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[daylily]

Sam said .."How Dare I?  Bob you have been digging your own grave for 2 years and with your attempted justification above, you just covered up the hole.  Even the few people left that read this forum can see how sick and twisted your thinking is. You are totally without reason, common sense or conscience.  I truly feel sorry for your family."

I'm sorry Sam but I've been reading these posts about 3ABN a long time and those that were on BSDA too. I really don't see Bob Pickle's thinking as twisted and sick.  It seems to me that he writes with a great deal of logic and reason and some of you don't. I don't know any of the people involved personally except Derrell but I can draw conclusions just from reading what each side posts here. 

[sonshineonme]

Well Sam, you have had your usual rant, no one has said much, it's been you and Bob mostly, and as you can see, your words make you look worse then anything you are trying to attempt to do to others. Who are you talking to anyway?? Yourself? People that come read here for information?, You apparently think that your words are magic and once they read them they will know the TRUTH!? Are you kidding yourself?? Yes. You are. You, like your kind do,  underestimate people's intelligence. In fact, you count on their trust in words....that old trick is about dead, not completely, as money is gushing in, right Sam? "Image"means nothing, letters from the BOD Chair don't mean anything anymore, for his words are anything but full of integrity.

The old mentality(sadly I'm afraid still works on some who don't think for themselves) is that if they hear miracle stories, it must be God. If they see a man on TV sitting there praising God, it must be because God is blessing him. Most people these days don't buy that dog and pony show anymore, they know there is much more to how sin works, how God works, and how people lie and deceive others for money. It's all around us isn't it Sam?

How long will you pretend Sam? How long will you play this denial game? Do you think that at some point people will suddenly believe you over their own eyes and ears? Over their own questions and answers? Over the testimony of those who tell the truth  and represent the picture of what has really happened because of such christians are you represent? Are you testing God Sam? Because you do know that He does not honor lies to justify a means? You do know that, right? Because if you don't, maybe it's time for you to sit down and get to know God, for He is about truth, not deception. He is about honesty and integrity, not misleading and playing word games. He is about love and mercy of all, not hate and discarding those in your way.  But more then anything, He is an example of what is right, and what shows by His rightness it what is clearly wrong - what is sin. Guess what Sam, you are clearly wrong about so many things.

[Fran]

Sam;

I understand your dilemma.  If you research and find just some of these things are true, you would have to do something about it, right?  But, if you do that you can kiss your ministry good-bye!  The unholy man you worship will blackball you and ruin all you have worked so hard for!  Get out before this happens to you and your husband!

Is it already too late for you?  Danny requires all or nothing!  You need Mable Dunbar to help you recognize the type of holy men that that you are attracted to!  She can help you recognize why you are attracted to them and help you know when to run for your life!  You are like the abused wife that keeps returning to her abusive husband,  He treats her great until she thinks for herself, then the serious abuse begins!

Wisdom is gained through knowledge.  It is up to you to gain that knowledge.  Please reconsider and read http://www.save-3abn.com, BSDA and here.  Then read 3ABNTalk.com!  Look only at the documents or the statements from true witnesses presented there.  Then compare those to Danny's words.  It won't take too long for you to see you have again been doped by a so called church leader!  You have a track record now of having an attraction to abusers in authoritative positions!

Accept this as your weakness.  It is the weakness of almost every other abused person on the earth.  I know!  I am one too!

Also your husband stands right beside you!  He was deceived also by the same persons!  Maybe he just follows your lead?  He has been abused too and he didn't do anything wrong.  All he did was support you in your first sin!  He has followed your right into the same situation again.  I would bet my last dollar that he believes everything you say!  He loves you and values you as an abused person with compassion.

He needs to get real and save you from this situation you have innocently walked into!  I am praying for you and your husband.

[Snoopy]

Attached is the latest filing.  Quite interesting.

[Eduard]

Neither of you are bread winners for your families. Honestly how sad that you have put on the robe of judge rather than put on the mantle of head of the house and bread winner as God ordained. Why not let God be the judge and you guys support your families?

 

    How Dare I?  Bob you have been digging your own grave for 2 years and with your attempted justification above, you just covered up the hole.  Even the few people left that read this forum can see how sick and twisted your thinking is. You are totally without reason, common sense or conscience.  I truly feel sorry for your family.
 

Sam,

In previous posts I have mentioned that your “linguistic competence” was that of a second grader who goes to school when she remembers. Since then you have “progressed” from illiteracy into logical fallacies (ad hominem and generalization). Your mental degenerations is alarming. I suggest that you seek immediate medical help. In the hope that despite your poor mental condition you still understand some English, I would like to make two points in reference to your recent messages:

In the first place, it is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS how Bob or Gailon make a living or pay their bills. In what passage of the Bible has God ordained that the man should be "the bread winner”? Can you mention any text? Have you ordained it, maybe? Nobody asks you how you make your living (though it might not be in the most appropriate way). How Bob and Gailon make a living is totally irrelevant to the matters. You are causing a diversion because you are exhausting even the boring tirades you have been recycling.

In the second place, you are delusional when you claim that “even the few people left that read this forum can see how sick and twisted your [Bob’s] thinking is.” How would you know?  Have you interviewed the members of this forum PERSONALLY, in order to find out what they think about Bob and Gailon? Of course, not! You are blowing soap bubbles!

The truth is that you are totally wrong in this matter. The “few people left” on this forum fully understand that YOU ARE THE ONE WITH A SICK AND TWISTED MIND. If you were smart you would go away and hide your intellectual nakedness, but because you are a fool you keep repeating the same nonsense over and over again. Solomon was right when he said that fools never learn, and never stop in their foolishness until they are covered by the ground of the hole they have dug for themselves.

Eduard
 

[Sam]

Bob, on numerous occasions you challenge us to show where you have twisted words and lied to please yourself. Let's take for example the statement below when talking about the Illinois court case.
You said let's talk. OK let's talk about it Bob.
 
Quote from Bob Pickle: "Plus he said that 3ABN wasn't making a profit on those video sales when Danny was making a whopping profit on his book sales"
Your lie Bob.  The innocent reader of your post would have been deceived. You leave no margin of error that you could have been wrong. You make several statements that are lies.

Please tell us Bob where you find any whopping profits discussed, shown or proven in the Illinois tax case. You should remember that the Illinois case was all about the years 2000 and some of 2001 at most. It might be good for you to note when Danny's books were written.  So Bob, what books were written by Danny at that time that you have evidence that he made a "whopping" profit. And where are the figures to back your "whopping profit on book sales". The only relative statement to "whopping" is the lie you tell.  You and Gailon both have become your own worst enemy. It is your lies, innuendos and accusations that have caused everyone to distance themselves from you.  Do you think anyone in the church would ever hire you? Why not? Is it because of DS and 3ABN? No. It is because of the obvious mental instability and dishonesty that you have shown. As soon as people disagree with you, as well as Gailon,turn on them and twist their words. Your last two years or so on the web will be your diary for eternity Bob.  Sad...your Angels don't even have to write down your sins of judging others and spreading rumors because of pride... It is all written down by none other than yourself!

Your whole case against Danny and 3ABN has been made by lies and innuendos.
 
Bob, it is deceiving to the uninformed reader of your post when you say, And I quote you Bob, "Don't you know that lying is a sin? What you just wrote is a bald face lie, and I am certain that you know it."  First of all I do know that lying is a sin, but it seems you either don't know how often you lie or don't care!

For instance...I believe I read somewhere in the court docs that you were a pastor? You have made references to being a pastor in other places also. Bob is that true? Are you a full fledged SDA minister? Have you pastored any conference churches because so far I haven't found any records of such. A yes or no will work well here. Any hedging will tell us what we need to know. It's an easy, simple question.

Bob you continue to deceive people into believing that 3ABN is hiding something about the IRS case and that 3ABN had to pay money to the IRS to satisfy whatever wrongs they found. Is that not what you are insinuating Bob?  You and Fran and Snoop and Gailon all  try to convince people that the IRS did not shut down the case without fining 3ABN.  That is a lie. Your lie Bob, not mine. The case was closed. 3ABN never negotiated any fines, no not one, nor were they asked or demanded to pay any fines by the IRS. The IRS is satisfied that after looking over 100,000 pages of documents for nearly a year that 3ABN was not guilty of any wrong doing. It doesn't make any difference what you say. Even the house deal you bring up.  There is not and never was anything wrong or illegal with what transpired. DS had the counsel of attorneys and accountants. You cry foul when the experts say everything is above board. Same old pattern Bob. You don't have all your matching numbers but want to be the first to cry BINGO!  Just because DS and 3ABN have never answered to you does'nt give you the right to invent your own scenerio's, twist the facts and falsely accuse them.

Bob let me give you something that maybe you can comprehend.  There are millions of people who say that SDA's are wrong about keeping the seventh day Sabbath. Bob the list of accusers against SDA's include theologians from nearly all religious backgrounds. They try to show bible scripture to prove that the 10 commandments and the seventh day sabbath was nailed to the cross and therefore one may keep any day of the week he wants with God's blessings. Most people like your buddy Duane Clem laugh at SDA's for their beliefs. (Yes, I do have numerous witnesses that have told me of Duane's insensitive comments about the ignorance of SDA's keeping the Sabbath while he worked there)

Anyway my point Bob, is this.  No matter how many people tell you that the law was nailed to the cross and use Col 2:14 to prove it...you know they are wrong...Why?...because they are not looking at all the pieces of the puzzle, they don't have all the numbers lined up, yet they cry Bingo, Bob.  I know you believe that on judgment day you will be exonerated of these false accusations against your religious beliefs by none other than God himself. Don't you think some of these people who have said the Sabbath was nailed to the cross will be shocked, should they make it heaven, to find that creation will even be keeping the Sabbath in heaven?  Finally everyone will know you were not an ignorant reader of the bible. Hey Bob, God will be on your side.
 
Bob, I liken you to the accusers against SDA's for still keeping the sabbath. They seem to have the proof that the sabbath was nailed to the cross after reading Col 2:14-16.  I liken 3ABN to the ones being accused of wrongly keeping the Sabbath.  3ABN and DS have not only read the text in Col. but have taken all the text of the bible to find out that the others against the keeping of the Sabbath are only surface readers. In the case of the Sabbath Bob you have the truth, the accusers like Duane C. do not no matter how zealous they are they are wrong!
 
Bob no matter how zealous you and your gang is...you are still wrong. The IRS is likened in this parable to the judge as Jesus will be end the end. The judge has spoken and 3ABN has been exonerated of wrong doing, case closed!
 

[guide4him]

Sam,

Personally I don't have any reason to write my opinion or observations which is all I can contribute. I don't have an inside track to good documents to prove a case.  I have been reading for two plus years. Just because someone doesn't post doesn't mean they aren't reading. I imagine there are a lot of other folk out there who are reading but not adding their two cents worth.

 Not once have you given any documents to back up your claims that Joy and Pickle are wrong.

All 3ABN defenders have done the same thing. I see a lot of documents to back up what Joy and Pickle are claiming. Also others are coming out to tell their stories or witnesses of abuse Danny Shelton has heaped on them. I met a lady who with her husband backing her up about Danny calling on her on the telephone and yelling on and on how terrible Linda Shelton is, on the other hand the lady never heard a bad word from Linda against Danny Shelton/3ABN. All Linda ever did was talk wonderful words about 3ABN ministry that had been her baby when she started it with her husband in the early days.

To me your words mean nothing.  No documents to back yourself up. Bob has repeatedly asked you for documents. You nor anyone else backing 3ABN have produced documents against Linda or prove 3ABN BOD, Danny Shelton, J. Lomacane (don't know spelling of his name), Brenda Walsh and others to be telling the truth.

I had been watching in BSDA and Advent Talk and so far your side has never produced proof of any kind that 3ABN is truthful. Still waiting.....

but NOT holding my breath.

[tinka]

Sam,
Who in the world are you that Danny Shelton is going to give you a whole inside detailed scope of his factual deeds of how he stashes and uses SDA money??? You must be his spouse or follower but then again I do not think he would even tell all his shenanigans and inner workings except for those that help him and eat the hay .

You even sound like a worshiper of DS You do not even realize how you come across. You are on top of things you think- and your trying hard for everyone to believe you when it is obvious that you have multiple disorders. Your parallels are clear off the wall.  Danny Shelton is smarter then that, he would never tell anyone that talks as much nonsense and over and over like you do. He would be a fool to trust one of your personalities.

[Johann]

There seem to be different concepts as to what is the truth. Both my former wife and I were staying with Dr. Arild Abrahamsen at his house and clinic during the time Danny accused Linda of being together with him in Florida, so we know that Danny was not telling the truth. During the discussions I had with Danny Shelton and Dr. Walt Thompson, I discovered those men had a different concept of what is truth. Both of them explained to me in different ways that truth is not necessarily a description of what really happened, but "truth", in a case like this, is whatever story can be told in a way that does not hurt the Ministry of 3ABN.

I will accept that love and faith hides many sins, but I do not accept it being a Christian way of handling sins when another person is accused of, and punished for sins that someone else has committed. In this case it was suggested to Linda that she admit a sin she had not committed, because that would save the reputation of this ministry.

When I know that people use these methods of making up stories to cover up sins, because they think it will save their own reputation, and thereby the ministry they represent, I have no confidence in any unsubstantiated claims they make - just like you are stating, guide4him.

[Snoopy]

DS had the counsel of attorneys and accountants.

   So did Enron!!  What's your point?

[Bob Pickle]

Quote from Bob Pickle: "Plus he said that 3ABN wasn't making a profit on those video sales when Danny was making a whopping profit on his book sales"
Your lie Bob.

You sound like Danny. He accuses people of lying when they make simple or honest mistakes. That's wrong.

The innocent reader of your post would have been deceived. You leave no margin of error that you could have been wrong. You make several statements that are lies.

Please tell us Bob where you find any whopping profits discussed, shown or proven in the Illinois tax case.

I never said they were proven in the property tax case. Where did I ever say that?

You should remember that the Illinois case was all about the years 2000 and some of 2001 at most. It might be good for you to note when Danny's books were written. So Bob, what books were written by Danny at that time that you have evidence that he made a "whopping" profit. And where are the figures to back your "whopping profit on book sales".

The 2001 summary sheet shows a literature expense of $105,779.46. Danny reported sales on his 2001 Sched. C for D & L Publishing of $75,800. 3ABN reported on their 2001 financial statement that they bought $75,000 inventory from an entity owned by two board members.

Thus, most of 3ABN's expense for "video sales" inventory must have gone to Danny.

And how much did Danny make on those sales? $20,800 is what he reported. And there were royalties that year as well.

$20,800 is a substantial profit when you consider that Danny reported no inventory and no advertising. But he did report using 666 sq. ft. out of 3,456 of his home for business.

How likely is it, do you think, that Alan Lovejoy didn't know that Danny had reported $20,800 of profit off of sales of $75,800? Problem is that Lovejoy did Danny's 2001 tax return as well as 3ABN's 2001 audit. So he should have known that the $75,800 of sales on Danny's tax return was the $75,000 of purchases 3ABN reported from an entity owned by two board members.

Perhaps I should have used a different word than whopping, since I forgot that the tax case was just about 2000 and 2001. But I think it dishonest for 3ABN to argue that there weren't royalties to speak of other than $20 for Linda's music when Danny reported $2716 in royalties for 2001 alone.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Pardon me for my illumination...SAM DOESN'T KNOW ANY OF THIS or SAM would have shut up and resigned a long time ago. SAM is swayed by the safety of the institution that protects them...despite the dirty hands of the founder and his family. That is all ignorable, because it suites SAM to protect them in return...has to pay the dues somehow!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

Well Sam, you have had your usual rant, no one has said much, it's been you and Bob mostly, and as you can see, your words make you look worse then anything you are trying to attempt to do to others. Who are you talking to anyway?? Yourself? People that come read here for information?, You apparently think that your words are magic and once they read them they will know the TRUTH!? Are you kidding yourself?? Yes. You are. You, like your kind do,  underestimate people's intelligence. In fact, you count on their trust in words....that old trick is about dead, not completely, as money is gushing in, right Sam? "Image"means nothing, letters from the BOD Chair don't mean anything anymore, for his words are anything but full of integrity.

The old mentality(sadly I'm afraid still works on some who don't think for themselves) is that if they hear miracle stories, it must be God. If they see a man on TV sitting there praising God, it must be because God is blessing him. Most people these days don't buy that dog and pony show anymore, they know there is much more to how sin works, how God works, and how people lie and deceive others for money. It's all around us isn't it Sam?

How long will you pretend Sam? How long will you play this denial game? Do you think that at some point people will suddenly believe you over their own eyes and ears? Over their own questions and answers? Over the testimony of those who tell the truth  and represent the picture of what has really happened because of such christians are you represent? Are you testing God Sam? Because you do know that He does not honor lies to justify a means? You do know that, right? Because if you don't, maybe it's time for you to sit down and get to know God, for He is about truth, not deception. He is about honesty and integrity, not misleading and playing word games. He is about love and mercy of all, not hate and discarding those in your way.  But more then anything, He is an example of what is right, and what shows by His rightness it what is clearly wrong - what is sin. Guess what Sam, you are clearly wrong about so many things.

[Bob Pickle]

Your whole case against Danny and 3ABN has been made by lies and innuendos.

Could you name some, please?
 

For instance...I believe I read somewhere in the court docs that you were a pastor?

Where?

Have you pastored any conference churches because so far I haven't found any records of such.

Seems to me that that information has been available to the public for more than a year. If you haven't read what I wrote on that, I'll let you find it.

Bob you continue to deceive people into believing that 3ABN is hiding something about the IRS case and that 3ABN had to pay money to the IRS to satisfy whatever wrongs they found.

Where did I say that 3ABN had to pay money? What I've said is that it is a bald face lie that there aren't either infractions or discrepancies, and everyone with a half a brain who had read the documentation knows that.

Reporting horses as cash on a Sched. A is an infraction or discrepancy. Plain and simple. Denying that there was a section 4958 excess benefit transaction when there was one is an infraction or discrepancy. Plain and simple. And you can't prove otherwise.

[Bob Pickle]

You and Fran and Snoop and Gailon all  try to convince people that the IRS did not shut down the case without fining 3ABN.  That is a lie. Your lie Bob, not mine. The case was closed.

Prove it.

3ABN never negotiated any fines, no not one, nor were they asked or demanded to pay any fines by the IRS.

Prove it.

The IRS is satisfied that after looking over 100,000 pages of documents for nearly a year that 3ABN was not guilty of any wrong doing.

Prove it.

Problem is, 3ABN had a chance to prove it. We were going to subpoena records from the US Attorney. But they didn't want us to. Why not? They dismissed the case before we could get those records. Why?

It really looks like they were trying to hide the truth form the American people.

It doesn't make any difference what you say. Even the house deal you bring up.

Simpson admitted I was right on that one, that since Duffy said they didn't produce documents, that the IRS wouldn't have vindicated Danny of that house deal.

[Bob Pickle]

There is not and never was anything wrong or illegal with what transpired.

Sure there was. Danny said there wasn't a section 4958 excess benefit transaction, and there certainly was one.

DS had the counsel of attorneys and accountants.

Attorneys who never lie?

You cry foul when the experts say everything is above board.

Prove that the accountants said there was nothing wrong. Prove it.

Bob let me give you something that maybe you can comprehend.  There are millions of people who say that SDA's are wrong about keeping the seventh day Sabbath. Bob the list of accusers against SDA's include theologians from nearly all religious backgrounds. They try to show bible scripture to prove that the 10 commandments and the seventh day sabbath was nailed to the cross and therefore one may keep any day of the week he wants with God's blessings.

Come to think of it, those "accusers" and you Danny clones have something in common. When it comes down to it you refuse to substantiate your assertions. Got to just take your word for it.

Most people like your buddy Duane Clem laugh at SDA's for their beliefs.

He has always spoken respectively of Adventist beliefs to me.

Anyway my point Bob, is this.  No matter how many people tell you that the law was nailed to the cross and use Col 2:14 to prove it...you know they are wrong...Why?...because they are not looking at all the pieces of the puzzle, they don't have all the numbers lined up, yet they cry Bingo, Bob.

Nobody really believes that you can nail tables of stone to a cross. Anyone who thinks otherwise simply hasn't tried.

I liken 3ABN to the ones being accused of wrongly keeping the Sabbath.

Beware lest you sympathize with the erring and hinder them from confessing and repenting of their sins.