Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Habanero]

I'd like to see them.  My Inbox was flooded daily by the ones filled with rumors and lies about Obama, but I didn't see the ones about McCain and Palin.  Where are the websites that direct hate, vitrol and vicious language at McCain and Palin?  I'd like to see them.

Go look back over the archived news on any of hundreds of news sites. Go to MSNBC, CBS, LA Times. Over the last couple months I saw many of them. Did you see the green shirts that said something about Palin that I can't repeat on this site?

Both are equally wrong and equally horrific.  Both demonstrate the epitome of very poor problem solving techniques.   Life is precious, both before and after birth.

Which means that Obama and his policies are no better than Bush or McCain's, right? In this case, Obama's policies will kill millions more innocent kids than Bush and all his bombs and bullets ever did.

[Habanero]

These debates reflect one of the reasons why churches should never be used as a platform for promotion of any political party or candidate. No matter which side you come down on, there will be policies and practices put in place by the politic of your choice that are immoral and unethical.

[GrandmaNettie]

All that aside, we SDAs do have this propensity for latching onto anything new and declaring it the sign that we have reached the end of time. All my life I have lived with that and seen that. But that is how it has always been. The diciples thought Jesus would return in their lives. Every time Rome fell, they thought it was the end of all time because they were the center of the true church and the greatest power on earth. When the Bulgarian hordes and their Central European allies surrounded Byzantium, it was the end of time, because this city was the center of the true church and was now the greatest power on earth. When the Koresh compound went down in flames, the inhabitants knew that this was the beginning of the apocalypse. When Carter was elected, he was to be the last President for SDA reason that I don't remember. When Reagan was elected, he was going to bring on the national Sunday law. When Bush was elected, he was the former head of the CIA so he was going to institute a KGB/Gulag situation. When Clinton was elected, he was going to turn the country over to our enemies and bring on the end of time because he was going to be anti-American and weak. When GW Bush was elected, he was going to be the last president because he would not allow another election. He would create a terrorist incident and declare marshall law so that he could stay in power indefinitely and be a total dictator. Now we have Obama. Who will be next?

Have we ever heard the story of the little boy who cried "wolf?"

Precisely, Habanero!  And in applying this expectation to every significant world event we both cheapen the prophecy in the eyes of each generation and short circuit our very present.  This keeps us off balance and our focus narrow and unrealistic.  While one's eyes need to be properly focused on God, on living in this world in a manner that contributes to the edification of humanity and on seeing the true big picture, they are, instead, focused on the next possible anti-Christ or political issue that may bring about the Sunday Law or other endtime persecution.  Yes, exactly like the little boy who cried "wolf"!

Oh, btw, we mustn't forget that JFK, with his connections to the RCC, was also going to be the last President.

[tinka]

Grammy,
Check with Fox news as all the media that was there said and witnessed that it was a horrible trick and they can prove it did not happen.

And by the way. The very first slickie of a lie. Obama just announced that it would take the second term to keep his promises. What now?? What happened??

[GrandmaNettie]

I'd like to see them.  My Inbox was flooded daily by the ones filled with rumors and lies about Obama, but I didn't see the ones about McCain and Palin.  Where are the websites that direct hate, vitrol and vicious language at McCain and Palin?  I'd like to see them.

Go look back over the archived news on any of hundreds of news sites. Go to MSNBC, CBS, LA Times. Over the last couple months I saw many of them. Did you see the green shirts that said something about Palin that I can't repeat on this site?

Both are equally wrong and equally horrific.  Both demonstrate the epitome of very poor problem solving techniques.   Life is precious, both before and after birth.

Which means that Obama and his policies are no better than Bush or McCain's, right? In this case, Obama's policies will kill millions more innocent kids than Bush and all his bombs and bullets ever did.

Are you certain that Obama's policies are as some have represented them?  I read a blog linked by Huffington Post that raises doubts that they are.  In fact, the article indicates that Obama is attempting, with the bill he has written/sponsored, to narrow the scope of the late term abortions. 

The abortion issue is a meter to the value any nation puts on life, just as the wars any nation engages in are a telling measure of the fabric of its character.  Life is precious until one is laid to rest from natural causes.  Yes, there are times when we must go to war.  Did we really need to kill hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians with those two new bombs?  From all historical indications, that country was already about to fail from being so far overextended in its conflicts.  This country drug its collective feet for far too long with Hitler before finally rising to a noble cause.  We had undeniable justification to engage in the fight against terrorism in Afghanistan.  However, history will tell us whether or not it was truly appropriate to invade Iraq and overthrow the lout we helped put in power there.  All indications are that it was not a war we should have started.

Politics and religion both raise passions to levels that can cause conflicts.  We have clearly seen that when the two are lumped together there tends to be a meltdown of common decency.  Rather than villify and condemn the candidates or the people who vote for them, it is far less divisive to allow each individual to study the characters and policies of each one and then simply vote their conscience.

[reddogs]

All that aside, we SDAs do have this propensity for latching onto anything new and declaring it the sign that we have reached the end of time. All my life I have lived with that and seen that. But that is how it has always been. The diciples thought Jesus would return in their lives. Every time Rome fell, they thought it was the end of all time because they were the center of the true church and the greatest power on earth. When the Bulgarian hordes and their Central European allies surrounded Byzantium, it was the end of time, because this city was the center of the true church and was now the greatest power on earth. When the Koresh compound went down in flames, the inhabitants knew that this was the beginning of the apocalypse. When Carter was elected, he was to be the last President for SDA reason that I don't remember. When Reagan was elected, he was going to bring on the national Sunday law. When Bush was elected, he was the former head of the CIA so he was going to institute a KGB/Gulag situation. When Clinton was elected, he was going to turn the country over to our enemies and bring on the end of time because he was going to be anti-American and weak. When GW Bush was elected, he was going to be the last president because he would not allow another election. He would create a terrorist incident and declare marshall law so that he could stay in power indefinitely and be a total dictator. Now we have Obama. Who will be next?

Have we ever heard the story of the little boy who cried "wolf?"

Precisely, Habanero!  And in applying this expectation to every significant world event we both cheapen the prophecy in the eyes of each generation and short circuit our very present.  This keeps us off balance and our focus narrow and unrealistic.  While one's eyes need to be properly focused on God, on living in this world in a manner that contributes to the edification of humanity and on seeing the true big picture, they are, instead, focused on the next possible anti-Christ or political issue that may bring about the Sunday Law or other endtime persecution.  Yes, exactly like the little boy who cried "wolf"!

Oh, btw, we mustn't forget that JFK, with his connections to the RCC, was also going to be the last President.

Grandma,

 You are preaching hard today, ease up a bit on the brethren there a bit.... But then should we just ignore the signs of the times and let the end come with no signal fires.........hmmmm

[calvin]

Oh, btw, we mustn't forget that JFK, with his connections to the RCC, was also going to be the last President.

Ah yes, 1960 JFK, I was just 8yo then.  Remember it clearly, the only time my mother and grandmother voted for a republican in Richard Nixon.  JFK was going to be the first catholic president, surely this was the beginning of the time of the end.  John Kerry is Catholic (4 years ago) and so is Joe Biden, and not a mention in Adventist circles.. go figure.

[GrandmaNettie]

All that aside, we SDAs do have this propensity for latching onto anything new and declaring it the sign that we have reached the end of time. All my life I have lived with that and seen that. But that is how it has always been. The diciples thought Jesus would return in their lives. Every time Rome fell, they thought it was the end of all time because they were the center of the true church and the greatest power on earth. When the Bulgarian hordes and their Central European allies surrounded Byzantium, it was the end of time, because this city was the center of the true church and was now the greatest power on earth. When the Koresh compound went down in flames, the inhabitants knew that this was the beginning of the apocalypse. When Carter was elected, he was to be the last President for SDA reason that I don't remember. When Reagan was elected, he was going to bring on the national Sunday law. When Bush was elected, he was the former head of the CIA so he was going to institute a KGB/Gulag situation. When Clinton was elected, he was going to turn the country over to our enemies and bring on the end of time because he was going to be anti-American and weak. When GW Bush was elected, he was going to be the last president because he would not allow another election. He would create a terrorist incident and declare marshall law so that he could stay in power indefinitely and be a total dictator. Now we have Obama. Who will be next?

Have we ever heard the story of the little boy who cried "wolf?"

Precisely, Habanero!  And in applying this expectation to every significant world event we both cheapen the prophecy in the eyes of each generation and short circuit our very present.  This keeps us off balance and our focus narrow and unrealistic.  While one's eyes need to be properly focused on God, on living in this world in a manner that contributes to the edification of humanity and on seeing the true big picture, they are, instead, focused on the next possible anti-Christ or political issue that may bring about the Sunday Law or other endtime persecution.  Yes, exactly like the little boy who cried "wolf"!

Oh, btw, we mustn't forget that JFK, with his connections to the RCC, was also going to be the last President.

Grandma,

 You are preaching hard today, ease up a bit on the brethren there a bit.... But then should we just ignore the signs of the times and let the end come with no signal fires.........hmmmm

Well, bless your heart, son, for your concern.  However, this is only my 6th post in this thread.  I'm stating my opinions on things that have been presented by others.  That's the point of a forum, right?

Might be a good idea to save some wood for signaling the actual end of all things and, in the meantime, focus on fulfilling the Gospel commission (you know, the one about feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, etc).

[Habanero]

Are you certain that Obama's policies are as some have represented them?  I read a blog linked by Huffington Post that raises doubts that they are.  In fact, the article indicates that Obama is attempting, with the bill he has written/sponsored, to narrow the scope of the late term abortions.

I lived in IL when Obama was in the statehouse and when this issue came to a the state senate in 2001 and 2002. Obama supported the most radical of abortion bills I have ever seen. These were bills that would stop doctors from being able to provide life support and care for infants who survived abortion attempts. I was following those bills and watched their rise and fall. I carefully watched who supported them, and Obama's support was consistent. His record speaks for itself. There is no interpreting that away, nor do I believe for one moment that he wouldn't support it again, as he has never done or said anything on the record to show definitively that his position has changed.

I simply cannot grasp that a man would require that a baby be left on a table to cry until it dies, and make it a crime for anyone to help that baby. Can you? Do you support that? Do you support putting people in a position to make that the law who have made that the consistent record of what they want as law? I don't understand how you could, but I guess I wasn't put on this earth to understand everything.

[Habanero]

On the other hand, I think it is good that honest debate is finally arising. During the race it seemed almost a taboo thing to voice actual opinions, but now we are finally talking about these things and I think that is healthy. There is such a variety of thought and reasoning represented even in small groups. Very interesting.

[GRAT]

All that aside, we SDAs do have this propensity for latching onto anything new and declaring it the sign that we have reached the end of time. All my life I have lived with that and seen that. But that is how it has always been. The diciples thought Jesus would return in their lives. Every time Rome fell, they thought it was the end of all time because they were the center of the true church and the greatest power on earth. When the Bulgarian hordes and their Central European allies surrounded Byzantium, it was the end of time, because this city was the center of the true church and was now the greatest power on earth. When the Koresh compound went down in flames, the inhabitants knew that this was the beginning of the apocalypse. When Carter was elected, he was to be the last President for SDA reason that I don't remember. When Reagan was elected, he was going to bring on the national Sunday law. When Bush was elected, he was the former head of the CIA so he was going to institute a KGB/Gulag situation. When Clinton was elected, he was going to turn the country over to our enemies and bring on the end of time because he was going to be anti-American and weak. When GW Bush was elected, he was going to be the last president because he would not allow another election. He would create a terrorist incident and declare marshall law so that he could stay in power indefinitely and be a total dictator. Now we have Obama. Who will be next?

Have we ever heard the story of the little boy who cried "wolf?"

AMEN!!  I remember when I was in high school being at the Oregon Conference Campmeeting and a speaker in the youth tent said that the civil rights movement would bring the end and would cause the signing of the Sunday Laws that were ready and waiting to be signed. 

Whether you agree with Obama's politics or not it was a great moment in history.

[tinka]

Calvin,

The Kennedys were not assinated because of being a Catholic!! But their politics were as they did turncoat for the people. And then it was realized.

[GrandmaNettie]

I simply cannot grasp that a man would require that a baby be left on a table to cry until it dies, and make it a crime for anyone to help that baby. Can you? Do you support that? Do you support putting people in a position to make that the law who have made that the consistent record of what they want as law? I don't understand how you could, but I guess I wasn't put on this earth to understand everything.

No, I don't agree with any law that forces anyone to allow a viable child to lay on a table in such trauma until it dies.  I don't know the background of the laws that were created to demand such or make any pretense to understanding them.  I don't personally agree with abortion except in very specific circumstances but it is presently the law of this land.  It is a poor solution to a far larger problem that needs to be addressed.

I also don't agree with capital punishment because the taking of a life should be left in the hands of our Creator.  I know I may have opened a can of vegieworms with that one, but it's how I feel.  But that again is presently the law of the land, at least in some states.

I don't agree with how we run some of our wars, as I've mention in a recent post.  We still don't value all life enough.  Yes, I know the OT is full of examples where the COI were told to wipe out young and old alike.  Someday I will ask Him "what's up with that?". 

I suppose that a win-win solution to these issues would be to completely outlaw abortion, have the various branches of the military responsible for delivering and raising the unwanted children as soldiers and put the death row inmates on the front lines of battles without helmets or body armor.  Of course, this is a ludicrous solution that would solve nothing. 

Yes, Habanero, it is a good thing to have healthy debate.  All of us can learn by honestly and openly looking at the issues.

[calvin]

Calvin,

The Kennedys were not assinated because of being a Catholic!! But their politics were as they did turncoat for the people. And then it was realized.

Tinka,

I can only assume you must have misunderstood my post.  Kennedy's election as president as the first RCC cause much fear in the SDA church at the time. Sunday laws would be enforced and SDAs would face persecution, etc.  My mother told me now almost 50 years ago that I would never growup into manhood, the Lord would be here by then.

Was not referring to his assination.

[GRAT]

Calvin,

The Kennedys were not assinated because of being a Catholic!! But their politics were as they did turncoat for the people. And then it was realized.

Excuuuuuuuse me?  Are you saying what I think you are saying?  That the Kennedys deserved to be assinated?