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[Fran]

I just replied to Richard over at Maritime SDA 0nline.  My health has not been good, but I wanted to say most of it over here too.  So I copied my post there and am going to post it here.

I have several questions that I am asking myself.  Maybe you are asking yourself these questions too.

1.  Is it possible for me/us to continue to discuss facts about 3ABN without getting side tracked by our opinions of each other?

2.  My/Our agenda should be to get truth posted for Adventist to read and make educated decisions about giving to 3ABN.

3.  MY/Our personal attacks against others should be dealt with immediately.

4.  Can I/we talk about the affidavits people have given, and the evidence as provided by Bob and Gailon in the documents #96 and #100.

5.  Can I/we share more with others to bring this thing to an end.

6.  Am I/we the reason this has taken so long?

7.  Should posters from/for 3ABN post on 3ABNTalk all their evidence in Danny and 3ABN's favor be allowed to post elsewhere, but not here.  Would this counteract the counterfeit? 

8.  Could I/we restrict our posts to facts and discussion of the facts here?

If so, all would be able to read AdventTalk 3ABN Topics and read evidence and discussion about the facts against Danny and 3ABN.  3ABNTalk could present facts showing evidence against our facts presented.  Having opposing views gets in the way of truth being presented.   God is not the author of confusion.  Any posting to the contrary should be weeded out early and told to go post on 3ABNTalk.  They too need an outlet for their opinions of Danny's and 3ABN facts.

Is it possible to do this?  To accept anyone in all other forums, but only positive discussions in 3ABN threads regarding discussion of the facts as presented through court documents and new facts as presented by us or other witnesses.  What ever happens. we must make sure none of the past detractors are ever again be allowed in 3ABN Topics.   We need 3ABN Topics to be Public, but posting has to be more selective!
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This is my reply to Richard over on Maritime SDA-online about delays.

 

Richard;

I am sure you would agree with me that God does not make mistakes, but man does.

As I have read your posts, I believe you too have a relationship with Christ, His Father and the Holy Spirit.

Was this delay caused by God or man?  Dare I say both?  God may have a plan, but I am sure he has factored in peoples Free Will.

No matter, God's will has already done something.

He has taken going on 5 years to break the horrible news to Adventists first.  He has been sending out warning signs all this time.  Was it done the way God originally planned?  I don't know, but I am assured he is in charge.

What has and is happening at 3ABN is evil in my eyes.  3ABN's Board's tolerance of Danny's and their own activities, when it has been shown that it was preplanned and evil, is evidence that 3ABN needs drastic change, or it needs to be removed totally and permanently from the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

How and when God decided to deal with the evil I see is totally up to Him.  It is not over. 

In reading some evidence that Bob Pickle has submitted in his defense is astounding!

It seems the subpoena for Delta Airlines was the straw that broke the camel’s back!

In documents 96 through 120, you can read the events that led up to the case being dismissed.

These documents make it plain to see who is lying and who preplanned their attack against Linda Shelton.

Bob blew the top off their plans.  In Document 96 & 100, Bob explains it all in a very detailed and organized manner!

I laughed when Bob referenced, in Document #114, on page #3. Bob says to refer to CD #1, Page #6157!  I cracked up and laughed until I couldn't breathe!

He later references other CD's.  No wonder the judge said that if Danny and 3ABN decide to file suit again, it must be in his court!  He has already read all that stuff!  He knows the facts.

Who else but Bob would or could do all he has done!  He pursues evidence to make sure his evidence is truth and all truth!  Could this be God's will?  I believe it is.

Document 100 is very clear about Brenda Walsh lying!  It has to be very embarrassing for her.

God has been very busy.  The story is being told, but is anyone reading it?

Find Documents #94-#123 and you too can read of the lead up to the dismissal.  It starts with all the subpoenas being issued beginning with Remnant, then Fjarli, the Customs and Delta Airlines!

Bob hit hard.  And 3ABN does not want this information to be released to the Adventist community.

There is information in 96 and 100 that I had never heard.

If someone else can post PDF Doc's, email me and I will provide pdf copies of Documents 96-121  I tried saving them as a txt file, but all the formatting is lost and it loses its impact.

One fact cited is this:

8. An inquirer called Walsh around the spring of 2008 to ask her about Linda Shelton. The inquirer sent a recorded copy of that telephone conversation to the Defendants. In that conversation Walsh stated: ...


4. On March 4, 2004, Walsh wrote Dee Hilderbrand, a 3ABN employee, informing Ms. Hilderbrand that Walsh had made reservations with Delta Airlines for tickets to Florida, that
the confirmation number was RV163S, and that the tickets needed to be purchased within 24 hours. Walsh’s email is attached hereto as Exhibit C.

5. On March 5, 2008, tickets pertaining to confirmation number RV163S for Walsh
(ticket # 00621930502970, SkyMiles # 2207208956) and Linda Shelton (ticket # 00621930502981, SkyMiles # 2075843512)
were purchased with an American Express credit card ending in 3209. These tickets are for flights from St. Louis, Missouri to Tampa, Florida via Atlanta, Georgia, on April 4, 2004, and returning on April 9, 2004.

The receipts were printed out on March 8, 2004, from a computer account attributed to Mollie Steenson, according to the URL printed at the bottom of each receipt. These receipts are attached hereto as Exhibits D–E.

6. Inasmuch as Walsh told Dee Hilderbrand that the tickets needed to be purchased]'within 24 hours, that the same credit card was used for both tickets, and that the receipts were printed out from Mollie Steenson’s computer account, the conclusion can be drawn that 3ABN paid for these tickets.

(Fran:    Brenda Walsh's Telephone conversation about Linda's trip that was not.)

I said ...,

“I’m not going, I said, if if Danny, if ... doesn’t approve of this.” ...

“I’m not doing this.”

But I refused to go. And she did buy my ticket, and I refused to go. And I still have a copy of my ticket because it’s still unused. But her ticket is used.

But we find Linda did not go on that trip at all!  Brenda did not purchase the tickets she entered the request.  Dee did it through approval of Mollie!  A 3ABN card was used!   

No wonder this information was  not what Danny and his helpers wanted America to know.

You will see where they had to cut their losses, finally, but too late.

All we all need to do is talk about the facts and not about our opinions of each other, right?  Can that be done?
--------------------------

I am very tired now and can't type further.  Will you please read the documents and discuss all those facts, here in this New and Improved 3ABN Forum.

[Artiste]

Fran, thank you for your concern that the facts come out.

[Daryl Fawcett]

I am also concerned that both Advent Talk and Maritime focus on documented facts and not on rumours, opinions, flaming one another on both sides of the issues etc.

As the owner/founder/administrator of the Maritime forums, I am going to be reviewing all the posts over at Maritime to see which ones needs to be closed, if not completely removed.  I am also going to be certain that posts focus more on facts that can be documented on either side of the issue, than on rumours, opinions, etc.  I am moving back to a very controlled environment similar to what it was prior to opening it up as it was at Black SDA.  I hope the same thing is respectfully done here at Advent Talk.

[Fran]

I am not sure it should be controlled as to discussions about the facts.  They may stray at times.  I just want the wars to stop.

Posting Bob Pickles affidavits would be nice for all to read in it's entirety. And then have discussions about what he has presented.  I wasn't wanting only facts and no discussions.

[Eduard]

Fran,

Would it be possible for you to post all those documents as PDF file attachments so that we can all read them? It would be wonderful!

Thanks,

Eduard

[Daryl Fawcett]

I am all for discussion of the facts, but when it comes to rumours, gossip, etc., that's when I would become concerned, both here as a member, and over at Maritime as the Administrator.

[Emma]

I guess the problem is in the definition, what some see as facts others see as gossip.

[Daryl Fawcett]

Emma,

That is why documentation of what is said is so very important.

I consider as fact the testimonial of two or more eye-witnesses who are both saying the same thing.  I also consider the statement of one eye-witness, as long as there isn't another eye-witness saying something different.  That is when another type of evidence is needed.

I consider as fact statements that can be documented as evidence that will back up the statement as being true.

[Fran]

I consider court documents as fact.  This is where Liars are separated from Truth Sayers.  The average person has no clue what the documents say!

I want all the name calling and bashing to stop, as it has. 

There is so much pointed out in the court documents!  Bob has backed up what he says with evidence.  This needs to be told.

Bring the discussions on!

However, I need to go to bed, as soon as I finish reading the discussions here.

Emma;

I guess the problem is in the definition.  What some see as facts others see as gossip.   

You are so correct.  Discussions are not facts, but discussions of what is fact from witnesses and other discussions that make the truth clearer to see.  We need to get the news out to the Adventist members so the may make more educated decisions.

Opinions are good also, as long as the things discussed are are not attacks against posters instead of the topics.  It can be done.  Posts frying people may be read on 3ABNTalk. 

[Artiste]

Opinions are good also, as long as the things discussed are are not attacks against posters instead of the topics.  It can be done.  Posts frying people may be read on 3ABNTalk. 

Agreed, Fran.

[Johann]

Opinions are good also, as long as the things discussed are are not attacks against posters instead of the topics.  It can be done.  Posts frying people may be read on 3ABNTalk. 

Agreed, Fran.

That seems to be a fact. Is there any honest discussion going on there? Can we improve? How?

Edited due to wrong formating. -- Johann

[Daryl Fawcett]

Well, Fran, I am glad that you are getting agreements from the admin people here, which I hope will also translate into an appropriate response on the moderating side of things here at Advent Talk.

As far as 3ABNTalk goes, I previously couldn't see much of a difference between them and Advent Talk in the disrespectful posts that were being posted both here and there, however, I trust this thread discussion will change that here, but only time will tell.

I also agree that court documents can be accepted and discussed both here and in the appropriate Maritime forums.

[Fran]

Well, Fran, I am glad that you are getting agreements from the admin people here, which I hope will also translate into an appropriate response on the moderating side of things here at Advent Talk.

As far as 3ABNTalk goes, I previously couldn't see much of a difference between them and Advent Talk in the disrespectful posts that were being posted both here and there, however, I trust this thread discussion will change that here, but only time will tell.

I also agree that court documents can be accepted and discussed both here and in the appropriate Maritime forums.

I have never had a problem with any Admin here.  I believe they want what we all want, "No more roasting of fellow posters."  I believe the problem has been curbed for some reason.  Of that I am thankful.  The accusers of posters has to stop and it has, so far.  May it continue!

I miss you because we are long time friends.  Your departure hurt me personally.  However, things go on to create a new normal.  My prayer is that this new normal will be free from those offering nothing but accusations about other posters.  The topic is about 3ABN, not a place for messenger bricks to be throw.

If there are disagreements, they can be stated and dropped.  If a person can't drop it they need to go away until they get over their mad or hurt feelings.

For AdventTalk, a new day has dawned.  I will always remember you were the one that got us thus far!  However, a new direction has been born I hope.

I love and miss you Daryl.  Thanks for staying as a member!

I will see you again on Maritime SDA on-line for sure.  I may share a post there that came from here.  I did share mine form there to Richard, here on AdventTalk.  I love both places.  I love BSDA and still visit CA.  I even read 3ABNTalk.

Let us all come together and support the admin, no matter who or where they are.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Emma,

That is why documentation of what is said is so very important.

I consider as fact the testimonial of two or more eye-witnesses who are both saying the same thing.  I also consider the statement of one eye-witness, as long as there isn't another eye-witness saying something different.  That is when another type of evidence is needed.

I consider as fact statements that can be documented as evidence that will back up the statement as being true.

In Newswriting and Editing one learns very quickly that you print what has been corroborated. We very much adopted that rule in the 3ABN investigation. We only printed what was "corroborated" by at least one other witness. Those facts would be considered gossip in Adventtalk or Maritime circles with that requirement and until discovery produced documents that supported the corroborated statements, we did not always have sufficient "documents" to support the witness accounts of the "facts". In the final analysis the witnesses were largely proven correct by the "documents" and in many cases seriously understated the facts or the depth of the "private inurement".

Therefore, if that rule is adopted at Adeventtalk, I am out of here!!! There would be nothing to discuss except by the "documentation" and therefore issues would remain buried from public view. If that is the focus, then you will have little to discuss and your relevance will quickly dissipate.

Thats' my view from the bunker.

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Artiste]

Fortunately, Gailon, I know of no such rule here at AdventTalk. 

Furthermore, I would be surprised if one were to come about in the future.