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[sonshineonme]

Well our little school has kids bulging out the door and others wishing they could come, and I am trying to find a way to get each and everyone of them in and find financing for them so the parents can afford it. If church members made it their goal to find a way so that every Adventist child and any other that wanted to come to our schools could attend and get financial support, and members who assisted and encouraged them to come, all our schools would be full to capacity.

Members need to care, have a little love in their heart for others and act on it, do that and the financial and other problems are solved.....

My wife told me that the unspoken Adventist rule of thumb back in the day was every Adventist child that wanted would get a Adventist education whether they could pay or not the full tuition, and the members took care of it, we seemed to have forgotten that ..........

I wonder at times just what is best? Parents both working away from the home so that they can afford to pay for the kids to go to SDA Schools, or one parent staying at home, and being there for the children, when they come home from public schools? 

My husband and I both worked 12 hour shifts to fund our 4 kid's way through SDA Schools. We often wonder what would have been different had one parent been at home all the time. One can only do what they think is best in the given circumstances, but I think if I had my time over again, I'd stay home and send the kids to public schools.

I just thank God that HE is part of the parenting that happens with our kids. I don't think there is a right or easy answer, but God knows our motives and intentions, and He loves our children more then we do. We do our part and trust God to do His.

I stayed home full time with my daughter until she was in 1st grade.  One of us always did what we could to get her after school and be there then. And as she got older, we were fortunate enough to be around in some way after school. Oddly, in her first 6 years of life, I took care of other working parents children who were not school age yet so I could be home and make something ($1 an hour can you believe!!) and they were happy to have me because they knew there was structure in my child-care environment.

A couple who were great friends of ours, were both nurses, and I took care of their children for 5 years as they worked long shifts that bought them longer weekends and other bulk periods of time with their children.

I think if you do what God seems to put there for you, and if you can get a bit of help from family and friends, so everyone is in it together, our kids learn many of our values no matter which way we do it and that can't be bad.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Gailon - someone was saying something to the effect that the program at AUC was faltering for want of students... anything to that? 

AUC has many problems, not the least of which is the adventist apartheid problem. AUC does not have the support of two very important constituencies:
Atlantic Union College Alumni;
Atlantic Union Conference constituency.

The enrollment continues to be challenged and does not seem to have a real solution. Frankly, whites will not support it for very prejudicial reasons and blacks will not support it because they already have their own college and view AUC as a white college. Some would argue that is reverse prejudice. Therefore, it is safe to assume that it will not be a collage at some point when the Union finally either decides it is a waste of time or they simply run out of money, or both.

The very reason for the existence of the Atlantic Union Conference is subject to concern as we have no hospitals left, we have no union academies, we have no Union institutions, it suffers from polished but lackluster leadership and is certain to loose its college either to a merger or a simple closure. 

Is their a solution...yes, reformation and atonement would go far but you have an academic community headed by a man who is of questionable SDA beliefs and would be quite happy if the name Ellen G. White was never spoken again.

I have no faith in his solutions, which so far are too little too late for too mnay problems. The problem is not money, it is spiritual. They just don't got the power!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

[reddogs]

Gailon - someone was saying something to the effect that the program at AUC was faltering for want of students... anything to that? 

AUC has many problems, not the least of which is the adventist apartheid problem. AUC does not have the support of two very important constituencies:
Atlantic Union College Alumni;
Atlantic Union Conference constituency.

The enrollment continues to be challenged and does not seem to have a real solution. Frankly, whites will not support it for very prejudicial reasons and blacks will not support it because they already have their own college and view AUC as a white college. Some would argue that is reverse prejudice. Therefore, it is safe to assume that it will not be a collage at some point when the Union finally either decides it is a waste of time or they simply run out of money, or both.

The very reason for the existence of the Atlantic Union Conference is subject to concern as we have no hospitals left, we have no union academies, we have no Union institutions, it suffers from polished but lackluster leadership and is certain to loose its college either to a merger or a simple closure. 

Is their a solution...yes, reformation and atonement would go far but you have an academic community headed by a man who is of questionable SDA beliefs and would be quite happy if the name Ellen G. White was never spoken again.

I have no faith in his solutions, which so far are too little too late for too mnay problems. The problem is not money, it is spiritual. They just don't got the power!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

Why do you say Atlantic Union College is for whites/blacks?.....where does that come from?

[reddogs]

If you look at the tuition it just keeps going up and up, that is what needs to be addressed first as it is what affects heavily a students decision to come...

 Atlantic Union College
 
338 Main St
South Lancaster, MA 015611000  General information
Financial aid office
Admissions office  (978) 368-2000 Ext.
(978) 368-2280 Ext.
(978) 368-2235 Ext.
 

 
Type of institution: Private not-for-profit, 4-year or above 
Federal Aid: Institution has a Program Participation Agreement with the US Department of Education for eligible students to receive Pell Grants and other federal aid. 
Degrees offered: Certificates/Less-than-2-year certificate, Certificates/Less-than-2-year certificate, Associate degree, Bachelor degree, Certificates/Postbaccalaureate certificate, Certificates/Postbaccalaureate certificate, Master's degree
Carnegie classification: Baccalaureate Colleges--Arts & Sciences 
Number of students: 488 (2005) 
2006-07 Undergraduate application fee: $25.00

 
Academic year prices for full-time, first-time undergraduate students
Tuition and Fees 2006-07 2005-06 2004-05
In-State ...$14,380 ...$13,500 ...$12,860
Out of State ..$14,380 ..$13,500 ..$12,860
Books and Supplies ..$600 ..$600 ..$1,000
On-Campus
Room and board ..$4,500 ..$4,500 ..$4,180
Other Expenses ...$500 ...$2,000 ...$2,000
Off Campus
Room and board ..$4,500 ..$4,500 ..$4,180
Other Expenses ..$2,000 ..$2,000 ..$2,000
Off Campus w/ family
Other Expenses ..$6,500 ..$6,500 ..$6,180
 

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

An Adventist college and Adventist institutions should not adhere to apartheid principles in any way. There should be institutions that recognize the ability and acheivements of individuals regardless of race or other designations. If there is a college in the Atlantic Union, it should be available and "Affordable" to every SDA youth / college student regardless of background.

Of course it would be nice to have the four hospitals we use to have back as well.

We should be a model of indiscriminate living in a discriminate world.

If this cannot be, there is no good reason to exist.

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Ozzie]

An Adventist college and Adventist institutions should not adhere to apartheid principles in any way. There should be institutions that recognize the ability and acheivements of individuals regardless of race or other designations. If there is a college in the Atlantic Union, it should be available and "Affordable" to every SDA youth / college student regardless of background.

Of course it would be nice to have the four hospitals we use to have back as well.

We should be a model of indiscriminate living in a discriminate world.

If this cannot be, there is no good reason to exist.

Gailon Arthur Joy

 

[reddogs]

An Adventist college and Adventist institutions should not adhere to apartheid principles in any way. There should be institutions that recognize the ability and acheivements of individuals regardless of race or other designations. If there is a college in the Atlantic Union, it should be available and "Affordable" to every SDA youth / college student regardless of background.

Of course it would be nice to have the four hospitals we use to have back as well.

We should be a model of indiscriminate living in a discriminate world.

If this cannot be, there is no good reason to exist.

Gailon Arthur Joy

You keep using "apartheid principles" what do you mean, that they hate some race or another? Are you saying that about the professors and teachers in Atlantic Union College or the 'Bostonians' that go to Atlantic Union College, or the Administration of Atlantic Union College, who are you talking about...

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

I am talking about the principal of maintaining "seperate but equal" facilities and administrative entities throughout the North American Division. Having "regional conferences" that then fight for control of assets and facilities from "conferences" that they overlap is archaic and is a form of Adventist Apartheid. It also represents a waste of assets and lost economies of scale that should be applied to simply "evangelize" all the people that are within a "conference" territory.

My experience is that the principal of "Seperate but equal" is really isolated and unequal for one group or another. Institutions suffer because neither group will properly support the institution and it will eventually loose it's vitality. We are christians, we either live together or die together. Heritage should not be an issue within the Remnant Church.

Gailon Arthur Joy

[reddogs]

I am talking about the principal of maintaining "seperate but equal" facilities and administrative entities throughout the North American Division. Having "regional conferences" that then fight for control of assets and facilities from "conferences" that they overlap is archaic and is a form of Adventist Apartheid. It also represents a waste of assets and lost economies of scale that should be applied to simply "evangelize" all the people that are within a "conference" territory.

My experience is that the principal of "Seperate but equal" is really isolated and unequal for one group or another. Institutions suffer because neither group will properly support the institution and it will eventually loose it's vitality. We are christians, we either live together or die together. Heritage should not be an issue within the Remnant Church.

Gailon Arthur Joy

The issue is not that simple, people tend to gravitate towards and interact with their own race, ethnic or or cultural origin or background. Thats why we have White, Black, Korean, Hatian, Spanish, Carribean, etc.. SDA churches. If you try to force integration in this area, you will meet with a lot of resitance, and the same if you try to dismantle the structure set up for some. It needs strong leadership and much work to get that done, we as members have to do the first part by deciding that is what we want done and electing those leaders needed to do the job. We have to open our hearts and our churches so that everyone feels loved and welcomed in them, and until that happens, nothing will change.....

[J.R. Layman]

If you look at the tuition it just keeps going up and up, that is what needs to be addressed first as it is what affects heavily a students decision to come...

Couple of points Reddog:

Several years ago, my nephew was "recruited" by my brother’s “friend” at AUC,  to go to AUC  (FWIW.....I spent 3 years there)  He lasted about 4 day's then went to AU. 

Couple of years ago, I looked at the "graduating class" assembled on the rear porch of Hankins Hall.   Guess what, NOT ONE WHITE MALE in the entire group!

I asked my physician friend, (and academy roommate….and best friend of my bothers and mine)  up in Maine why he didn't send his kids to AUC....he said AUC was so screwed up.....took a whole day to get "Registered," AND, at that, the "academic advisors" got it WRONG...because they couldn't even follow their own catalog!   But when he took his son up to the University of Maine....they were very "professional" and had his son "advised" and all registered in 3 hours!

I asked how many from Pinetree Memorial Academy in Freeport Maine graduated then went on to AUC.....the answer was that out of 22 graduates that year.  20 went to "Southern ," One went to AUC because of their Nursing Program. and one didn't go on to higher Education! 

You list the cost of an "Adventist" education, at AUC.   FWIW, my daughter attends a State University a 180 miles south of me.   Her "cost" is roughly $9,500 total for Tuition, fees and books for a year......and I find it cheaper to pay for her one bedroom loft Condo...with two Baths, Fireplace ect., then either living in a "dorm," Or sending her over to Keene Texas...where her "cost" would be roughly double!  Besides, she's getting an excellent education.....without all the racial disharmony which has infested "Adventist Education" since at least 1967!

FWIW….when I went to South Lancaster Academy back in 1964-1965 on the campus of AUC….AUC had over 700 students.  Now their lucky to get 488?  WHY WASTE the  time, and the money of the Atlantic Union Conference?

(At Angelo State University, Unlike AUC,......they don't have a bunch of Haitians from NYC....rioting and stabbing the Jamaicans in a campus RIOT!...where they had to call in all the 7 police departments from the nearby small towns!.........Likewise, unlike Oakwood College, in Huntville Ala……AT Angelo State University in San Angelo Texas….they don’t have RIOTS, where the whole local police department has to come out and arrest students….who try to destroy police cars!.....frankly the day of “Adventist” colleges is over…..and “Adventist” will be lucky to continue to finance places such as LLU!}

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Let me correct that and note that the days of Conference Sponsored Education is waining and close to its last legs. However, there are a number of alternatives that seem to be gaining ground and support that will gradually replace the old worn out institutions that have been plundered by an education system gone awry.

ANd no, I do not believe they have either the money or the intution to fix it. It would mean opening those old red books and closing revered institutions that defy logic and Adventism. But alas, it will be a slow, painful and financially draining process that simply will wear out the patience of the saints.

Vote with the wallet, stockholders. It is the one sure fire way your vote will count and be clearly understood.

Gailon Arthur Joy

[WillowRun]

My oldest daughter spent one year in an Adventist elementary school.  I didn't think she was doing well and put her in public school.  My three younger children have always attended public school.  I guess it was easier for me to come to that decision because I am a first Gen. Adventist.  I didn't have the multi generational tradition and family expectations to consider.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

My oldest daughter spent one year in an Adventist elementary school.  I didn't think she was doing well and put her in public school.  My three younger children have always attended public school.  I guess it was easier for me to come to that decision because I am a first Gen. Adventist.  I didn't have the multi generational tradition and family expectations to consider.

I am clearly a product of Adventist Education and proud of it...but that was two generations ago. My children are also products of Adventist Education and it was heart-ache and serious concerns repeatedly for the teaching and the teachers.
In fact, we home schooled my daughter for grades 5-8 and then sent her to another academy rather than the one just five miles away. It was an excellent choice but even there the theology just never met the gray matter for some reason. One has to recognize the regretable choices of children as the source of issues.

Somehow, the premise that you must love them enough to let them do their own thing, a concept a good friend propogates, just does not settle well with me. I still want to take her out to the woodshed for a little primal education on occasion.

I regret to admit, I have difficulty recommending that anyone make the sacrifice for the current conference schools, unless you are in an area where the public education is clearly deficient. One has to make up their own minds and look to the Lord for guidance, but with so many great online schools these days, it is difficult to justify handing them over to teachers who are no more grounded in the Faith than the boulder I just moved. I sometimes think a boulder has a better chance.

Gailon Arthur Joy