our business; etc.

And it is very common to hear someone who has done something despicable get very upset that their act has been exposed. They are more angry that it was brought to light than that they actually did it. Which brings into question the depth of their "repentance", in my opinion...

 
scratsmom--knowing that what she just said made no difference whatsoever, but I feel better...

Yes, sratsmom, what you said is very important. So often in my ministry I have discovered that offenders get very upset when their evil acts are discovered. Very frequently they will give someone else the fault.

I could tell many horrible stories of what I have experienced in my  ministry. This one happened more than half a century ago and the man has been in his grave for many years.  It was the farmer trying to convince me he was innocent though he spent two years in prison. i got the story from himself. In the morning he'd send his wife out milking the cows while he had worship in bed with the young girl whose mother wanted her young daughter out of the big city to be with Christian people. He told me that the two of them prayed so sincerely together that they would not sin against God. But somehow or other they had to find out if this twelve-year old had reached sexual maturity. Since they had asked God to guide them he was not doing anything wrong.

He came to church and Sabbath school every Sabbath, and he wanted me to convince the members he had not done anything wrong. He was just one of several making similar attempts that I have had contacts with during my ministry. Every time the pastor finds out when it is too late to prevent it from happening or stop it at the beginning.

How would you handle such people if you were their pastor? Two years in prison was not the cure he needed. Did it prevent others from treating minors the same way?

[scratsmom]

Johann, "cure" is not a word I would use for a child or youth sexual predator, short of heaven. Prison doesn't cure, just makes them determined to not get caught again.

My husband is a pastor, and the way he has handled it pleases some and angers others--(what else is new?    ) He tells the abuser that the parents of children must know, so that they won't strike up a friendship and invite them home with them, (ours were all offenders who were coming into our church after committing somewhere else) and that they will be held accountable by never being allowed to be alone with or around any kids or youth. They are welcome to come, but those are the conditions. So far none have. They want to be anonymous and and have accused him of being unforgiving and unreasonable. Which tells me what they would do (and have done again) when given the right conditions.

scratsmom

[Little Grasshopper]

Bob

Since you asked, and I hesitated to respond, until the second time 


I would have to do a lot more research before I commented..  but  I do have to ask..

Which was worse, doing that? OR spreading it all over the 'net?

Stan,

Which was worse, being a pedophilic pastor or being a televangelist that
worked overtime to bury the truth and prevent accountability?

And which is worse, being an accessory to the conspiracy to bury the truth
or spreading the TRUTH all over the net???

When you get done answering these questions, find a mirror!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

Stan,

I seem to remember somebody named Stan being happy that he wasn't going to be sued by Danny Shelton as were some others.  Are you that same  Stan?   I'm asking.

I don't know if you ever shared your IP addresses, etc., with Danny Shelton or if you did not.  Only you can answer that question.

Maybe this would be a good time to say what you did or did not do to facilitate Danny Shelton's lawsuit, Stan. You wouldn't need to do too much of your research to answer that.

Little Grasshopper





   

[mrst53]

God forgives our sins, but there are things that we are still held accountable for after we have sinned. Child abuse is one. TS,  if he is found guilty, has many things to things to repay. Not only, should he spend long years in prison, but then he NEVER,NEVER should be around another child as long as he lives, that's if he ever gets out of prison. If I were the judge, I would throw away the key. They are never rehabilitated.... they are just waiting....

[mrst53]

I know that Blood is thicker that Water, but DS is really sticking his neck out for TS. AFter reading Roger Clem's letter to TS, if he has forgiven Tommy, then he is doing better than I might. Right now, I am so angry at TS and his lies and coverups and blaming everyone else but himself for his "sickness", that he makes me"SICK". I want to put him and those just like him UNDER THE JAIL. He probably was molested as a child, as this is a sickness that just keeps on giving, unless it is stopped... but the family should have stopped it. Were they some sort of" back woods hicks," that accepted that kind of behavior?

[tinka]

I know that Blood is thicker that Water, but DS is really sticking his neck out for TS. AFter reading Roger Clem's letter to TS, if he has forgiven Tommy, then he is doing better than I might. Right now, I am so angry at TS and his lies and coverups and blaming everyone else but himself for his "sickness", that he makes me"SICK". I want to put him and those just like him UNDER THE JAIL. He probably was molested as a child, as this is a sickness that just keeps on giving, unless it is stopped... but the family should have stopped it. Were they some sort of" back woods hicks," that accepted that kind of behavior?

Yes, the family should have stopped it. Even a wife, even a mother, even a brother! but you see cover up finished him as he continued in his cover!!  Their protection cost him in the end and so shall it be with other sympathizers.

[Cindy]

I know that Blood is thicker that Water, but DS is really sticking his neck out for TS. AFter reading Roger Clem's letter to TS, if he has forgiven Tommy, then he is doing better than I might. Right now, I am so angry at TS and his lies and coverups and blaming everyone else but himself for his "sickness", that he makes me"SICK". I want to put him and those just like him UNDER THE JAIL. He probably was molested as a child, as this is a sickness that just keeps on giving, unless it is stopped... but the family should have stopped it. Were they some sort of" back woods hicks," that accepted that kind of behavior?

Issues of child molestation stir feelings of outrage and are understandably contentious and therefore anger understood.

I am distrurbed though when I read things like the following:
"I want to put him and those just like him UNDER THE JAIL."

and:

"He probably was molested as a child, as this is a sickness that just keeps on giving, unless it is stopped... but the family should have stopped it. Were they some sort of" back woods hicks," that accepted that kind of behavior?"

I believe murderous or vigilante justice type statements and insults of the entire family are uncalled for and over the top.

I would hope as Christians this kind of thing is not repeated on this forum, or considered appropriate by the majority here and that this is not the consensus here or accepted and condoned or defended.

[tinka]

In other words instead of outcry from the morally sane you want hush! Typical I guess for cover overs.