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[CRYSTAL]

"No affidavit"?  Cindy, it's going to be helpful if you did some research...

[Cindy]

Cindy, did you just lie? "no complaints which have been made to 3abn"?

Instant replay:
"no complaints which have been made to 3abn, or the police, or his church from any so called victim" ( the context being sexual abuse or molestation)

Are you saying there are Bob? Then put your money where your mouth is for once and answer the question in an honest forthright manner, and prove it!

We'll be waiting..

laters

[Cindy]

"No affidavit"?  Cindy, it's going to be helpful if you did some research...

Yes Crystal, no affidavits that I am aware of filed against Danny Shelton by any alleged victims. So, at the risk of sounding sarcastic let me remind you that it is impossible to prove a negative, and the burden of proof is on the one making the claims, and accusations.

That would be you sweetie, NOT me. 

[Sister]

Ian, have you forgotten the allegations that Linda Shelton's daughter made against Danny Shleton?

[Cindy]

ADMIN HAT ON

Ian, you need to watch yourself.  I don't have time to follow you around and edit all of your inappropriate posts!!

ADMIN HAT OFF

Ian, have you forgotten the allegations that Linda Shelton's daughter made against Danny Shleton?

No, nor have I forgotten that they weren't made to the police, his church or 3abn, and that when the chairman of the 3abn board wanted to talk to her about it, so they could investigate it they were prevented from doing so, as you were all against that plan, Your modus operandi being go tell it to others and cause them to believe evil with you, rather than taking it to those who can actually do something about it..




Edited to remove inappropriate content

[Bob Pickle]

Cindy, did you just lie? "no complaints which have been made to 3abn"?

Instant replay:
"no complaints which have been made to 3abn, or the police, or his church from any so called victim" ( the context being sexual abuse or molestation)

Are you saying there are Bob? Then put your money where your mouth is for once and answer the question in an honest forthright manner, and prove it!

We'll be waiting..

laters

Aah! I see I misread your post!

But perhaps your post is in essence saying, "There were no complaints filed by Richard Nixon with Santa Claus." You have unrealistically narrowed down the question.

I personally spoke with Elder Denslow about Danny Shelton's global trashing of Alyssa on August 10, 2006. I complained. So you can't say no one complained over the issue.

And Elder Denslow was already familiar with Alyssa's statement before I spoke with him.

[Bob Pickle]

No, nor have I forgotten that they weren't made to the police, his church or 3abn, and that when the chairman of the 3abn board wanted to talk to her about it, so they could investigate it they were prevented from doing so, as you were all against that plan, Your modus operandi being go tell it to others and cause them to believe evil with you, rather than taking it to those who can actually do something about it..

And why would you be surprised that she wouldn't want to talk with the unethical, dishonest Walt Thompson? A man who claims he did an adequate investigation into the child molestation allegations against Tommy Shelton, and yet never spoke with a single alleged victim or their family members, even when invited to do so?

He can prove that he has turned over a new leaf and is now interested in doing thorough, honest investigations by calling up Duane and Roger Clem, and Brad Dunning, and talking to them. If he needs a number, he can call me.

[Johann]

It is obvious that you are not a prime witness, or you would not have made this statement, Ian.

It so happened that a prominent leader in the General Conference of the Seventh-day Adventist Church phoned me on behalf of the Chairman of the Board of 3ABN, stating that the accusation of Linda's daughter was very serious if it was true. He presented to me the suggestion of 3ABN to question the girl to find out if her allegations really happened the way she had presented it in her written report.

We discussed  it back and forth. It appeared to me that the way the girl was supposed to be questioned would not assure her neutrality. We came to the conclusion that since the girl had signed her written statement before a notary public, and that she had mailed it to a Conference President, no other discussion should be necessary. I was told her statement was sent on to the President of the Illinois Conference. What else happened, I do not know.  Neither do I know that anyone one else was asked about questioning Linda's daughter, nor do I know that anyone asked her about it.

A counselor told me it would have been a cruel method of treating the girl if she had to go through the questioning as 3ABN suggested. Is this what you wanted?

Ian, have you forgotten the allegations that Linda Shelton's daughter made against Danny Shleton?

No, nor have I forgotten that they weren't made to the police, his church or 3abn, and that when the chairman of the 3abn board wanted to talk to her about it, so they could investigate it they were prevented from doing so, as you were all against that plan, Your modus operandi being go tell it to others and cause them to believe evil with you, rather than taking it to those who can actually do something about it..

Edited to remove inappropriate content from quoted post.

[GrandmaNettie]

Ian, have you forgotten the allegations that Linda Shelton's daughter made against Danny Shleton?

To aid in the precision of this discussion I am posting the American Heritage Dictionary definitions for the following:

affidavit

NOUN:

A written declaration made under oath before a notary public or other authorized officer.

allegation
NOUN:

Something alleged; an assertion: allegations of disloyalty.
The act of alleging.
A statement asserting something without proof: The newspaper's charges of official wrongdoing were mere allegations.
Law An assertion made by a party that must be proved or supported with evidence.

[Johann]

Ian, have you forgotten the allegations that Linda Shelton's daughter made against Danny Shleton?

To aid in the precision of this discussion I am posting the American Heritage Dictionary definitions for the following:

affidavit

NOUN:

A written declaration made under oath before a notary public or other authorized officer.

allegation
NOUN:

Something alleged; an assertion: allegations of disloyalty.
The act of alleging.
A statement asserting something without proof: The newspaper's charges of official wrongdoing were mere allegations.
Law An assertion made by a party that must be proved or supported with evidence.

Thank you, Grandma Nettie! That makes the statement by Linda's daughter an affidavit, and it should not have been necessary to question it any further.

[Bob Pickle]

Hey, Bob, what judge was it that saw through them like the glass wall they were? He summed it up just beautifully, much to their chagrin, and they dismissed the very next day!!!

The Honorable Magistrate Judge Philip Frazier.

And I don't know how much money you guys, Mr. Joy and Mr. Pickle -- my goodness, you know, somebody is helping you out with this financially because, you know, this is, I mean this is like David and Goliath only David doesn't even have a rock for his sling in terms of fighting this thing out.

You know, I kind of think Three Angels probably should have thought this through a little bit. My guess is that Three Angels probably thought that these guys had probably backed down pretty quick when this defamation lawsuit was filed. And that I understand that organizations like Three Angels operate a lot of their fiscal viability -- not physical, Jane. It's fiscal, F-I-S-C-A-L -- depends upon regular contributions from people who are frequent listeners and watchers, and these kinds of little nasty bits such as of the revelation involving Mr. Shelton's brother tend to or any impropriety on behalf of Mr. Shelton himself would probably tend to erode some of those. And so a nice public way of refuting those statements is by filing a defamation action, and, you know, saying it ain't so, Joe.

But the problem is, is now Three Angels has opened up a very large can of worms here. And it's a very large can of worms. And there are a lot of different ways that financial impropriety could be disguised by clever bookkeeping. There are a lot of -- I'm not saying that that's happened here. Don't anybody get all flustered. I'm just saying that, you know, at this stage of the proceedings, we have to presume that anything is possible. Anything is provable. And there are a number of other transactions, changes in accounting methods, any number of these that might be relevant to prove that on a particular day that something happened.

THE COURT: Let me ask you a question here. Would it be relevant or at least interesting to you if you were on the other side of this case, Mr. Simpson, if it turns out that the documents that the accountant has are different from the documents that actually exist or maintained by Three Angels Broadcasting, that perhaps if Three Angels Broadcasting was selective about the documents they turn over to their accountants?

MR. SIMPSON: If it related -- well, how is that -- I would certainly want the information for the reasons that you said. I'd be hoping that there was some discrepancies, in particular, that I didn't know about. I would like to find some more ammunition to justify the wholesale assault on 3ABN that we've seen. That would make it -- it doesn't make it relevant to the issues of -- that the defamatory statements that they have made, they have something in mind. They had some information about certain transactions, and he's told you about some of them. And they're entitled to discovery on those issues, but they're not entitled to get every scrap of paper to see if there's something else they are looking for.

THE COURT: Mr. Shelton, though -- here's the problem. Mr. Shelton is not some disgruntled clerk who is stealing out of the small, you know, cubby that may be relegated to a particular file clerk or something. You know, Mr. Shelton has access to the whole piggy bank. And I'm not saying, obviously, that he is or was doing anything, but what I'm saying is that if a person who has access to everything were to be using it for private gain, then it is not unreasonable to believe that perhaps other instances might exist where the corporate entity was used improperly for private gain, and that would tend to, even if it had nothing to do.

Let's just say for argument sake that further investigation into this were to disclose that on a different date in a different year that Mr. Shelton stole a hundred thousand dollars from Three Angels Broadcasting using a completely different means than -- that would be relevant to the defamation action now, wouldn't it?

MR. SIMPSON: Let me say first there's been no allegation that anything --

THE COURT: No. No. No. No. You don't need to go into. We don't need a spin on this. I'm just saying and I would have no idea. Hopefully, it doesn't exist, but if it did, wouldn't that be some relevant information to put out in front of a fact finder at a trial?

[Habanero]

Because no affidavits have ever been filed against him and there are no complaints which have been made to 3abn, or the police, or his church from any so called victim. If there were, you would all have posted them long since, right?  The truth is so easy to prove with facts and evidence, isn't it? Liars always have a disadvantage in that area.

..and btw one of the 10 commandments says "thou shalt not bear false witness."

..ian

An affidavit was sworn out and sent to the church from a victim.

[Johann]

Because no affidavits have ever been filed against him and there are no complaints which have been made to 3abn, or the police, or his church from any so called victim. If there were, you would all have posted them long since, right?  The truth is so easy to prove with facts and evidence, isn't it? Liars always have a disadvantage in that area.

..and btw one of the 10 commandments says "thou shalt not bear false witness."

..ian

An affidavit was sworn out and sent to the church from a victim.

So who is telling the truth?

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Ian, have you forgotten the allegations that Linda Shelton's daughter made against Danny Shleton?

To aid in the precision of this discussion I am posting the American Heritage Dictionary definitions for the following:

affidavit

NOUN:

A written declaration made under oath before a notary public or other authorized officer.

allegation
NOUN:

Something alleged; an assertion: allegations of disloyalty.
The act of alleging.
A statement asserting something without proof: The newspaper's charges of official wrongdoing were mere allegations.
Law An assertion made by a party that must be proved or supported with evidence.

Thank you, Grandma Nettie! That makes the statement by Linda's daughter an affidavit, and it should not have been necessary to question it any further.

In fact, we produced a Notarized version...didn't they share that with you, Ian??? And why not???

Did I not mention the signed seven page "statement" by Melody Shelton in 2001? Why don't you call her and ask her what was in the statement? I have two people that saw that statement and can assist her memory if need be. I know of at least three others who also saw it and they did take action. Just ask Danny...yes he faced a firestorm from his own board and sacrificed a brother instead...don't you just love that Shelton family??? Any victim in a storm!!!

Ian, your problem is that you could walk right into a room with the annointed one caught red-handed and YOU WOULD NOT HAVE SEEN A THING!!!

It is a state of self induced blindness that has no cure and be aware it can lead to a permanent callousness that could benumb the normal conscience into an irreversable
coldness that would lead to the unpardonable sin. Are there others in your camp sim-
ilarly situated??? I fear there is indication there is...for the blind are known to lead the
blind.

By the way, Grandma, good to hear from your precise self!!! Always so helpful!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

[Cindy]

It is obvious that you are not a prime witness, or you would not have made this statement, Ian.

It so happened that a prominent leader in the General Conference of the Seventh-day Adventist Church phoned me on behalf of the Chairman of the Board of 3ABN, stating that the accusation of Linda's daughter was very serious if it was true. He presented to me the suggestion of 3ABN to question the girl to find out if her allegations really happened the way she had presented it in her written report.

We discussed  it back and forth. It appeared to me that the way the girl was supposed to be questioned would not assure her neutrality. We came to the conclusion that since the girl had signed her written statement before a notary public, and that she had mailed it to a Conference President, no other discussion should be necessary. I was told her statement was sent on to the President of the Illinois Conference. What else happened, I do not know.  Neither do I know that anyone one else was asked about questioning Linda's daughter, nor do I know that anyone asked her about it.

A counselor told me it would have been a cruel method of treating the girl if she had to go through the questioning as 3ABN suggested. Is this what you wanted?

Well unfortunately Johann, alleged victims do need to be questioned in order to get anything accomplished or resolved, that is simply the way the system works... There were, and remain, too many unanswered questions.

Affidavits do need to be filed and taken under oath with the police or an authorized party, and that is not the end of a case.

( If a notarized statement is all it took, then a notarized statement from a liscensed PI about Linda and her Dr friend would resolve all for you, right?)

Reports/complaints do need to be made whether it be to the police, an employer or the individual's church, so that the allegations can be looked into, all parties questioned etc, and that does need to be done by the alleged victim unless they are a minor, which she was not.

That is if the idea is to seek justice and resolve all.

As I said, none of that was done, instead a statement was sent out to those who could do nothing, and it was publicized expressly in contradiction to her alleged wishes as she is alleged to have said she did not want to pursue it and did not want it made public. Or at least Linda said that for her... Many think Linda wrote that statement herself btw, and it seems she has told quite a few Barbara Kerr was behind it, but since it has not been properly reported those questions, along wih others will remain unanswered

BUT in direct contradiction to her "reported" wish to keep it private and not pursue it (other than to mail it out to all kinds of unrelated parties, and uninvolved conference officials) you and WB, etc then brought it up time and again on the internet and made her fodder for the masses.

Instead of letting her talk to the 3abn board who could do something, you decided that would hurt her, and it would be better to let the world talk about her....

 and what has that accomplished for her? How has that helped her? How have you put her and her well being first by doing that, or helped her?

On the other hand you have a bunch of people believing evil of DS, and yet since none of you have ever followed the proper channels to report it so that the truth can be established, there is no justice, just ugly allegations to spew and gossip about and pretend you all want to see taken care of, while actually preventing that from happening

So,I guess you have accomplished your goal, and it's alright to disregard her wishes and throw her under the bus..

So, you have reason to be proud of, and continue your work, right?


I feel bad for her and DS both, this will stay with both for a very long time...

That's all I have to say in answer to your question Johann.

..ian

Ian, have you forgotten the allegations that Linda Shelton's daughter made against Danny Shleton?

No, nor have I forgotten that they weren't made to the police, his church or 3abn, and that when the chairman of the 3abn board wanted to talk to her about it, so they could investigate it they were prevented from doing so, as you were all against that plan, Your modus operandi being go tell it to others and cause them to believe evil with you, rather than taking it to those who can actually do something about it..