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[Bob Pickle]

2. The personal info on those loan papers are neither your's nor the public's business, and to post them would be a violation of privacy. So even if I had them, which I don't, I would NEVER post them or give them to you.

Then don't bring it up. Entirely refrain from making easily documented assertions that you refuse to document.

Bob,

 Allow me to be perfectly clear.

I did not bring up the loan agreement or the payment history documents. I don't even consider them necessary. You brought them up, you wanted them posted and made public. Not me.

False. You brought them up, not me.

Here is what I brought up.

""Might want to ask" Sister (or if it's really your business and you want the real facts, ask the real cousin) how a car she claims was"bought" for the cousin had to be sold to pay off the loan when she and her mother couldn't make the payments, or how that qualifies as "hush money"

See? You brought up the alleged payment history for that car, and you used that alleged payment history to make Sister out to be a liar.

So here is your chance to prove your point. But instead of producing the documents to prove your point, you claim it to be a breach of privacy to do so. If you are unwilling to prove your point when it can be easily done, then DON't MAKE THE POINT.

The girl herself could tell you that the car wasn't bought for her and that it had to be sold to pay off the loan.

Super. I assume that based on your statement, you have talked with her? And thus you have her contact info? Please email or PM it to me, and I will be happy to contact her.

See this is a real problem, and not just in this topic but in almost every one you bring up. An innocent is publicly sacrificed in your BONFIRE OF THE VANITIES. There are a bunch of you making accusations here about a innocent girl that you don't even know, gossiping about her, and tarnishing her reputation, a girl who you haven't even consulted about this or asked for her version of events.

Danny Shelton is not an innocent girl. And if he victimized someone, that doesn't put that someone in a bad light, in my opinion.

[Bob Pickle]

More than once in recent months I have been asked why there is never any attack on the message spread to the world by 3ABN - and they answer their own rhetorical question by pointing to the truth of the message being beamed around the world from 3ABN.

3ABN's proclamation that Danny is the Lord's anointed, and that he cannot be corrected by any human being on earth, is rank heresy. Perhaps it might even be called blasphemy. It certainly isn't Seventh-day Adventism.

[anyman]

Anyman - 3ABN is not God.  Danny Shelton is not God.

I am going to make an assumption here, and please feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but my guess is your efforts in attacking a straw man are in regards to the words emphasized below:

Ian, in today's perverse society, accusations of sexual impropriety are usually quicker to gain traction than the more mundane financial accusations that Gailon and Robert have tossed around. Since the financial accusations have not been able to convince anyone to this point - even the IRS - the attackers of God must focus on accusations that are bound to get more people riled up. Robert has focused the majority of his efforts on the issues that revolve around Tommy Shelton and the, evidently manufactured, issues of sexual misconduct he has tried to pin on Danny Shelton.

Though it shouldn't be necessary, as there is not a person here in defense of 3ABN or Mr. Shelton who considers either one to be "God", I will explain the obvious. The phrase you are winnowing out of my entire comment is not a reference, either on its face or through insinuation, that I consider either one to be "God." I contend, and my many postings make it abundantly clear, that GAJ/RP, Inc. are attacking God's work, His message, and His people. My phrase is a generalized term, and yes the work that 3ABN and Danny Shelton have and are doing is the work of God. If you attack the church and its many supporting ministries you attack God (and yes, there is occasion when change needs to be made, but attacking the work as GAJ/RP, Inc. have, is not needed ever). If you attempt to replace the Word of God with your own demagoguery (ala GAJ/RP, Inc.) you are attacking God. If you attempt to set up your own judgments in the place of those of God (again, ala GAJ/RP, Inc.), you are attacking God.

So your straw man being dealt with, I stand by my earlier post, as well as this one.

anyman

[Bob Pickle]

anyman, I respectfully request you to not blaspheme on this forum. Concern over child molestation, unbiblical divorce, private inurement, and lying is not attacking God's work or message or people.

In fact, to attack those who have such concerns is to attack God's work and message.

The first angel's message calls all to return to obedience and repentance to all of God's commandments, whether it be the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 7th, 8th, 9th, or 10th. But there are those whose hearts are in rebellion to that message, and who oppose those who uplift the law of God.

[anyman]

Robert, you and your endless parade of straw men . . .

The phrase "Lord's anointed" or similar ones "anointed of the Lord" or "anointed by the Lord" do not convey the implicit idea that someone is some how being equated with God. That is a ridiculous argument.

The phrase "Lord's anointed" is defined as: "To choose by or as if by divine intervention." (FN1) The Bible is filled with this concept. The disciples were the Lord's anointed, as was David, Samuel, and Esther. God chose each of these individuals to do a very important part of His work here on earth.

Let's look at a few references:

Leviticus 6:22: And the priest of his sons that is anointed in his stead shall offer it: it is a statute for ever unto the LORD; it shall be wholly burnt.

1 Samuel 16:6: And it came to pass, when they were come, that he looked on Eliab, and said, Surely the LORD's anointed is before him. KJV

1 Samuel 24:6: And he said unto his men, The LORD forbid that I should do this thing unto my master, the LORD's anointed, to stretch forth mine hand against him, seeing he is the anointed of the LORD.

2 Kings 9:6: And he arose, and went into the house; and he poured the oil on his head, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I have anointed thee king over the people of the LORD, even over Israel.

2 Chronicles 6:42: O LORD God, turn not away the face of thine anointed: remember the mercies of David thy servant.

Psalms 2:2: The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

Isaiah 61:1: The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

Luke 4:18: The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

That should be enough to put this absurd train of argument to rest. The phrase has been widely used through out recorded history and does not mean, when used, that someone is being equated to God. Was Danny anointed by God to establish and build a television network to spread the true message of the Lord? History evidences that as truth. The results of 3ABN's broadcasts evidences that as truth. God chose Danny to do this work, just as he chose my local Pastor to do his, just as He has done through out the ages when He has needed someone to complete His work on earth. By your logic, all those Biblical workers for God who referred to themselves or others as "anointed" are as guilty of blasphemy.

anyman

FN1: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Lord's+anointed

More than once in recent months I have been asked why there is never any attack on the message spread to the world by 3ABN - and they answer their own rhetorical question by pointing to the truth of the message being beamed around the world from 3ABN.

3ABN's proclamation that Danny is the Lord's anointed, and that he cannot be corrected by any human being on earth, is rank heresy. Perhaps it might even be called blasphemy. It certainly isn't Seventh-day Adventism.

[anyman]

I respectfully request that you cease your blasphemy on this forum. Additionally, I request that you cease your demagoguery on this forum. The first angel makes that call to the true Commandments of God, the true lifestyle of God and not to the Church of Robert. You do not hold the papal scepter of truth for God's people. The process of conversion is an individual one that happens between each human and God. You do not hold the magic formula of judgment whereby you alone can determine the spiritual lives another. I know you think you do, but the truth is you do not. You need to stop judging others by your human interpretations and focus on what we all need to - a growing personal relationship with God that brings us to knees of humility and gratitude.

anyman

anyman, I respectfully request you to not blaspheme on this forum. Concern over child molestation, unbiblical divorce, private inurement, and lying is not attacking God's work or message or people.

In fact, to attack those who have such concerns is to attack God's work and message.

The first angel's message calls all to return to obedience and repentance to all of God's commandments, whether it be the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 7th, 8th, 9th, or 10th. But there are those whose hearts are in rebellion to that message, and who oppose those who uplift the law of God.

[Cindy]

Anyman - 3ABN is not God.  Danny Shelton is not God.

I am going to make an assumption here, and please feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but my guess is your efforts in attacking a straw man are in regards to the words emphasized below:

Ian, in today's perverse society, accusations of sexual impropriety are usually quicker to gain traction than the more mundane financial accusations that Gailon and Robert have tossed around. Since the financial accusations have not been able to convince anyone to this point - even the IRS - the attackers of God must focus on accusations that are bound to get more people riled up. Robert has focused the majority of his efforts on the issues that revolve around Tommy Shelton and the, evidently manufactured, issues of sexual misconduct he has tried to pin on Danny Shelton.

Though it shouldn't be necessary, as there is not a person here in defense of 3ABN or Mr. Shelton who considers either one to be "God", I will explain the obvious. The phrase you are winnowing out of my entire comment is not a reference, either on its face or through insinuation, that I consider either one to be "God." I contend, and my many postings make it abundantly clear, that GAJ/RP, Inc. are attacking God's work, His message, and His people. My phrase is a generalized term, and yes the work that 3ABN and Danny Shelton have and are doing is the work of God. If you attack the church and its many supporting ministries you attack God (and yes, there is occasion when change needs to be made, but attacking the work as GAJ/RP, Inc. have, is not needed ever). If you attempt to replace the Word of God with your own demagoguery (ala GAJ/RP, Inc.) you are attacking God. If you attempt to set up your own judgments in the place of those of God (again, ala GAJ/RP, Inc.), you are attacking God.

So your straw man being dealt with, I stand by my earlier post, as well as this one.

anyman

Agreed. I don't know of any one who has defended either DS or 3abn here who view them as God either. That repetitive accusation is old and tired...

That being said. I still think it would best for us all to remember that we are very accountable for how we treat others and what we do unto others because God takes it all very personally, thus an attack on an individual may actually qualify as an attack of God.

 Certainly the end never justifies the means, and I have seen that reasoning used here in these issues quite a bit... (such as in the latest post by Bob above where his need to accuse DS justifies his, Sister's and CRYSTAL's, and other's here abuse of DS's young cousin.)


..ian




"And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it TO ME..... Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it TO ME'"

[Bob Pickle]

Robert, you and your endless parade of straw men . . .

Why did you ignore the valid point I made? In Seventh-day Adventism, we don't elevate any human being above all human correction, not even Danny Shelton. Such nonsense is rank heresy.

[Bob Pickle]

I respectfully request that you cease your blasphemy on this forum. Additionally, I request that you cease your demagoguery on this forum.

Again, why did you ignore the valid point I made?

[Bob Pickle]

That being said. I still think it would best for us all to remember that we are very accountable for how we treat others and what we do unto others because God takes it all very personally, thus an attack on an individual may actually qualify as an attack of God.

Well said. Thus, one day, if Danny and Riva and Duffy refuse to make things right, Jesus may tell them, "I was concerned about the child molestation allegations against Tommy Shelton, and you threatened me with lawsuits and the destruction of My reputation."

[anyman]

Robert, you and your endless parade of straw men . . .

Why did you ignore the valid point I made? In Seventh-day Adventism, we don't elevate any human being above all human correction, not even Danny Shelton. Such nonsense is rank heresy.

Let’s use the words from your web site Robert. I am going to use two cherry-picked quotes that are found on save-3abn.com to deal with your second straw man.

"It's Wrong to Disagree with Danny"
"The Israelites had to acknowledge that God had chosen Moses to lead them. I want to stop and say that we may not always agree with who God chooses, but when God chooses someone, disagreeing with that one can brings on us adversity, discouragement, and the loss of our vision." (John Lomacang)

and

"God Warns, 'No Church Discipline, No Court Case, No Investigation Against Danny' "
"And then other thing, there's a promise that God has for us, and there's a warning that God has for others. He says, 'Touch not the Lord's anointed, and do my prophet no harm. Now when we look at the men in the Bible that were prophets, not a one of them were faultless, not a one of them without, were out mistakes and sin in their lives. But God says, 'When I anoint a man, when I anoint a woman, it's my job to straighten them out.' Anyone who takes that job is stepping on God's territory, and God will deal with those who try to usurp the thing that belongs only to Him." (John Lomacang)

(both quotes copied and pasted as they exist today, 03/09/2009 on save-3abn.com)

There is a tremendous difference between human correction and judgment. Correction is defined as “The act or process of correcting.” (FN1) and judgment as “1. The act or process of judging”(FN2) and judging as Bible To govern; rule.(FN3) Are we to believe, Robert, that you have set yourself up to govern the Seventh-day Adventist Church and its members? Has God provided you insight beyond all man that would qualify you to rule over the “appropriateness” of all Christians in the faith? Your claims would appear to evidence that you do entertain these ideas. You have evidence "judgment" in your actions, as opposed to "human correction." You have adjudged 3ABN of sins and crimes, adjudged Danny Shelton, members of 3ABN leadership, ministers associated with 3ABN, the church because it has not done what you think it should, all to be outside the Truth of God. Romans 14:13 KJV: "Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way." How many have stumbled as a result of your actions, Robert?

Even when the above quotes are taken in context, they do not evidence anyone at 3ABN claiming that Danny Shelton is above reproof. No man is. As any Christian must admit, all judgment is God’s. Man does not have the right to judge, as only God knows the heart. What did happen to those who chose to question God and his choice of Moses as the leader of His movement for that time? It would very difficult for you to defend against a claim that you, at best, tangentially followed the directions of God, through Matthew, when in Chapter 18 (FN4) he defined how those with God in their hearts approach a fellow believer they fear has fallen into sin. Never did God indicate that one brother should “go public” against another. One might note, too, that the verses do not apply to one “getting his own way” in the process of attempting to recover a soul for God. As evidenced in your litigation techniques, as well as your approach in the ASI hearings, much of this has been about, “getting your own way” and “having the last word.” Neither of those conditions of the heart is evidenced in Scripture as a way to make the faith and the faithful whole.

The second quote above makes clear that the work of God in the life of those He chooses is to help them, guide them, and reprove them. Far too often well meaning Christians do not trust God to do what He has said He would. They feel they must do the work of the Holy Spirit. They believe they must point out sin and wrong and “force” compliance of the faith on those who stray from the path. That is not the way God has ordained the work. The work of the Spirit is the work of conviction. That is not your work to do. You can not force the believers into the mold you ordain as most appropriate for the faithful – and this you have attempted time and again.

The first quote raises an interesting question. Is the place you find yourself, the result of your attacks on the work of God? You may not agree with God’s choice of Danny Shelton to raise up 3ABN and you may not agree with God’s choice of 3ABN to be instrumental in bringing the message to the dark corners of the world, but, because they were raised up by Him, the Bible indicates it is not your place to try and bring them down, it is not your work to bring revival, especially in the way you have attempted. Your focus in not on God’s hand in the happenings of 3ABN, it is on human controls. You desire to control 3ABN and use your attacks on the leaders of 3ABN to achieve your goal.

No one at 3ABN has ever stated, “Danny is above human correction.” It is evident that Danny does not believe this as he has counseled with many church leaders in regards to the GAJ/RP, Inc. accusations. We are not privy to these conversations, nor should you expect to be, Robert. You have adopted an “I need to know everything” attitude, and God does not support this. You can continue to make these straw man arguments – but they will blow away in the wind of reason as they can not stand honest evaluation.

Let God do His work, Christ do His, and the Holy Spirit do His. Yours is to lead others humbly to the foot of the cross and nothing more.

anyman

(FN1) http://www.thefreedictionary.com/correction
(FN2) http://www.thefreedictionary.com/judgment
(FN3) http://www.thefreedictionary.com/judging
(FN4)  15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
 16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
 17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. (KJV)

[Mary Sue Smith]

Junebug!

Well, well,well!  Those parts are not what was being discussed.  I encourage everyone to read the whole thing!  

Hey, Junebug, why is it being sent to Hillman?  He refused to rule because it should be heard by Hillman.  I agree.  

Why did you not enter what ALL the judge said?  He is on to what is going on.  Anyone reading the document will see!  

However, thank you for revealing your chopped up counterfeit view!

The judge knew what was happening and knew what he was going to do.  Bob had no clue and wanted to make comments.  However, when the judge saw what was in the wind he put a stop to the 3ABN group!  Yes, it is a must read!  Be sure to read it all, not just the counterfeits choice.

Frannie, open your eyes. I wasn't trying to offer a "chopped up counterfeit view." Man, I just copied straight from the source. Anyone can see it is no counterfeit. If I was to copy the whole thing it would take up a huge amount of room and I'm quite sure AT wouldn't be too happy since the link was provided and ANYONE can go read it for themselves. So I only copied the last part. 

My point was that Pickle thought it was "funny" and so I copied the part I thought was humerous. And no, court records ARE official court records and HAVE to be accurate. Don't try to tell me Pickle that this wasn't you saying these things with your name right there--I wasn't born yesterday. 

Well, Frannie, I happen to agree with the Judge too. He should have referred it back to Judge Hillman because yes, as Attorney Simpson said, he was the one that knows what is going on. I have absolutely no problem with that. It was a wonderful victory for Attorney Simpson.  Anyone with any sense of fairness can see this.  Nice try though....

[tinka]

I think it would be pretty easy with the right connections, places attended to get some ones DNA. They would have to stop eating,drinking, stop hygiene, wear gloves, let their fingernails grow or etc, etc. So with that in mind when you see paranoia of accidentally letting out your DNA---would'nt that be    There is even a way simplier then the above mentioned!! It would be so easy.  (to see who is lying of course and clear this up)  After all, there was not a reason for anyone to come down on DS if all visions of evil were not in view. That is what is so amazing that the sympathizers cannot understand. There was no earthly reason for anyone to pick on poor DS if he did not do anything wrong!!!!  They do it all the time to get the answers. I think I might even be able to connect you up with the DNA lab.

[Bob Pickle]

Robert, you and your endless parade of straw men . . .

Why did you ignore the valid point I made? In Seventh-day Adventism, we don't elevate any human being above all human correction, not even Danny Shelton. Such nonsense is rank heresy.

Let’s use the words from your web site Robert. I am going to use two cherry-picked quotes that are found on save-3abn.com to deal with your second straw man.

Thank you for quoting where John Lomacang indicated that it was wrong to disagree with Danny, and that God alone can correct Danny.

But I do not appreciate your bearing false witness against me. I have not criticized the church, and I am not attacking the work of God.

[Bob Pickle]

My point was that Pickle thought it was "funny" and so I copied the part I thought was humerous. And no, court records ARE official court records and HAVE to be accurate. Don't try to tell me Pickle that this wasn't you saying these things with your name right there--I wasn't born yesterday.

Be willfully ignorant if you want, Junebug, like Lee who said that maybe the minor was consenting, the Lee who professes to be a conservative Adventist.

I suppose, then that you maintain that Greg Simpson said the following, since the transcript says he did?

MR. SIMPSON: Yes, Your Honor, he is the face of Adventism of 3ABN.

THE COURT: The what?

MR. SIMPSON: He is considered to be the face of Adventism, Seventh-Day Adventism, on Three Angels Broadcasting Network. Three Angels Broadcasting Network is the conservative broadcaster of the unique message to the Seventh-Day Adventist Church, and he's been the founder. He is a constant programmer, interviewer, and has been the resident of 3ABN since its inception back in the 1980s.

THE COURT: So he probably is -- I know right where it is. I used to live in Marion, but --

MR. SIMPSON: They were such a big public figures they were concerned enough to move their divorce to Guam.

THE COURT: But it's going to make a difference, obviously, down the road if he is considered a public figure or not for defamation purposes.

MR. SIMPSON: I understand that.

(http://www.3abnvjoy.com/ilsd-08mc00016/ilsd-08mc00016-doc-29.pdf)

So I even refer to a place where clearly the speaker was wrongly attributed, and you still maintain otherwise. Why, Junebug? Why are you that extremely biased?

Incidentally, if the court reporter thought the above speaker was Simpson when it was really Joy, then the speaker before "Simpson" which was labeled "Joy" must not be Joy. That speaker that spoke about the 1998 house deal and such was me.

So I got labeled Joy, and then Joy got labeled Simpson on pp. 13-15. That's why in a telephone hearing it is absolutely essential that you identify yourself before you speak.