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[Bob Pickle]

Whether it be EGW or anyone else, I have a real problem with anyone who tries to ban the reading of literature in the name of religion or politics. That is the kind of thing done by the Taliban, the Nazis, Communism, Dark Age Catholicism, and every other group that has had a reason to keep their members in a state of intellectual darkness. We, as Adventists, have spoken out against the above groups for burning books and keeping their people from reading certain things and then we do the same thing. Do we have greater light now than Jesus did way back in his day? He made use of fiction in order to put points across.

She didn't call for a ban. It shouldn't take a ban.

Read what she actually wrote and tell me what specific concerns she had that you would have trouble with.

[Bob Pickle]

To date, yours is one of the most well-presented arguments I have read against the attack on the use of edifying literature.  Where was a voice like yours when I was accepting an "F" on principle in my PUC English Literature course (my major, btw) because the books I was supposed to read were on EGW's banned list?

It is sad that we haven't practiced what we preach. I recall the time I asked if there was a literature course I could take that didn't require the reading of works by pantheists, and I was told there were none.

We take the matter too lightly, too many of us. My how I devoured Star Trek books and shows, and then had temptations to become an atheist in high school because some of those Star Trek plots explained away the biblical concepts of God and Satan.

While researching the making of the atomic bomb, I was surprised to find that infidel books read at a young age led a number of the main contributing scientists to reject the Bible.

[bonnie]

She didn't call for a ban. It shouldn't take a ban.

Read what she actually wrote and tell me what specific concerns she had that you would have trouble with.

It seems to me if I remember right that EW did indeed  read fiction. I will have to go look that up I guess


But if you are saying that the following quote indicates the total of what EW meant and it is "gospel" according to you  or EW........They are air-castle builders, living in an unreal, an imaginary world. They become sentimental and have sick fancies

Among those I know,SDA or non-SDA I can't think of one that has read fiction and as a result have begun living in an unreal ,imaginary world or has developed sick fancies.
OTOH,I do know those that devote their time ,focus and energy into reading EW  become some pretty mean spirited people,always correcting and preaching to those that do not share their viewpoint

[Bob Pickle]

"You must be getting away from Jesus and His teachings and do not realize it" (5T 516).

...

Can you list what is acceptable? As far as I see it is a mighty short list and one comprised of EW books and the bible

Rather an absurd assertion. Would you like to try again?

There is a wealth of good reading out there that does not raise the concerns that Jesus testified by His Spirit through the prophet regarding.

According to this source, Spurgeon probably had similar concerns: http://books.google.com/books?id=u2I6TWXFEmQC&pg=PA438&lpg=PA438&dq=fiction+spurgeon

Probably a search could turn up some other major Christian leaders of the past who felt the same.

[Bob Pickle]

It seems to me if I remember right that EW did indeed  read fiction.

And what would that matter? Does that mean that since Peter denied Christ and lied, that we can deny Christ and lie?

Besides, the issue is not really over fiction.

Among those I know,SDA or non-SDA I can't think of one that has read fiction and as a result have begun living in an unreal ,imaginary world or has developed sick fancies.

Praise the Lord you don't know of anyone in that category. I truly wish I could say the same.

OTOH,I do know those that devote their time ,focus and energy into reading EW  become some pretty mean spirited people,always correcting and preaching to those that do not share their viewpoint

Huh? Are you saying that people shouldn't read what Jesus testified by His Spirit through the prophet?

How many infidels say the same thing about reading the Bible?

Do you believe that Ellen White's writings are the result of the true biblical gift of the Spirit known as the gift of prophecy?

[Bob Pickle]

I found a quote by the evangelist Charles Finney who headed up Oberlin College:

"10. Robbing God. Think of the instances in which you have misspent your time, squandering the hours which God gave you to serve Him and save souls, in vain amusements or foolish conversation, in reading novels or doing nothing; cases where you have misapplied your talents and powers of mind; where you have squandered money on your lusts, or spent it for things which you did not need, and which did not contribute to your health comfort, or usefulness. Perhaps some of you have laid out God’s money for tobacco. I will not speak of intoxicating drink for I presume there is no professor religion here that would drink it, and I hope there is none that uses that filthy poison, tobacco. Think of teachers, of religion using God’s money to poison themselves with tobacco!"

If the attitudes of today's Christian world are so different than those of yesteryear on such topics, one should wonder whether we are so further spiritually advanced than they, or whether they were so further spiritually advanced than we.

[Bob Pickle]

Dwight Moody:

"We need not go to Japan, or to China, or to India, to find people with idols. I will venture to say we have not got to go a mile to find them. They may not bow down to the gods of Egypt, the gods of iron, stone and wood, that they have made with their own hands; but anything that comes between me and the God of heaven is an idol; anything that disturbs my communion with God is an idol. And I will venture to say there is many a professed child of God today who makes an idol of the card-table, who makes an idol of novels, of dancing, of the theater, of fashion, of self, of pleasure, of money. There are many who bow down to the golden calf today; and the reason why there is so little power in the church of God today is that we have got too many idols."

[Bob Pickle]

Finney again:

"3. When there is a worldly spirit in the Church. It is manifest that the Church has sunk down into a low and backslidden state, when you see Christians conform to the world in dress, equipage, and “parties,” in seeking worldly amusements, and reading novels, and other books such as the world reads. It shows that they are far from God, and that there is great need of a revival of religion."

By the way, these quotes are not coming from the Bible or EW's books. I do read other things.

I even read court cases these days. Quite a few in fact.

[Bob Pickle]

George Whitefield. Wasn't he the colleague of John and Charles Wesley?

"You must likewise forget your father’s house. “Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and forget thy father’s house.” You are not here to cast off all affections unto natural relations; but you must forget all relations, so as to be ready to forgo all their favor, when it standeth in competition with that of the Lord Jesus Christ: and do not let your carnal friends and relations hinder you from closing with, and espousing the Lord Jesus. I earnestly beseech you to suffer the loss of any thing, rather than to lose his favors; you must indeed forget your own people, that is, you must forget all your evil customs which you have learned in your father’s house, and forsake all your vain conversation, your reading of plays, novels, or romances; and you must keep from learning to sing the songs of the drunkard; for Christ, if you are his spouse, hath redeem you."

[Bob Pickle]

John Wesley, founder of the Methodists:

"6. And even as to the hours assigned for study, are they generally spent to any better purpose? Not if they are employed in reading (as is too common) plays, novels, or idle tales, which naturally tend to increase our inbred corruption, and heat the furnace of our unholy desires seven times hotter than it was before? How little preferable is the laborious idleness of those who spend day after day in gaming or diversions vilely casting away that time the value of which they cannot know, till they are passed through it into eternity!"

[bonnie]

Rather an absurd assertion. Would you like to try again?

Let's see. No fiction because it will lead to sick fancies,living in an imaginary world.You really have to be careful with Black Beauty, Call of the Wild Old Yeller. Tom Sawyer sounds really bad pretty long list


You cannot play cards,Rook or Flinch,checkers and chess are out,limited sports,no roller skating where they play music,of course no movies,no TV.
wasn't it tennis that EW discouraged. Maybe in Australia.

 I am kind of fresh out of ideas for adventist young people

There is a wealth of good reading out there that does not raise the concerns that Jesus testified by His Spirit through the prophet regarding.

You may happen to believe every word EW uttered is straight from God, I do not think so. If so God got it wrong a few times. Was God the one that told EW the dangers of their silly cinching their waist till they could barely breath.
Of course it is not healthy,but are you going to tell me that God told EW that babies would inherit wasp waists. Someone was wrong there.

Probably a search could turn up some other major Christian leaders of the past who felt the same.

Personally I do not care to look up. I don't consider every word they say inspired either. My children were all avid readers and I most have chosen reasonably well as not one lives in an imaginary world or suffers from sick fancies.

[bonnie]

"3. When there is a worldly spirit in the Church. It is manifest that the Church has sunk down into a low and backslidden state, when you see Christians conform to the world in dress, equipage, and “parties,” in seeking worldly amusements, and reading novels, and other books such as the world reads. It shows that they are far from God, and that there is great need of a revival of religion."

By the way, these quotes are not coming from the Bible or EW's books. I do read other things.

I even read court cases these days. Quite a few in fact.

Court cases can be quite interesting. I know during my son's litigation I got in the habit of reading many.  I still find them interesting and what is really surprising is the people that have a record that pops up now and then.

I am not sure what this is to mean about worldly amusements. The way many instruct what EW said, almost everything except prayer,Bible reading EW's books is considered worldly

[bonnie]

George Whitefield. Wasn't he the colleague of John and Charles Wesley?

"You must likewise forget your father’s house. “Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and forget thy father’s house.” You are not here to cast off all affections unto natural relations; but you must forget all relations, so as to be ready to forgo all their favor, when it standeth in competition with that of the Lord Jesus Christ: and do not let your carnal friends and relations hinder you from closing with, and espousing the Lord Jesus. I earnestly beseech you to suffer the loss of any thing, rather than to lose his favors; you must indeed forget your own people, that is, you must forget all your evil customs which you have learned in your father’s house, and forsake all your vain conversation, your reading of plays, novels, or romances; and you must keep from learning to sing the songs of the drunkard; for Christ, if you are his spouse, hath redeem you."

Frankly if you are expecting me to follow the words of this man  concerning this you will wait a long time.


but you must forget all relations, so as to be ready to forgo all their favor, when it standeth in competition with that of the Lord Jesus Christ: and do not let your carnal friends and relations hinder you from closing with, and espousing


Not likely. I have many relatives that have turned their back on the church and this type of reasoning is a good example of why. I would truly like to see them in the kingdom and a ignoring of them is not the way.

[bonnie]

John Wesley, founder of the Methodists:

"6. And even as to the hours assigned for study, are they generally spent to any better purpose? Not if they are employed in reading (as is too common) plays, novels, or idle tales, which naturally tend to increase our inbred corruption, and heat the furnace of our unholy desires seven times hotter than it was before? How little preferable is the laborious idleness of those who spend day after day in gaming or diversions vilely casting away that time the value of which they cannot know, till they are passed through it into eternity!"

And you believe who is spending their day in gaming or vile diversions. 


Boy, you caught me in this one....and heat the furnace of our unholy desires seven times hotter than it was before

That Black beauty and Old Yeller was really an erotic book.  You mentioned Star Trek. I very rarely have evr watch TV,but I did enjoy watching Star Trek. Maybe that is why I believe in space ships and Clingons

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Whether it be EGW or anyone else, I have a real problem with anyone who tries to ban the reading of literature in the name of religion or politics. That is the kind of thing done by the Taliban, the Nazis, Communism, Dark Age Catholicism, and every other group that has had a reason to keep their members in a state of intellectual darkness. We, as Adventists, have spoken out against the above groups for burning books and keeping their people from reading certain things and then we do the same thing. Do we have greater light now than Jesus did way back in his day? He made use of fiction in order to put points across.

To date, yours is one of the most well-presented arguments I have read against the attack on the use of edifying literature.  Where was a voice like yours when I was accepting an "F" on principle in my PUC English Literature course (my major, btw) because the books I was supposed to read were on EGW's banned list?

Now we have clarity, Grandma and Bonnie...just plain rebels against the Spirit of Prophecy...no wonder you have a problem with identifying the truth!!! If your needle on the compass does not identify true north, you may just be headed the wrong direction.

Maybe, you should spend some time in the EG White Library and see if you can find true north!!! There is a sure path found in those pages and loads of foundational philosophy that will help you to see error with clarity.


Who, knows, Grandma, you might just figure out waht the TRUTH is.

Gailon Arthur Joy