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[Snoopy]

I make no pretense of being one who has any great understanding of things legal, but I can see that my stating "per your bankruptcy documents you are legally separated" was potentially inaccurate since choice "b" also states "or my spouse and I are living apart other than for the purpose of evading the requirements of (symbol) 707(b)(2)(A) of the Bankruptcy Code."  I should have not included "legally" in my statement.

Either way, legally separated or living apart other than for the purpose of evading the requirements of the bankruptcy code, isn't the point of checking box "b" to show that the married couple is separated and that the other spouse's income should not be considered in the bankruptcy case because of that separation?

If the separate living quarters is just a case of personal preference, like Woody Allen and Mia Farrow lived for years, that would not preclude the income of Mrs. Joy from being considered in the bankruptcy, would it?

Jeannette,

I have been trying very hard to refrain from responding to this last series of posts, but I find myself being overcome by disappointment.  Knowing you as well as I thought I did, I fail to see the point in your bringing this information here at all with the exception of casting aspersions on him and satisfying a certain amount of vindictiveness...  What on earth does Mr. Joy's marital status have to do with anything that you are trying to accomplish??

Ducking and running but still sad,

Snoopy

You know I adore you, Snoopy, and you do know me as well as you thought you did.  I hate to feel that I have disappointed anyone because I am human and relish affirmation and acceptance, but you know you would be disappointed with me if I didn't speak my mind here and there, if I didn't continue to search for truth and understanding. 

What was I trying to accomplish? I was trying to understand why Gailon made that statement against Linda.  As I said in my post to him, I can imagine the pressure he is under and then I had the bankruptcy document that had the "b" in Section II checked showing that he and his wife of so many years were separated.  All of these factors made me wonder if he had gotten so frustrated by all of the pressures that, perhaps, he was showing some of the frustration here when he was expressing his displeasure about Linda not supporting the cause.  His statement against Linda shocked me, Snoopy.  I didn't want to jump to conclusions so I tried to find out what the story was.  As I said, my behind the scenes attempts failed and the person I was discussing this with suggested it would be best to ask Gailon, so I did.

Yes, you surely did.  On a public forum.  If you were truly concerned, why not call or send an email or a PM?  Was this response from Ian a part of what you hoped to accomplish??  (This was the post that was there at around 2pm PST)  I really don't get what you are trying to do, but maybe that's just me

****************************************

Per Ian at BSDA:

The rather interesting conversation I quote below took place on AT in reference to the first document posted above.
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=233949

(I added the blue font below to highlight the part with relevance to this topic)


Has Gailon lied and (or) committed perjury in his Bankruptcy case???

[Sister]

Jeanette,

Since it is obvious that you would know how to contact Gailon privately, from comments that have passed between you and he on AT, I also wonder what was your motive in posting this publically and not contacting him privately? Your explanation is definitely eroding your credibility:

I didn't want to jump to conclusions so I tried to find out what the story was.  As I said, my behind the scenes attempts failed and the person I was discussing this with suggested it would be best to ask Gailon, so I did.

If you are really looking for the truth, Jeanette, I would suggest you always go first privately to the source, not relying on third or fourth hand information. I now understand how you have been so easily mislead by Appletree, Ian/Cindy and other unscrupulous individuals.

Sister

[GrandmaNettie]

I make no pretense of being one who has any great understanding of things legal, but I can see that my stating "per your bankruptcy documents you are legally separated" was potentially inaccurate since choice "b" also states "or my spouse and I are living apart other than for the purpose of evading the requirements of (symbol) 707(b)(2)(A) of the Bankruptcy Code."  I should have not included "legally" in my statement.

Either way, legally separated or living apart other than for the purpose of evading the requirements of the bankruptcy code, isn't the point of checking box "b" to show that the married couple is separated and that the other spouse's income should not be considered in the bankruptcy case because of that separation?

If the separate living quarters is just a case of personal preference, like Woody Allen and Mia Farrow lived for years, that would not preclude the income of Mrs. Joy from being considered in the bankruptcy, would it?

Jeannette,

I have been trying very hard to refrain from responding to this last series of posts, but I find myself being overcome by disappointment.  Knowing you as well as I thought I did, I fail to see the point in your bringing this information here at all with the exception of casting aspersions on him and satisfying a certain amount of vindictiveness...  What on earth does Mr. Joy's marital status have to do with anything that you are trying to accomplish??

Ducking and running but still sad,

Snoopy

You know I adore you, Snoopy, and you do know me as well as you thought you did.  I hate to feel that I have disappointed anyone because I am human and relish affirmation and acceptance, but you know you would be disappointed with me if I didn't speak my mind here and there, if I didn't continue to search for truth and understanding. 

What was I trying to accomplish? I was trying to understand why Gailon made that statement against Linda.  As I said in my post to him, I can imagine the pressure he is under and then I had the bankruptcy document that had the "b" in Section II checked showing that he and his wife of so many years were separated.  All of these factors made me wonder if he had gotten so frustrated by all of the pressures that, perhaps, he was showing some of the frustration here when he was expressing his displeasure about Linda not supporting the cause.  His statement against Linda shocked me, Snoopy.  I didn't want to jump to conclusions so I tried to find out what the story was.  As I said, my behind the scenes attempts failed and the person I was discussing this with suggested it would be best to ask Gailon, so I did.

Yes, you surely did.  On a public forum.  If you were truly concerned, why not call or send an email or a PM?  Was this response from Ian a part of what you hoped to accomplish??  (This was the post that was there at around 2pm PST)  I really don't get what you are trying to do, but maybe that's just me

****************************************

Per Ian at BSDA:

The rather interesting conversation I quote below took place on AT in reference to the first document posted above.
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=233949

(I added the blue font below to highlight the part with relevance to this topic)


Has Gailon lied and (or) committed perjury in his Bankruptcy case???

Snoopy, what I was trying to accomplish was to find out why Gailon made the statement he did about Linda.  I asked him about it on this public forum because two other members had also asked here. It was already a matter of discussion.  Were there only three members here who were surprised by the statement about Linda not supporting the cause?

It didn't help clarify things for Gailon to post the following:

And the "spectators"  wait with baited breathe!!!

And what would give you the right to an answer?

Would the answer given be satisfactory?

I rather doubt it and now you are left to your speculation!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

I was saddened to read in the bankruptcy document that Gailon and his wife were separated.  I  had heard they were trying to work things out from an individual that came into BSDA LC and went on and on about Gailon's church.  I have since deemed that individual unreliable due to information I received from Bob Pickle when he called me for assistance in another matter .  I figured this might be adding to the stressors he was under with everything else.  Since their marital status was an unchanged matter of public record per the bankruptcy document, I thought it was likely Mr. and Mrs. Joy were still separated.

When I asked the questions about the statement against Linda and replied to Gailon's surprising answer did I know that Ian would see Gailon's response about their marital status and decide to post a link to it on BSDA?  Absolutely not.  I was doing what I always do; looking for clarification and understanding and truth.

[GrandmaNettie]

Jeanette,

Since it is obvious that you would know how to contact Gailon privately, from comments that have passed between you and he on AT, I also wonder what was your motive in posting this publically and not contacting him privately? Your explanation is definitely eroding your credibility:

I didn't want to jump to conclusions so I tried to find out what the story was.  As I said, my behind the scenes attempts failed and the person I was discussing this with suggested it would be best to ask Gailon, so I did.

If you are really looking for the truth, Jeanette, I would suggest you always go first privately to the source, not relying on third or fourth hand information. I now understand how you have been so easily mislead by Appletree, Ian/Cindy and other unscrupulous individuals.

Sister

Sister

From recent experience I expect the same results from my attempts to privately ask Gailon for information as I  recently received from you when I privately asked for information.  Do you honestly think that Gailon would be any more forthcoming than you were?


I will repeat what I said to Snoopy. I did attempt to obtain the information from someone closely associated with Gailon but she told me to ask him.  I came back here and asked publically because Gailon made his statement about Linda publically and two other members publically asked questions about the post.  I was participating in a forum discussion just like any other member. 
 
Jeanette

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

[Quote/]
I was saddened to read in the bankruptcy document that Gailon and his wife were separated.  I  had heard they were trying to work things out from an individual that came into BSDA LC and went on and on about Gailon's church.  I have since deemed that individual unreliable due to information I received from Bob Pickle when he called me for assistance in another matter .  I figured this might be adding to the stressors he was under with everything else.  Since their marital status was an unchanged matter of public record per the bankruptcy document, I thought it was likely Mr. and Mrs. Joy were still separated.

When I asked the questions about the statement against Linda and replied to Gailon's surprising answer did I know that Ian would see Gailon's response about their marital status and decide to post a link to it on BSDA?  Absolutely not.  I was doing what I always do; looking for clarification and understanding and truth.
[/quote]

And I do not blame you. Frankly, I had no idea the wrong box was checked on the ECF Filing with the Bankruptcy Court. THe proper check and the one that is checked in my original document was letter C:  "Married, not filing jointly, without the declaration of seperate households. Spouse income is included in CMI but not DMI." SInce Mrs Joy did not have any income in 2007 it was not a material issue, but certainly could be confusing to those who did not know the difference.

Gailon Arthur Joy

[GrandmaNettie]

I was saddened to read in the bankruptcy document that Gailon and his wife were separated.  I  had heard they were trying to work things out from an individual that came into BSDA LC and went on and on about Gailon's church.  I have since deemed that individual unreliable due to information I received from Bob Pickle when he called me for assistance in another matter .  I figured this might be adding to the stressors he was under with everything else.  Since their marital status was an unchanged matter of public record per the bankruptcy document, I thought it was likely Mr. and Mrs. Joy were still separated.

When I asked the questions about the statement against Linda and replied to Gailon's surprising answer did I know that Ian would see Gailon's response about their marital status and decide to post a link to it on BSDA?  Absolutely not.  I was doing what I always do; looking for clarification and understanding and truth.

And I do not blame you. Frankly, I had no idea the wrong box was checked on the ECF Filing with the Bankruptcy Court. THe proper check and the one that is checked in my original document was letter C:  "Married, not filing jointly, without the declaration of seperate households. Spouse income is included in CMI but not DMI." SInce Mrs Joy did not have any income in 2007 it was not a material issue, but certainly could be confusing to those who did not know the difference.

Gailon Arthur Joy

I'm relieved this was just a mistake, Gailon.  So, Mrs. Joy and I are okay now? 

Is this document something that you will have to repair so there aren't judicial repercussions?

Any possibility we can get an explanation for your statement about Linda not supporting the cause?

[Doodle]

And I do not blame you. Frankly, I had no idea the wrong box was checked on the ECF Filing with the Bankruptcy Court. THe proper check and the one that is checked in my original document was letter C:  "Married, not filing jointly, without the declaration of seperate households. Spouse income is included in CMI but not DMI." SInce Mrs Joy did not have any income in 2007 it was not a material issue, but certainly could be confusing to those who did not know the difference.

Gailon Arthur Joy

While I hope it was a mistake, I have some concerns.

I apologise for that, but I am somewhat acquainted with bankruptcy laws and forms, and having read the document referred to in the link above, and now your explanation, it simply doesn't add up.

My reasons for saying this are because in the same means test in the next section, you are required to list your household size and include all dependants. According to what you say above, your wife would be one.

In section 3 you list your household size as 1, which might be a mistake also, but seems unlikely as you go one to list the required amount based on that number, which has to be looked up.

You lose an exemption that way, so it seems it would not be to your advantage to do this, but the reason for this form is also to make sure you have listed all assets, and I'm sure you must know that by  filing married but separate households, you don't have to do so.

I am sure you understand that doesn't look right, and will move to correct this as soon as possible to avoid the appearance of evil as well as avoid possible legal penalties or consequences.


Just a doodle   

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Next time I need a stay from creditors, I shall send it to you to do...maybe, just maybe, it would get done correctly. Beyond that, you will have to take up your issues with counsel.
I can assure you, that the means test was not a problem by that time. But speculate as you will. It will get you virtually no-where.

Given the direction of financial markets, it will be some time before it would be an issue. But, then again, who would believe we had any value in "Save3ABN.com"? If I had known that, I would have proposed an auction on E-bay!!! The webmaster would have been elated!!! 

But, then, one wonders why the trustee opted for a private sale vs an auction? That is a far more interesting question...and just how many lawyers will be at the feeding trough for the measely $5,000 she was offered?

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

I'm relieved this was just a mistake, Gailon.  So, Mrs. Joy and I are okay now? 

Is this document something that you will have to repair so there aren't judicial repercussions?

Any possibility we can get an explanation for your statement about Linda not supporting the cause?

Mrs Joy is now livid!!! But not with you...sometimes you cannot win for losing. C'est la vie!!!

I am sorry to see your sources have failed you. Believe me, I understand the frustration. Run into it all the time. Don't we, Bob???

As to the The Linda Mystery, it is simple enough...she had been asked to do some research and get the information back to us and it was not forth-coming, not to mention she seemed to be non-responsive to communication efforts. Following my post, I did speak with her and discovered she had completed the research and had given the package to another to deliver...it has now gone into a bottomless pit that seems to be an ever increasing problem for us. It will be available in time. Just a matter of how much effort it will take to get it out. Again, C'est la vie!!!

It is that simple!!!  Satisfied??? I would think not, but the rest will be speculative fun!!!

Oh, yeah...the other news...the accountant for DLS, D&L and DLS Publishing seems to have misplaced the 2004 tax returns, I am told. Any speculation why?

Gailon Arthur Joy

=======

Quote formatting problem corrected. - Daryl

[Snoopy]

Thank you for the explanation as to Linda's alleged lack of support, Gailon.  Hopefully we can now put that to rest!!

I believe I have a fairly good idea as to whom Mrs. Joy's ire is now directed!!  She must be a real trooper to put up with all of this!!

And aren't accountants supposed to be organized?  How could they "misplace" a tax return, especially if they filed it?  No back-up tapes?  If they really wanted to, couldn't the accountant request the returns from the IRS?  Any remote chance this is the same accountant used by 3ABN?

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Thank you for the explanation as to Linda's alleged lack of support, Gailon.  Hopefully we can now put that to rest!!

I believe I have a fairly good idea as to whom Mrs. Joy's ire is now directed!!  She must be a real trooper to put up with all of this!!

And aren't accountants supposed to be organized?  How could they "misplace" a tax return, especially if they filed it?  No back-up tapes?  If they really wanted to, couldn't the accountant request the returns from the IRS?  Any remote chance this is the same accountant used by 3ABN?

How astute...yes,  the accountant is the one and the same. We have an issue here. Judge Saylor penned a decision that was upheld by the First Circuit Court of appeals clarifying that Accountants do not have privilege in the Federal Court system. After we finish in Minnesotta and deal with the 3ABN Motion for Protective Order in Massachusetts we have to turn our attention back to Illinois.  Yet another front that needs a little subpoena enforcement motion. And don't forget Michigan.

ANd on and on as we move to build our case against 3ABN and Danny Lee Shelton!!! We move steadilly but assuredly forward as we prepare for a trial on the merits!!!

Time and fortitude and the evidence will all come together with a clear picture...add a little testimony from actual witnesses and we will get our Jury Verdict.

Gailon Arthur Joy

[J.R. Layman]

Snoppy

RE:"Has Gailon lied and (or) committed perjury in his Bankruptcy case???"


FWIW......whatever Gailons personal issues are, has NOTHING to do with the issue of Danny and Linda, and the pictillows  of financial aberrant behavior at 3SABN. 

Wither one likes or dislikes Gailon, wither one believes or disbelieves his story about Linda/Danny and 3ABN......his personal life, financial issues and relationships with his family has NOTHING to do with the issues at hand....  An attack such as seen above on Gailon is simply an Ad Homenion attack.....since those who appear to attack him can't demonstrate any real response the FACTS about 3ABN  he's presented!

[Doodle]

Next time I need a stay from creditors, I shall send it to you to do...maybe, just maybe, it would get done correctly. Beyond that, you will have to take up your issues with counsel.
I can assure you, that the means test was not a problem by that time. But speculate as you will. It will get you virtually no-where.

Given the direction of financial markets, it will be some time before it would be an issue. But, then again, who would believe we had any value in "Save3ABN.com"? If I had known that, I would have proposed an auction on E-bay!!! The webmaster would have been elated!!! 

But, then, one wonders why the trustee opted for a private sale vs an auction? That is a far more interesting question...and just how many lawyers will be at the feeding trough for the measely $5,000 she was offered?

Gailon Arthur Joy

I'm sorry but I have no idea what this has to do with the previous posts, the issue being discussed, or what you even mean.

And although it is a reply, it seems unresponsive to me.

If I were involved I would be requesting permission from the court to examine you and all your claims, and (or) to depose you, as that would seem to me to be the next logical steps.

Beyond that I refuse to speculate, or surmise.

Just a Doodle

edit reason: added further explanation to above post.

[Doodle]

After we finish in Minnesotta and deal with the 3ABN Motion for Protective Order in Massachusetts we have to turn our attention back to Illinois.  Yet another front that needs a little subpoena enforcement motion. And don't forget Michigan.

ANd on and on as we move to build our case against 3ABN and Danny Lee Shelton!!! We move steadilly but assuredly forward as we prepare for a trial on the merits!!!

Time and fortitude and the evidence will all come together with a clear picture...add a little testimony from actual witnesses and we will get our Jury Verdict.

Gailon Arthur Joy

 


May I quote from another document quoted on BSDA, one filed in answer to Bob Pickle's document, which was quoted both here, and there?

"Plaintiff is not a criminal defendant, Defendant is not a governmental actor"

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=20348&view=findpost&p=238869

Just a Doodle

[Bob Pickle]

Oh, yeah...the other news...the accountant for DLS, D&L and DLS Publishing seems to have misplaced the 2004 tax returns, I am told. Any speculation why?

If you're talking about misplacing Linda's tax return for 2004, they didn't do that one. If you're talking about misplacing DLS and DLS Publishing's returns, I doubt they've misplaced those.

Am I incorrect?