Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[princessdi]

Yeah Crystal, Gurl you got something to say spit it right out there.  None of this beating about the bush.  I say what I want to say all the time.  LOL!!!

A good question might be, was your wife aware of the inordinate amount of time that was spent focusing on high school girls sports and a particular interest in one of the athletes? Was your wife aware that 3ABN employees were being utilized for this purpose?

Has any 3ABN employee asked DS why he took such a strong interest in the activities of a female high school student? Why he often treated her to dinner and took her to sporting events, without anyone else being there, not even his wife? Why he insisted on being alone with her?

[Bob Pickle]

Now if you had revealed them say 6-8 years ago assuming that is when the alleged incidents occurred then they could become more believable.

I know for a fact that these allegations are not new. I can't say they are true, but I know I heard of them awhile back.

[Artiste]

I heard of them awhile back, too.

[CRYSTAL]

The 'guest' observers on here know who they are and they know exactly what is being referred to. Advent talk isn't a court room where people are under oath, so I don't need to name any names or provide any juicy details. All that needs to be known is that the co-founder of 3ABN has a problem in his attraction for very young females. His defenders know this too. They just hope it goes away because they know that it could bring him down, permanently. They also know that if they confront him on it, he will fire them...

[GRAT]

How young does he seem to like them?  Are there two little girls that are in danger?

[Bob Pickle]

The 'guest' observers on here know who they are and they know exactly what is being referred to. Advent talk isn't a court room where people are under oath, so I don't need to name any names or provide any juicy details. All that needs to be known is that the co-founder of 3ABN has a problem in his attraction for very young females. His defenders know this too. They just hope it goes away because they know that it could bring him down, permanently. They also know that if they confront him on it, he will fire them...

So would any of these ladies be willing to affirm these allegations?

[princessdi]

So you actually wrote this to get the attention of "guest observer", not even members?   Girl, see I thought you really knew something.  You just talkin'.  Next!

The 'guest' observers on here know who they are and they know exactly what is being referred to. Advent talk isn't a court room where people are under oath, so I don't need to name any names or provide any juicy details. All that needs to be known is that the co-founder of 3ABN has a problem in his attraction for very young females. His defenders know this too. They just hope it goes away because they know that it could bring him down, permanently. They also know that if they confront him on it, he will fire them...

[Johann]

Ain't you talking too, girl? Let's be thankful for the gift of  tongues, especially when we use it for edification.

So you actually wrote this to get the attention of "guest observer", not even members?   Girl, see I thought you really knew something.  You just talkin'.  Next!

The 'guest' observers on here know who they are and they know exactly what is being referred to. Advent talk isn't a court room where people are under oath, so I don't need to name any names or provide any juicy details. All that needs to be known is that the co-founder of 3ABN has a problem in his attraction for very young females. His defenders know this too. They just hope it goes away because they know that it could bring him down, permanently. They also know that if they confront him on it, he will fire them...

[tinka]

If the argument about unclean meats not being sanctified by praying over them is valid, doesn't that principle appy here? Is something good just because it is SDA? Are we as vulnerable to groupthink as any other group? I'm not saying don't eat junk food at all. I'm saying how something is perceived doesn't alter what it really is.

[tinka]

If the argument about unclean meats not being sanctified by praying over them is valid, doesn't that principle appy here? Is something good just because it is SDA? Are we as vulnerable to groupthink as any other group? I'm not saying don't eat junk food at all. I'm saying how something is perceived doesn't alter what it really is.

Childoftheking
Not quite understanding. I don't think praying over unsantified unclean meat will help anything concerning good health or be blessed especially if knowing it is unclean. I must say the most difficulty I have with health message is going beyond into insepid recipes. I have a lot of difficulty going against what EGW states about deciding our own time when we think we MUST go vegan. She states that the time will become demanded and why make ourselves weak before that time. Now, I have watched what happens when churches start to demand vegan. I have seen what it has done to individuals. The fanatisim has done more harm then good. I could write on and on of the distruction I have seen what young mothers have done to their children, people have done to their selves, what it has done to a church with visitors, down to sign putting on all pot lucks, in fact a book would be more like it. It is not only premature action but very insepid.
 The time will come when we may have to discard some of the articles of diet we now use, such as milk and cream and eggs; but my message is that you must not bring yourself to a time of trouble beforehand, and thus afflict yourself with death. Wait till the Lord prepares the way before you.  {CD 206.1}
     The reforms that are strained to the highest tension might accommodate a certain class, who can obtain all they need to take the place of the things discarded; but this class forms a very small minority of the people to whom these tests seem unnecessary. There are those who try to abstain from what is declared to be harmful. They fail to supply the system with proper nourishment, and as a consequence become weak and unable to work. Thus health reform is brought to disrepute. The work we have tried to build up solidly is confused with strange things that God has not required. The energies of the church are crippled.  {CD 206.2}
     But God will interfere to prevent the results of these too-strenuous ideas. The gospel is to harmonize the sinful race. It is to bring the rich and the poor together at the feet of Jesus. . . .  {CD 206.3}
     But I wish to say that when the time comes that it is no longer safe to use milk, cream, butter, and eggs, God will reveal this. No extremes in health reform are to be advocated. The question of using milk and butter and eggs will work out its own problem. At present we have no burden on this line. Let your moderation be known unto all men.  {CD 206.4}

                                      Letter 37, 1904
     325. Last night I was in my sleep talking with Doctor -----. I said to him: You must still exercise care in regard to extremes in diet. You must not go to extremes either in your own case or in regard to the food provided
                                                                            207
for the helpers and the patients at the sanitarium. The patients pay a good price for their board, and they should have liberal fare. Some may come to the sanitarium in a condition demanding stern denial of appetite and the simplest fare, but as their health improves, they should be liberally supplied with nourishing food.
     [SANITARIUMS TO AVOID EXTREMES IN DIET.--427, 428, 429]  {CD 206.5}

         The Food Should be Made Appetizing

                                               (1867) 2T 538
     326. Health reformers, above all others, should be careful to shun extremes. The body must have sufficient nourishment. We cannot subsist upon air merely; neither can we retain health unless we have nourishing food. Food should be prepared in good order, so that it is palatable.  {CD 207.1}

                                       (1909) 9T 161-163
     327. A diet lacking in the proper elements of nutrition, brings reproach upon the cause of health reform. We are mortal, and must supply ourselves with food that will give proper nourishment to the body.  {CD 207.2}
     Some of our people, while conscientiously abstaining from eating improper foods, neglect to supply themselves with the elements necessary for the sustenance of the body. Those who take an extreme view of health reform are in danger of preparing tasteless dishes, making them so insipid that they are not satisfying. Food should be prepared in such a way that it will be appetizing as well as nourishing. It should not be robbed of that which the system needs. I use some salt, and always have, because salt, instead of being deleterious, is actually essential for the blood. Vegetables should be made palatable with a little milk or cream, or something equivalent.  {CD 207.3}
     While warnings have been given regarding the dangers of disease through butter, and the evil of the free use of eggs by small children, yet we should not consider it a violation of principle to use eggs from hens that are well cared for and suitably fed. Eggs contain properties that are remedial agencies in counteracting certain poisons.  {CD 207.4}
     Some, in abstaining from milk, eggs, and butter, have failed to supply the system with proper nourishment, and as
                                                                            208
a consequence, have become weak and unable to work. Thus health reform is brought into disrepute. The work that we have tried to build up solidly is confused with strange things that God has not required, and the energies of the church are crippled. But God will interfere to prevent the results of these too strenuous ideas. The gospel is to harmonize the sinful race. It is to bring rich and poor together at the feet of Jesus.  {CD 207.5}
     The time will come when we may have to discard some of the articles of diet we now use, such as milk and cream and eggs; but it is not necessary to bring upon ourselves perplexity by premature and extreme restrictions. Wait until the circumstances demand it, and the Lord prepares the way for it.  {CD 208.1}
(We try to say that now it is worse and demand the time ourselves. But we must be reasonable in all things. I have seen where damage and death from this is worse.)  EGW continues   

Those who would be successful in proclaiming the principles of health reform must make the word of God their guide and counselor. Only as the teachers of health reform principles do this, can they stand on vantage ground. Let us never bear a testimony against health reform by failing to use wholesome, palatable food in place of the harmful articles of diet that we have discarded. Do not in any way encourage an appetite for stimulants. Eat only plain, simple, wholesome food, and thank God constantly for the principles of health reform. In all things be true and upright, and you will gain precious victories.  {CD 208.2}

            Harmful Influence of Extremists

                                        (1870) 2T 374, 375
     328. And while we would caution you not to overeat, even of the best quality of food, we would also caution those that are extremists not to raise a false standard, and then endeavor to bring everybody to it.  {CD 208.3}

Also.. Childoftheking, Been working hard on website. I think now you can get in but still a ways to go to finish. Not everything in place yet. We also will not be putting on there about SDA affiliation yet! But traces of it will soon appear in beginning. That is being worked on this week.

[Bob Pickle]

So when might circumstances demand it?

Around 1989 or so I think I read about salmonella being in uncracked chicken eggs. Some were speculating that it was because of the feed, and others didn't think so.

It was about that time that I read in the paper about a new chicken processing plant. Feathers, beaks, and feet would go to another plant to be cooked down into chicken feed.

I think it was in 1993 that I ran across the mad cow crisis in Britain. Our media was totally silent about it, even though it was an international thing by that time. Russia had even initially refused to accept British beef as part of a food aid package, but still our media said nothing.

Eventually they identified the practice of feeding cows to cows as causing that problem.

Chicken aren't buzzards and cows aren't hogs. God didn't make them to eat that way. Human greed led to these blatant violations of the Creator's designs, and the results as far as cows go are history.

Given everything, I don't see how the circumstances aren't now, unless one either can't possibly replace animal products with other things or can secure animal products from sources that are prion and cancer free and are raised in ways that are in harmony with the Creator's designs.

[Emma]

So when might circumstances demand it?

Around 1989 or so I think I read about salmonella being in uncracked chicken eggs. Some were speculating that it was because of the feed, and others didn't think so.

It was about that time that I read in the paper about a new chicken processing plant. Feathers, beaks, and feet would go to another plant to be cooked down into chicken feed.

I think it was in 1993 that I ran across the mad cow crisis in Britain. Our media was totally silent about it, even though it was an international thing by that time. Russia had even initially refused to accept British beef as part of a food aid package, but still our media said nothing.

Eventually they identified the practice of feeding cows to cows as causing that problem.

Chicken aren't buzzards and cows aren't hogs. God didn't make them to eat that way. Human greed led to these blatant violations of the Creator's designs, and the results as far as cows go are history.

Given everything, I don't see how the circumstances aren't now, unless one either can't possibly replace animal products with other things or can secure animal products from sources that are prion and cancer free and are raised in ways that are in harmony with the Creator's designs.

I think what is appropriate in one part of the world - or even a particular country - might not be appropriate in others.  It is easy for those of us who live where there is choice and we have the finances to make the best choices.    EGW indicates that replacement foods should be readily available before urging change.  (Obviously I am not suggesting eating unclean foods and I am vegetarian though not vegan).

[Bob Pickle]

And that is why I wrote the last paragraph the way I did.

One thing Ellen White definitely advocated is that substitutes be within the reach of the poor. That's one reason why my wife wrote a cookbook in which every ingredient is available at the local grocery store. If one doesn't have to buy specialty ingredients from specialty stores, it's more within the reach of the poor.

Obviously, the average poor in America aren't poor when compared to the poor of some other countries, and so one would need to consider what is available to the poor on a country by country basis.

But then again, the poor of many countries can't afford the rich, highly refined diet of the more affluent countries, and they have less of the resulting negative health consequences that a unrefined, vegetarian diet in America will help prevent.

[princessdi]

Sorry Johann, osmething told me to elaborate on that a little more.  She is just talking to hear herself talk, or in this case read her own words.  IWO, she has no actual information, solid information, nothing significant to add to the evidence. 

Ain't you talking too, girl? Let's be thankful for the gift of  tongues, especially when we use it for edification.

So you actually wrote this to get the attention of "guest observer", not even members?   Girl, see I thought you really knew something.  You just talkin'.  Next!

The 'guest' observers on here know who they are and they know exactly what is being referred to. Advent talk isn't a court room where people are under oath, so I don't need to name any names or provide any juicy details. All that needs to be known is that the co-founder of 3ABN has a problem in his attraction for very young females. His defenders know this too. They just hope it goes away because they know that it could bring him down, permanently. They also know that if they confront him on it, he will fire them...

[tinka]

So when might circumstances demand it?

Hi Bob, I have tried very hard to be reasonable in decisions for my self.
Back in EGW day it was very dangerous also I read for the milk, chickens, butter and eggs. If you read, disease was bad then and she insisted that all milk be boiled and etc for everthing else had to be watched. But even then. It is also diseased now along with generic putrid soy products. Nothing is the same and only worse.

But what I have discovered we must do as she says and pick only the best farm or organic food in clean animals or vegetables that we can away from all the pesticides and what ever else is no good.

I read and read until blue in the face about considering what is the right time and all I could do was evaluate what happens when we too early decide and much damage from too much protein in the diet or go all vegan.  Years ago Loma Linda did some studies on sending the soy milk to the poor countries. IN fact one was Haiti. It showed the poor babies in the orphanages, in cribs. toddlers, and very young age developing into being able to reproduce in less then teens. Children were losing their identities. IF you go to the fairs you will also see it in animals in livestock. Some having both of everything. I know personally of children with no growth, black spots on their brains and no growth in others. Seizures, from no fats, or sugar. brain damage from mothers on vegan diets. Absolutely for sure. my own daughter tried this trick and it took tremendous tremedous research from one of the best 10 doctors in the world on minerals and enzymes He also worked with MS. Our family suffered until we got educated on how this all works. We did not rest until we found away. I called this Dr. and told him what we expected and read cause after cause why seizures. 12 Dr's said there was no answer to our situation but medication. This Dr. said not many would go to this Length and be open minded enough to discover or believe what we suspected. HE also told us we were exactly right and he would guide us from there on in what we did. We brought it back to normal after 20 seizures an hr from birth. It took about 4 months of 24 hour care against the local Dr's wished of what we were doing to counter act this. It worked but we were under surveillance from Dr. the whole time as we were told we would have nothing but a vegetable. So he let us do it in reversable from the vegan diet that caused it while pregnant. The Dr. found it before the birth with blood test. And it happened. WE prayed much. The Dr. could not believe the reverse or "miracle"he called it.  I might add that a friend of our daughter, in fact a dentist did the same, the girls were the same age. but they would not go the route we took and at now 25 they have a beautiful beautiful almost vegetable in a wheel chair. She has the most beautiful hair that they keep perfect with ribbons and trinkets. Our granddaughter had more seizures per hour. They are amazed at the granddaughters vibrant 2 time mother of very healthy children and never a seizure after we got them stopped from how we delved into our situation. We were never one minute without that child in one of our arms with oxygen worrying if that was the last breath. You can imagine how we felt when at 3 month, her eyes came into focus from the back of her head and a little smile came at the corners of her most fragile mouth. Everyday we noticed a little better but it was an education hour by hour. So I am very well aware of diet. I have made it also a special part of my life to fix the most simplest foods the best I know how. We also have been vegetarian for many years. But have damaged my self by not being able to keep any calcium or potassium. After 3 Dr's. told me I must (Just like EGW) have a little poultry and fish. I was not able to make good diet for my self because of not liking the protein. I had been taking pills and decided just to eat a little fish instead. But somehow it all does not go well in my belief and upset. But I definitely also of which I did not know until I read that EGW also was allergic to beans. It did though take her 40 years to get off pork or when she really found more on the health message. I absolutely can not eat them except for young green beans.
I just do not like issue with so much about the food in churches especially when visitors come in. I guess I thought mostly we were to help people get off the unclean foods and then I am really keen on that. I try very hard to show people that they can cook from scratch and get foods to taste almost or like the real McCoy and then they do not think so badly if very tasty similitude's foods. Coming from a big family, I have had to find a way.  I am just not sure with all diseases that are here and everywhere that it is so good to give up eggs (if they are good). Of course we heal the dogs and cats with the eggs too when they get sick. Oh well, this is just my glitch and I fully realize that we are not going to miss heaven on the food of clean meats if we eat them, we just will not be transformed at the coming if we are still eating meat. I want so much to do that if I am still here when that time comes. I just want to see it all but then again don't know if I could stand the tempest of such a large family to worry about.  Don't mean to get anything going. But I have tried to understand that Let God do the demand time and not me to get anyone else confussed. Especially new converts. It is true we must prepare for the time that God will provide our food. Just don't make our selves weak unnecessarily before so we can with stand the tempest.

But as far as timing is concerned. I think it will be demanded when we cannot buy or sell. When certain foods are taken clear off the shelf. When there is no more transportation everyone starving, no gardens or no where to get food. Then the Christians as I read will be provided for. Some how we are to stay as healthy as we can or the best we can rationalize. Maybe I am wrong in all this but I have saw first hand many, many, many situations that are disgusting, and some even death has occurred. Unbelievable but true. I could name them but not on here. I see people that are not too well educated trying to follow the flock and do not even know how to do it and they are grey, shaking, and sallow looking and weak and sick. But on the other hand the people that have diet education, and able to have all good places to obtain and afford I would say do quite well. It is the poor that cannot and I do not see any favors in Adventist stores for the poor in pricing. Therefore I have learned from my mother and years of experience on how to put the natural food together. In fact I am working on a hot dog Right now ...that is edible.(smile) Good day Bob and thanks much for your reply and hope I have not offended anyone. I'm just an ol fuddy duddy about good food. It better taste good, smell good and look good or I am not eating it. (laugh) I really do believe what you are saying but not all can comply easy.

Oh and I was in south America where they cook the heads, eyes and feet, cones, I took a little walk to look at the town when time to eat supper. I was astonished when I returned about 11:00 at night ....and they waited for us. I was put in a very hard place..what do you think happened??? (laugh) laugh) We were with a very high political family in fact (president of Columbia years ago) (our oldest grandson is His descendant) and I will leave it there!!!!

OOpps forgot to spellcheck. My mind is starting to type in Phonics what I learned in 1st grade. (Oh no! smile)


  When Health Reform Becomes Health Deform

                                          Letter 37, 1901
     324. I have something to say in reference to extreme views of health reform. Health reform becomes health deform, a health destroyer, when it is carried to extremes. You will not be successful in sanitariums, where the sick
                                                                            203
are treated, if you prescribe for the patients the same diet you have prescribed for yourself and your wife. I assure you that your ideas in regard to diet for the sick are not advisable. The change is too great. While I would discard flesh meat as injurious, something less objectionable may be used, and this is found in eggs. Do not remove milk from the table or forbid its being used in the cooking of food. The milk used should be procured from healthy cows, and should be sterilized.  {CD 202.4}

Around 1989 or so I think I read about salmonella being in uncracked chicken eggs. Some were speculating that it was because of the feed, and others didn't think so.

It was about that time that I read in the paper about a new chicken processing plant. Feathers, beaks, and feet would go to another plant to be cooked down into chicken feed.

I think it was in 1993 that I ran across the mad cow crisis in Britain. Our media was totally silent about it, even though it was an international thing by that time. Russia had even initially refused to accept British beef as part of a food aid package, but still our media said nothing.

Eventually they identified the practice of feeding cows to cows as causing that problem.

Chicken aren't buzzards and cows aren't hogs. God didn't make them to eat that way. Human greed led to these blatant violations of the Creator's designs, and the results as far as cows go are history.

Given everything, I don't see how the circumstances aren't now, unless one either can't possibly replace animal products with other things or can secure animal products from sources that are prion and cancer free and are raised in ways that are in harmony with the Creator's designs.

Edited format only by Johann